Favorite Even-Numbered Trek Movie?

Wrath of Khan!

Hmm... yeah, got to agree. It was the best one... though 6, 8, and 4 (probably in that order) are very close behind.

It's a tough call. First Contact was pretty good, but it's just hard to beat seeing the Star Trek crew in 1980s Los Angeles. So I'll say Star Trek 4.

Kahn was my favorite followed by First Contact, then Undiscovered COuntry then voyage home

Voyage Home was the one I watched most often as a child, so it has a special place in my heart. It's the most re-watchable of the Trek flicks, methinks.

Wrath of Khan. But only by a hair over Undiscovered Country.

The Voyage Home is indeed great... but watch it again. Its not quite as good now, I'd say, as Undiscovered Country or Wrath of Khan...

I have watched in recently, about a month ago, and I still liked it. It's got staying power.

Yeah, I watched it again a few months ago after not having seen it in over six years, and I enjoyed it even more than when I was a kid.

Trek VI is good, but when I first heard about it I was expecting the crew to discover some cool new world. I didn't expect it to be a metaphor for something political. :D I didn't think it was a very good last movie for the original crew.

Yeah, I watched Trek 2, 4, and 6 last year... I liked 6 more than I remembered, 2 a bit more than I remembered, and 4 not quite as much... so I probably would say the order is 2, then 6, then 4. But all three are so good...

I just watched II again because I've had the directors edition for a while but I'd never watched it.

Originally posted by OB1
Yeah, I watched it again a few months ago after not having seen it in over six years, and I enjoyed it even more than when I was a kid.

Trek VI is good, but when I first heard about it I was expecting the crew to discover some cool new world. I didn't expect it to be a metaphor for something political. :D I didn't think it was a very good last movie for the original crew.

?

It had everything: Fighting, some of the best ship combat, and one of the most important events in the entire series. I thought it was perfect as an endgame.

Yeah, when I watched 6 last year I thought it was a GREAT last movie for the original crew! What more could you possibly want from a concluding movie for that group?

Something more dramatic and with more finality.

Startrek 4 was the best selling non sucky trek movie, 240,0000 dollars at the box office right smack in the middle of the 80's.

Its the funniest and most witty trek movie and its the only one without the enterprise involved. Everyone except the black lady had good lines.

First contact made 190,0000 but it was actually scary the first time you see it , As voyager didnt have any borgs at that time so it was still fresh and resserved for TNG.

Startrek 7 were you have kirk and picard together was a decent movie .

Startrek the motion picture and startrek 3 sucked cock for TOS, But Startrek 10 sucked the most of all of them and thats why it bombed lower then any trek movie before in sales.

A shitload of continuity errors and predictable story arch and just the fact Tom hardy (shinzon)was a pansy is what killed this movie. Stuart Bard has no place working in startrek as he clearly demonstrated his lack of respect or understanding of what a startrek movie is and he should go back to making John Wayne rip offs. John logan must have spilled coffee on the script or somthing because damn it sucked! No originality , poor lines, Butched continuity.Killing data in such a cheap undramatic manner was a disrespect to TNG if you want to see how it sopposed to be done go rewatch startrek2.

I think I could have done a better job then what they did.

Like WHAT? I'd say that its as good as a conclusion could be! I just can't think of anything that its lacking as a end... it was a great way to conclude the classic series.

The final movie for the original crew should have felt more like the original series, methinks. If you watch the original series you'll know what I'm talking about.

More adventure, less politics. I like Trek VI, but it felt more like a sci-fi Tom Clancy novel than a real Star Trek movie.

But the politics stuff is a big part of why its so good!

Not for the original series. DS9, sure. But not TOS.

But the movies are pretty different from the series... and in that movie it works very well.

Not if you're a huge fan of TOS and wanted something more akin to that for their final movie.

I watched all six original Trek movies, but hadn't seen much of any of the series before that... now I've seen some eps, but when I saw the movies the first time? Not much at all. And I've still not watched most of the original series... and if you can ignore the ... outdated ... look to the show its pretty good. I don't like the theme song all too much, though...

You should watch the episode "Space Seed" since it ties directly into Wrath of Khan.

I didn't see that one...

Well you should.

I have to disagree with you OBJuan, such an event HAD to be political. The very nature of peace talks is political. At least it was smart and realistically political. Overall, the idea of the original crew participating to bring peace with the Klingons was the best way to finish their adventures. After all, the Klingons were by far the most colorful adversaries of the Federation. And of course it took place during, and most definitely consciously mirrored, the collapse of America's most colorful adversary, the Soviet Union. It simply couldn't be done better.

Yeah yeah I know how it was politically relevant and everything, but I really don't think it was a good farewell to the original crew. If Generations had actually been a good movie and a nice farewell to the original cast then I would have absolutely no problems with Trek VI. It is a very good Trek flick, but there was no finality to it, no sense of culmination and farewell for the original crew. I suppose they didn't think that would be the last original crew movie, but still...

startrek 7 was great.

and it was about passing the torch not ending tos.

Huh? I thought that the ending was a great sendoff to the crew! I really don't understand how they could have made it much better... in the end they sail off into the sunset on their final voyage together. An appropriate ending, I'd say...

A little sunset send-off isn't enough. :p

There weren't many scenes that gave the impression of a final farewell for the crew, which is what it badly needed.

And ASM, Generations did a terrible job of "passing on the torch" from old crew to new. The only character from the original crew that in the movie for more than a few seconds was Kirk, and he wasn't even in most of the picture! Spock wasn't there, and Bones, Chekov, and Scotty were shown for just a few short minutes after they showed Kirk "die", and that was it! It was a complete failure for what it was supposed to do.

I agree about Generations, OB1... that was a pathetic conclusion. They should have just left it after TUC if that was the alternative...

And I'm sure that if the director and writers knew that Generations would have been such a pathetic farewell for the original crew, they would have changed some things with Trek VI.

I don't know... I think it would have been a fine conclusion if not for Generations...

Well then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You don't like politics in Trek, it seems... you must have hated DS9. :)

:roll2:

I like DS9 a lot, but it wasn't fitting for the last voyage of the original crew. If the movie was about the last voyage of the DS9 crew then it would have fitted perfectly. But it wasn't.

But I like politics, so I thought it was quite interesting... and appropriate, as mentioned, since the Klingons were the big enemy and they had to resolve that for TNG.

Originally posted by OB1
Yeah yeah I know how it was politically relevant and everything, but I really don't think it was a good farewell to the original crew. If Generations had actually been a good movie and a nice farewell to the original cast then I would have absolutely no problems with Trek VI. It is a very good Trek flick, but there was no finality to it, no sense of culmination and farewell for the original crew. I suppose they didn't think that would be the last original crew movie, but still...

Actually, I can understand where you're coming from, because VI did not end with a true note of finality, it ended with "The Enterprise is being decommissioned, and the crew will disperse and retire and go their merry way" and while I think that device in itself is a fine way to finish the series, the problem was, it had been done before. Several of the movies involved the crew being reunited for 'one last battle' after they had supposedly moved on with their lives, and in several cases recommissioned themselves after retirement. However, the reason I say VI was a wonderful endgame is not because of the very last scene but because of what their final mission was. Ending that long war was probably the most profound thing the Enterprise crew ever did.

As for Generations being a poor send-off for the original crew, I never got the impression that it was intended as a send-off for them. I always felt that it was specifically designed for Captain Kirk (Scotty and Chekov's presence were mere cameos) and Kirk died saving a planet from destruction, as he had done a thousand times before. Sure, he could have put up a better fight, but it could have ended in worse ways. I had kinda hoped Kirk would have been able to see the Enterprise-D though...

Generations is all about missed potential. If you look at is as a TNG movie then sure it might be alright, but it was supposed to be the final send-off for the original crew. It was just so disatisfying in so many ways.

Yeah... Generations wasn't completely awful, but it certainly didn't deal with the situation as well as it could have. I thought it was kind of trying to send off the original crew, again, and if it was it completely failed... and as for Kirk's death, it just seemed kind of pointless and while it was done trying to save a planet, like he'd done plenty of times before, it just didn't really seem right for him... oh well, the movie had plenty of other problems too.

Weltall, you are right that several times before they'd come out of retirement... but the last one did have a bit more finality to it, I'd say. And yes, the best part is that they managed to accomplish something they never thought they could that tied up the main plotline of the whole classic series...

The human/klingon conflict was not the main plotline of TOS.

But they were the main badguys, and they clearly weren't in TNG, and they had to explain that... and I'd say using the original crew is the best way...

The Romulans were the main bad guys in TOS.

Uh... I'd certainly think that the Klingons were...

Originally posted by OB1
The Romulans were the main bad guys in TOS.

No they weren't. The Romulans appeared in two episodes from TOS that I can recall. The Klingons appeared far more often even in TOS. And while the Federation/Klingon conflict was not the main story arc (there IS no main story arc) it was by far the most recurring theme in the series. And besides that, by the time STVI came about, TNG had already basically established that Federation/Klingon relations had dramatically changed sometime in the last 80 years.

Pretty much as I said... :)

You serious? I could have sworn that the Romulans were in more episodes than that...

Hmm, guess I shouldn't rely on my childhood memory so much anymore... :hmm:

I got the Star Trek Encyclopedia just a few days ago, the new color edition, for five dollars at a B&N clearance. So I kinda know a little again ;)

I don't have that, and I didn't see most of the classic episodes... but I do know that everyone has always identified the Klingons as the main enemies, including the actors... oh, and I have one book... something by Shatner, 'Star Trek Memories' or something?

Yeah, peanut butter. Mmmmm.

Yay, someone voted for peanut butter!

The Wrath of Khan was an awesome movie...one of the best sci-fi films ever...but I prefer the light-hearted, funny break away from the dry series as portrayed in The Voyage Home. It has a frickin' awesome soundtrack, and it's just a pleasure to watch...it's so much fun you don't have to only watch it with Trekkie fans!

Yeah, you can even watch it with non-nerds!

Yeah, it's got main-stream appeal, but Trekkies can still enjoy it.

Khan and Undiscovered Country are still better...

You take that back, ABF! You take it back now! Those are my #2 and #3 favorite ones, but Voyage kicks ass!!

I don't believe it!! Both OB1 and I are at this moment in agreement with Darunia! Has hell froze over?! Not that I know of! Are meteors at this very moment colliding somewhere in the universe? They must be, because nothing else can explain this phenomenon!!

I used to like Voyage Home most, but re-watching the three last year made me think that Khan was best, TUC second, and Voyage third. :)

*Great Rumbler, Darunia and OB1 form a Triple Entente*

*Mug ABF in the street; steal all his valuables and leave him unconscious in the dumpster with a tattoo reading "Voyage Home Kicks Khan's Ass!" in big letters.*

I don't think Voyage Home is a better movie than Wrath of Khan, just the more "fun" and rewatchable one.

The Voyage Home is actually the highest grossing Star Trek movie and the only one to make over 100 million dollars.

Yup.

But box-office numbers are so deceptive! They aren't generally adjusted for inflation... unless you do that I'd say they mean nothing.

But box-office numbers are so deceptive! They aren't generally adjusted for inflation... unless you do that I'd say they mean nothing.

Numbskull; that fact that they aren't adjusted for inflation is a boon for the newer films. The fact that an older film still out grossed the newer ones only adds to my point.

:haha:

ABF is so smart.

Yeah, sure... I bet that First Contact beat it if you include international box office numbers, but that's the only one that even had a chance... the others didn't do very well... mostly for good reasons. Nemesis, though... it was a very good movie. Deserved to do far better than it did... but even it will make money overall, and maybe even be a success, once you add in the international box office and DVD numbers...

:rolleyes:

Star Trek IV grossed a total of $109,713,132. (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek4.htm)

First Contact grossed a total of $92,027,888 (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek8.htm), and that's not even taking inflation into consideration!

Go here (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/search/?title=star%20trek&p=.htm) to see how the rest stack up to Trek IV. None of them passed the $100 million mark like Voyage Home did.

Nemesis was definitely not a success. It had a production budget of $60 million, an estimated marketing budget of $33 million, and it only made $43,126,102 domestically. That's pathetic. It is a pretty good movie, but Paramount was stupid enough to release it just a few days before The Two Towers.

If you took inflation into account The Voyage Home's gross would be about 180-190 million dollars.

That's why I said that Nemesis could be called a success if you include the international box office into the equasion! I heard it did pretty well there... obviously it failed in the US, but the US isn't the whole world. :)

Where did you hear that it did well outside the U.S.??

Okay, not successful, but it WILL make money.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/yearly/2002b.htm

$44 million US plus $24 million international is $68 million... add DVD sales and its not going to lose money for Paramount. :)

It'll probably break even, but I don't think it'll make much of a profit.

I think it had a total cost of between $65-70 million, so just the box office totals got it to right around break-even. The DVD sales will push it over the top. As I said, it won't exactly be a hit... but it won't be a money-loser either. No Trek film has lost money in the end...

Now, the question is -- what should be next? Another film with the TNG crew? A DS9 or Voyager movie? A mixture movie with people from several crews (TNG, DS9, Voyager...)? A Enterprise movie? A all-new crew?

And when should it come out? Should they wait a while?

I really don't know... maybe they should wait a few years again like they did for Nemesis, but for the crew... I'd really like to see a DS9/Voyager movie. Combo if you must (with some TNG people I'm sure) since I very much doubt either one will get a movie all to itsself...

Oh please no. Voyager must stay dead.

They might go with the original crew prequel movie that takes place at Star Fleet Academy. Paramount has been saying that they'd make that one for a while now.

I think it had a total cost of between $65-70 million, so just the box office totals got it to right around break-even.

Actually, no. When you add advertising costs it pushes the cost of the movie to about 93 million dollars.

I don't believe you're bogged down arguing in these dumb statistics. Star Trek IV is the best Trek film, period. There, I solved it for you.

They'd better not make a Voyager movie. No gigantic budget could make it worth watching. The Trek-movie industry is in the same dire straits as Nintendo...they don't want to give the audience what they want. They know whats best for us, and we should cater to it.

It's a true shame that we can't resurrect Deforest Kelly and roll out a few good classic Trek films...but perhaps a big blending of several casts would be cool. If not, they should give TNG one more go at least(or was Nemesis their last?).

Voyager wasn't as unpopular as you think...

And Trek is okay right now, but it won't really get great again until they get rid of Berman and Braga...

All I know is that I hate Voyager, and OB1 does too...and if there is ANY power in the universe strong enough to unite us, it must be for good reason. Voyager sucked. This is evident. Do not fight it.

Oh, because of course because Darunia says so it is so!

Because ABF says it isn't so, it must be so.

I may not understand why so many people hate Voyager, but I'm not saying that just because I like it it should be everyone's favorite Trek series or something... its clearly an opinion matter. I don't know why Janeway makes people hate her, but I feel like that for Archer, who some people like, so its clearly a matter of opinion.

Voyager is the reason why nobody watched Enterprise even at the beginning. Voyager is extremely unpopular amongst the Trek fan community, and most people simply stopped watching Trek during Voyager's lifespan.

Then why did it, if I remember correctly, get better ratings than DS9 or Enterprise almost all the time? :)

Clearly it has a fanbase.

You have statistics to back up such a bold claim, of course.

Oh come on, have you missed how Enterprise ratings are so low that it might even be cancelled, something Voyager never had to worry about? And as for DS9, it had a loyal fanbase but not wide popular appeal, which Voyager did have... Voyager was probably more popular among less hardcore fans.

No Trek series ever had as good ratings as TNG, and Voyager got very unpopular near the end of its run. So unpopular, in fact, that very few people bothered to even given Enterprise a chance.

Yes, that is true among hardcore fans of the series...

Oh come on, have you missed how Enterprise ratings are so low that it might even be cancelled, something Voyager never had to worry about?

Hey buddy, I'm not defending Enterprise or DS9...they all pale next to TNG. I'm just bashing Voyager as weak, politically correct, and all-around poor. Janeway was a lousy, annoying bitch of a captain. They sacrafice good writing and plot for a nod towards politically correctness. If they'd not been stopped, who knows how far it would've gone...an openly gay captain?

ABF: If Voyager's ratings were good near the end then they wouldn't have had to resort to lame gimmicks in hope of getting better ratings (like that terrible The Rock episode).

True... but still, I really don't think its ratings dropped as low as Enterprise's have been. They certainly weren't anywhere near as good as the ratings heights of TNG, though... but that is Trek's all-time high...

Oh, and DS9 was always popular among a lot of Trek fans but it just didn't have as much of a popular audience as Voyager. I believe that Voyager got higher ratings... though I'm not sure of course.

No Trek series had as bad ratings as Enterprise... well perhaps TOS did. People just got sick of Trek after Voyager.

And Enterprise didn't exactly do much to raise much of their confidence.

Yea, in the TV Guide article I read, they promised all of this new originality...how it'd be nothing like the last few stinkers. How the ship would be like realistic and less flamboyantly designed; cold and gritty like a submarine...still looks pretty colorful and fake to me, though. It also promised episodes and plots where the Prime Directive wouldn't fuck up the fun. Promised more action and all kinds of shit. From what I've seen, it hasn't delivered.

How many episodes have you seen? I've seen most of them and there really were some good episodes in seasons 1 & 2, mainly 2. The Mind Meld episode, the cogenitor episode, the Borg episode (which directly tied into First Contact), the first Vulcans on earth episode, and a few more. On the whole the show isn't that great but there have been some good episodes.

And the ship does look a lot more a sub than the previous Trek ships. But I really don't like that. I miss the bright and happy designs from TOS and TNG. :D

I watched most all of season 1 of Enterprise and probably over half of season 2... haven't watched either s3 ep though. I don't know... just haven't gotten around to it. I will watch it sometimes but the show doesn't make me want to watch it every week... for instance, most of the S2 eps I did watch are ones I downloaded from the college DC hub.

I haven't really watched any shows every week since... hmm, last summer maybe? Maybe a year ago...

Neat.

I confess to not having watched it in a while. When's it on, anyway?:D

:rolleyes:

Oh brother...

I watched the second half of tonight's episode... it was interesting. Not bad.

Rather than answer the simple question, he needs to revert to his sarcastic self. Typical OB1ism. And there we were getting along and everything for about a week. Oh, well back to this...

*Mobilizes 65,000 Goron conscripts*

Oh come on, Darunia, that's a ridiculous question...

And anyway, startrek.com has episode summaries of every Trek episode ever...

Like ABF said before, Star Trek is on at the same time as it has been on for the past decade or so.

I didn't really like tonight's episode much. Cool to see LeVar Burton direct, though.

I missed the first half, but I think I can guess what happened... :)

The aliens (containment guys) seemed somewhat stereotypically violent, but at least the reason was okay.

It wasn't a great ep of Trek, but it was fine... and Archer wasn't himself so he wasn't there to be annoying! Always a plus...


Oh, and did you know that in the original American version of 'The Weakest Link' (when Anne Robinson was the host) the highest total ever reached was the one where some Star Trek actors were on it? LeVar Burton won, I believe...

Alright...last night...I've narrowed it down to being on Wednesday evenings some time.

ITS ONLY BEEN IN THE SAME EXACT TIMESLOT FOR TEN STRAIGHT YEARS!!!

Plus, we've only said it two or three times now... nope, I have no clue...

Originally posted by A Black Falcon
I missed the first half, but I think I can guess what happened... :)

The aliens (containment guys) seemed somewhat stereotypically violent, but at least the reason was okay.

It wasn't a great ep of Trek, but it was fine... and Archer wasn't himself so he wasn't there to be annoying! Always a plus...


Oh, and did you know that in the original American version of 'The Weakest Link' (when Anne Robinson was the host) the highest total ever reached was the one where some Star Trek actors were on it? LeVar Burton won, I believe...

It was actually about an extinct alien race that created a virus which turned other creatures into their species in a way to preserve their race. You know what happened a the end.

Yeah, I knew that... there is the dead race that made the virus and the alive one that is going to extreme measures to try to stop it...

I thought the episode sucked. Too Voyager-ish in its lameness.

Yeah, it did feel somewhat Voyager-ish... that's probably why I liked it. :)

You're so weird. :stupid:

*Declares Formal State of War on ABF*

Smartass...it hasn't been in the EXACT same spot for 10 years; it's on UPN now.

Same time slot.

....which IS...???!?

Wednesday evenings!

Uhh, Darunia... you are stupid.

UPN.

This is Trek's tenth season on UPN.

So ten years is completely accurate.

Remember... seven of Voyager, now three of Enterprise, all in the same timeslot...

8 pm (EST), Wednesday, on UPN. For the tenth straight season.

And OB1, there's nothing wrong with liking Voyager's style. :)

*in Bones' voice*

Like hell there isn't!

Enterprise won't be as good as Voyager, because Voyager's first few years were actually pretty good, but it could improve a lot if it keeps on track with decent eps like that one...

It's like you live in some sort of bizarro world where everything's the opposite of this world.

Voyager sucks, ABF, get used to it! Maybe it was just that they had a woman captain who was an annoying bitch, or that they never did anything particularly exciting...well, nothing above-averagely exciting anyway. Waste of a Trek franchise.

You hated Janeway, I liked her... that's just an opinion you know and is hardly something that objectively makes it bad any more than my hating Archer makes Enterprise bad...

And as for 'nothing exciting', that makes no sense... they did just as much as any other series, except DS9 of course... for 'excitement' that war takes the cake I'd have to say, though not really in a good way...

You hated Janeway, I liked her... that's just an opinion you know and is hardly something that objectively makes it bad any more than my hating Archer makes Enterprise bad...

And as for 'nothing exciting', that makes no sense... they did just as much as any other series, except DS9 of course... for 'excitement' that war takes the cake I'd have to say, though not really in a good way (for the characters)...

:rolleyes:

Is there an echo in here.

So how about this week's episode? I actually watched the whole thing this week... :)

It was alright, but not that great. Typical Enterprise...

I forgot to watch it...goddamit; I'll hafta make a point of watching it next week.

I skiped the last two weeks out of no interest.

Ive been watching stargate SG-1 reruns which are more interesting then recycled startrek plots we have seen many times over.

Extinction is a rip off a TNG episode were Geordi is turned into a alien,The sex slave on the last episode waisnt sexy.

Why cant the writers stick to "founding of the federation" and its untold story,why do they need to use tried plots and then squeeze them into enterpise.

The best ENT shows so far are the ones that didnt go way out but tackled interesting issues like the Andorian and Vulcan conflict.
Stupid episodes like shuttle pod 1 and unexpected were more fun then shoot it up garbage like Shockwave or Exspanse.