Halo PC

Does anyone else have it?
I think it would be fun to have a TC multiplayer match

While I am fully aware the PC version is superior to the XBox version (though controls are debatable, AND I'M LEAVING IT AT THAT DON'T START ANYTHING ABF AND OB1), I already have that game once over and won't be getting it again. Multiplayer may have some extra stuff, but I'll wait for Halo 2 to get that and then some. Single player as far as I can tell still sucks, so I'm not getting two copies of suck in that regard. Besides, I can play online with the XBox version anyway and you'd be the only person I know who has the PC version anyway.

Ever seen the Master Chief without the cyber suit? I tell ya, if I woke up looking like that, I'd just run towards the nearest living thing, and kill it.

I already have the Xbox version and my comp probably couldn't handle it anyway.

The PC version has vastly better aiming accuracy since it uses a mouse. The reviews do say that this makes the game a bit easy, though, since it wasn't adjusted from the consoles... but the only changes in the game are more multiplayer maps and stuff and the removal of the cooperative mode. Probably not worth getting if you already have it for X-Box, I'd think... unless you're a big fan. :)

Oh... speaking of new games, I went to the mall today. Went in with $48 and left with $6, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, and Mischief Makers for N64. :)

The PC version has vastly better aiming accuracy since it uses a mouse.

Let's not start that again...

Mischief Makers for N64.

Ah, Mischief Makers, a fine game indeed.

I didn't talk about better or worse. I just stated a fact. There's a difference there...

Oh, and Mischief Makers is a pretty good game... when I saw it ($10...) I knew I had to get it. Don't think I've seen it for sale used before... and its one of the other very few sidescrollers on the N64, and a Treasure game... how could I resist? :)

I often seem to end up getting N64 games when I go to the mall... probably because so many good ones are $15 and under and I never have much money... I saw a bunch I'd like to get, but that was definitely #1. Second would have been Extreme-G... $5, but I really only needed one N64 game.

I need to get Mischief Makers, but sadly I can only find the frickin' Japanese version! Don't get me wrong, I'm aware there's likely not much heavy reading involved, but still I'd like to be able to read what is there. I'm not sure if this is just a local thing or not, but rental store or used game store, all they have are Japanese versions of that game around here.

How odd... its not a super text-heavy game, but there is a story and it definitely helps to be able to read the controls... or read a FAQ... to figure out how to play. Its somewhat unique. :)

Oh, and isn't it kind of a pain to get your system to run Japanese games? You need that special screwdriver that opens the N64...

Now I must find Goemon's Great Adventure... sure, I beat it, but I want to own it! It was great... I'd get Mystical Ninja too if I ever saw it...

Though of course the #1 game I would always buy on sight, but bet I'll never see, is Ogre Battle 64.

Actually, a good number of the rental store versions at least have been... altered... with a screwdriver or something...

I'm sure I'll find a US version eventually though.

Halo PC is actually inferior to the X-Box version because they left out the single best mode of the game: co-op. That and you'll need a super-powerful PC to run the game at a decent resolution and a decent framerate, which is completely ridiculous considering how the game wasn't even that great looking when it came out on the X-Box two years ago. Bad port.

It's actually not that hard to get a Japanese N64 cart to work on an American system. Just cut off the little notches on the back and it'll fit.

I did that with a Japanese Sonic cart for my Genesis. It looked pretty pathetic after I butchered it, but at least it worked! :D

I have a Japanese baseball game [import] and it came pre-cut. It looks crude, but it works okay.

You thought co-op was good? Co-op for me just meant TWO people got bored with the repetition instead of one. Multi is certainly the greatest aspect for most people I know.

I thought the single-player was boring, but actually found the co-op mode to be very fun. My dad and I played through the entire game.

Yeah, I know there are some who really seem to enjoy it. That just hasn't been the case with me or any of my friends. I mean, it's still a game played among friends and such. Generally it's very hard to screw that up and make it boring because most of the fun is on the controller end if you catch my drift.

However, generally my friends and relatives would rather "kill all humans" than trek through the game's single player mode with a friend. They just get bored really quickly and don't make much of an attempt to get into the teamwork spirit of it. Then again, I too found single player boring even with friends so I couldn't really blame them. We just stick with the one reason most everyone I know gets the game, for multiplayer.

Hey don't get me wrong-- I really don't like Halo that much at all. However, the only part that I enjoyed for a little while was co-op. The regular deathmatch is alright, but really sucks in comparison to the best PC FPS's. Why play Halo multi when I could be playing Battlefield instead?

For me the only reason is "because my friends suck and don't have that game yet", well except you. We should play against each other some time. I must warn you though that I REALLY suck at Battlefield. Perfect Dark also blows Halo away in multi if you ask me. Anyway, Halo is a game pretty much everyone I know has a copy of, so when we get together, we play that. It's not like the multiplayer sucks or anything. It's got a decent handful of various modes and decent customization, and an average number of weapons. The vehicles are also nice as well as the whole limited weapons thing to kinda give people who just spawned a chance (though Battlefield wins there of course, but I explained the prob with that...). Basically, Halo is good enough for the whole interaction with friends thing to really be fun.

I'll say this though. My main circle of friends has finally gotten sick of Halo (well, I did a few weeks before them but anyway...), and as such that game remains unplayed. SC2 is the thing we all play now.

PD's multi is so great because of the insane amount of customization allowed. No other FPS has as many customization options as PD has. I love using smart slow-mo and one-shot kills. I used to play like that all of the time. It also helps with the bad framerate. :D

Frame rate's not that bad unless you set off about a gazillion bombs, like I ALWAYS do, because that's how it happened to me!

PD in my humble opinion is the best FPS I ever played for either PC or console, except for it's lack of online play and a map builder (and the explosive slowdown). Yes, I prefer it to Time Splitters 2. That game just didn't quite compare. Thing about TS2 is they tried too hard and it shows. Even if Perfect Dark Zero was just a graphically enhanced port of PD64 with online play and a map builder, I'd snatch it instantly. Great thing though is it's a whole new game on top of it being PD. It's not just the customization (and yes, smart slo mo is great, SO much better than standard slo mo because smart gives ya the speed right when it gets boring, which is when no one's around to make things all matrixy), it's the awesome weapons, the cool maps (I don't care what anyone says, some of those PD maps totally owned the GE maps, like that one in the huge cavern with the floating moving platform and such... I can't remember any of their names....), and the various gameplay modes. All I can hope for is they totally make it far and beyond even the coolness of this.

I'm hoping for the ability to customize weapons to the point where you can say whether or not doubles are allowed, whether or not a weapon will respawn (meaning you can have just one farsight and no one else can have one until they kill the guy who got it first), add in limited lives (the one thing they removed from the GE engine...), and most importantly, be able to turn off certain weapon modes on any weapon. That way, a mine might function JUST as a detector, or more importantly, you can have proximity mines and disable their detectors.

Well, I better stop now. That game won't be out until the XBox 2 is out, so no point in getting all worked up about it.

Unless you only played two-player multi the framerate was crap.

Now let's not start this again. I had no prob with 4 people and 8 sims running around. Things clipped along well enough for me. It was better than GE at any rate, which couldn't handle more than 2 in some of it's levels at all. We already decided there's nothing further here than personal opinion on the whole thing.

Anyway...

So, who's interested in Halo 2? I myself will end up getting it purely because everyone else I know is. Peer pressure? Kinda. It's because it's the only FPS I know they will also have so I can play against them with it, as opposed to playing against total strangers (or worse, you people...).

I'll probably get Halo 2 since it seems like it's going to be a lot better than the first.

Then you have no problem with crap framerates, DJ. Nothing wrong with that. 4 players with 8 bots is insanely slow, and not even ABF could handle such a framerate. ABF, think XG2 for the N64 but ten times as bad.

Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Though of course the #1 game I would always buy on sight, but bet I'll never see, is Ogre Battle 64.

I saw Ogre Battle at Amazon actually. It is about $35 used, though, and I'm sure you don't want to pay that much. It's probably my favorite N64 game, though, so I'd say any price is worth it.

OB1: Let's not start that again.

DMiller: I've heard good things, but I have no idea which of the Ogre Battle games I should get first. Anyone played any of them other than "Person of Lordly Calibur"? I did see it at Vintage Stock for $25, which is cheaper than eBay at least.

I played the SNES game, March of the Black Queen, but that was only after I had played the N64 game so I didn't enjoy it much. I imagine you'd like the SNES game better if you play it before the N64 game.

Halo 2 and Killzone are really the only FPS's I'm looking forward to at the moment. I guess Killzone has more hype for me at the moment, perhaps because of the unknown factor. It seems to be taking all the good bits from Halo and Brute Force and, reportedly, doing it right.

Perhaps whatever Free Radicals come up with next will be worth a look. I'm hoping they ditch the whole TimeSplitters idea, and work on a more 'serious' FPS. TS3 would still be nice, though. :)

I remember the one time I saw a used copy of Mega Man 4 for GB it was $40... and the one time I saw MM3-GB it was $35. Just too much, even for games that good... though if it'd been MM5 for GB I well might have spent that much. :)

As for Ogre Battle 64... if I see it in a store and have the money I'd get it. Online? Too much of a hassle...

And as for framerates... all we need to do is agree again that OB1's standards for good framerates are far, far higher than the average person's. I have PD, but I don't think I've ever played 4 players with 8 bots... don't think I've played more than 3 players, actually.

Perhaps whatever Free Radicals come up with next will be worth a look. I'm hoping they ditch the whole TimeSplitters idea, and work on a more 'serious' FPS. TS3 would still be nice, though.


Give them a break. They made TS2 is less than a year. Same goes for TS1. If they take half the amount of time to work on TS3 that Rare worked on PD then we'd have one of the best FPS's ever, methinks.

And DJ, it's perfectly fine that you found PD's multiplayer framerate acceptable, but for most of us it was unbearable in four-player mode with any bots.

And as for framerates... all we need to do is agree again that OB1's standards for good framerates are far, far higher than the average person's. I have PD, but I don't think I've ever played 4 players with 8 bots... don't think I've played more than 3 players, actually.


This coming from the person who whined about XG2's multiplayer framerate. :rolleyes: You hypocrite. XG2 has nothing on PD when it comes to choppy multiplayer framerates. Try playing four player mode with eight bots and you'll see what I mean.

XG2 multiplayer? Huh? I've never even played XG2 in multiplayer mode... and haven't played the N64 version much, actually. Just enough to know that it does have framerate issues.

:erm:

You have complained about XG2's framerate several times in the past. Single player or multiplayer, whichever. The N64 version.

Yeah, the N64 one has a poor framerate... makes playing it hard, since its a fast game where bad framerates can kill you... unlike some genres where occasional bad framerates aren't as bad.

FPS's running at 5-20 fps is pretty damn bad.

I just played halo for the first time today!

I love that tank!


I find it easier to simpily bunt my enemies then shoot them.

Yes, hitting guys with the gun is significantly more fun than just shooting them.

Its really hard. I played it a few times... I did really bad. Even worse than I usually do at FPSes... of course, that's not saying a lot. :)

And I don't remember Perfect Dark ever being anywhere near 5 fps. No way.

The best example of slowdown I can think of? Two player Rush 2049. Track six.

Or three or four player Rush 2049 in stunt mode...

Or is the Dreamcast version better?

I have PD, but I don't think I've ever played 4 players with 8 bots... don't think I've played more than 3 players, actually.

You're making this easier for me than Darunia has, ABF. You admitted that you've never played four-player PD yet you proclaim that "And I don't remember Perfect Dark ever being anywhere near 5 fps. No way."

Gee, maybe that's because you never played four-player mode! :bang:

PD in four player mode with eight bots is slower than Rush's multi.

Then it would be slow, but not unplayable... I know some people complained about the framerates in, for instance, PD's co-op and counter-op modes (ones I have played), and parts of the single player... never noticed anything...

I find Halo does slow down a little bit not very much but enough to notice.

Halo is better then Goldeneye but I find that GE was still more fun.

Um, so you say GE was more fun than Halo, but Halo is still better? How does THAT work? The game that's more fun wins the "better" contest!

PD beats GE all over this country though :D.

I agree that PD is better than GE, but not many others seem to think that way... I don't know why. Nostalgia?

I'd say many others DO think that way, many of them here. However, I know how you could get that impression going around naustalgia sites where people talk about the "good old days" and finding everyone dissing greatly upon PD. I know a few TC members (who sadly don't come around any more) think GE was the better game for some reason. They cite better level design, though personally I disagree.

In any case, PD became a million seller pretty quickly after it was released, even in Japan, so that shows it certainly had a lot of popularity.

The reason I liked GE better than PD was because GE was a much simpler game, and was less like PC FPSers. Goldeneye was the game to play my freshman year of college, and even people who had never played the game before got into it. PD wasn't like that. I enjoyed PD, but no one really enjoyed it enough to play multiplayer. However, I didn't really enjoy the multiplayer much when people did play it with me because it felt like I was playing a PC FPS. You died a few seconds after first getting shot in the game. There were no "straffing battles" in PD. Had I rented PD before I bought it I probably wouldn't have ended up buying the game. The only reason I bought it was because it was the successor to GE and I thought I'd enjoy it.

Maybe you played it wrong :D, because I ended up in a lot of strafing battles. If you died so quickly, you could have turned up the health or something (though I found the health fine where it was). Maybe it was just the people you played it with. Eh, anyway I ended up in a lot of cool things. I have more PD battle stories than GE ones now, all hilarious.

Why, I remember a time when I was playing stationary king o' the hill in the temple against a team of sims with a friend. We had the thing covered and mined the walls outside the hill and had a turret or two and some weapons. I had a rocket launcher too (boom boom, yes yes) :D. Anyway, so we were racking up points since they just couldn't get in. Then, I happened to accidently target my friend with a rocket... I fired it moving backwards so it ended up travelling kinda slow, but still my friend ened up running around the edge of that small room with a rocket following close behind. Eventually, I end up getting too close to this chase and see it heading towards me, so I end up running around in the same circle. I was all like "eeeek! exploding death!". So, we ended up screaming and running for a good few minutes. Suddenly, a sim runs into the room (they managed to destroy the mines it would seem, the way sims normally destroy them :evil: ). This sim picked just the wrong time to come in, because the very entrance it ran into was the one that rocket was passing by. BOOM! Of course, it all worked out EXACTLY as I planned it :D.

Stuff like that couldn't happen in PD :D. I'm not sure what you mean by simpler game. It didn't have nearly as many options, but you can just ignore those options and use premade games just like in GE. The game PLAYS exactly like GE, so I don't see why PD isn't a pick up and play game (friends who never played it easily got into it, just like with GE). They only need to learn one more new move, the ability to switch gun functions, and they can go on. The other stuff, like the quick menu and so on, are fully optional and can just be ignored so you can instead just use the GE style of switching weapons.

Eh, oh well... To each their own I suppose. To me, PD just totally ownzered GE because it was everything GE had and a giant thing full of "more", and other non-corporeal concepts like that too. To you, it was.... sorry I have a hard time seeing why any aspect of PD was really a problem... you can just ignore all the extras and play GE style...

I agree with Dmiller GE didnt feel like a pc FPS it felt a little simpiler.

Halo isnt that dificult to control but it requires alot more skill and experience to enjoy.

The only thing that makes Halo better is the vehicles and more variety in multiplayer options. The sniper is a little better to use in Halo, The Graphics and animation is better of course.

Just somthing wierd that seems that GE was still more fun.

Perfect dark I never played enough to compare but it didnt captivate me like goldeneye did.

I think a lot of people were turned off by PD's extreme customization in multiplayer. When I first got the game I brought over a long-time GE fan that I knew and he simple couldn't stand it because of the complex menus and near-unlimited options in the game. It's better than GE in every possible way, but some people just couldn't stand all of the options available. It's so weird.

Then it would be slow, but not unplayable... I know some people complained about the framerates in, for instance, PD's co-op and counter-op modes (ones I have played), and parts of the single player... never noticed anything...

Even PD's co-op wasn't nearly as slow as four-player mode with eight bots. Not even close. But that was slow, much slower than Rush 2049 (N64) or XG2.

that was bassically what scared me of Perfect dark was the overwhelming amount of menu options when you just want to go in and shoot it up fast.

When you just want to go in and shoot it up fast, as you say, use "quick play". It has a large list of premade games. Just have all the people you want to play pop in and pick a pre-made scenario.

Well maybe I did notice something in co-op, but no way did it make the game unplayable, or any less fun...

And saying that a game is BAD because it has more options is just one of the most bizarre things imaginable... 'GE has better level design' at least makes sense... even if I think its wrong... but 'it has more options so its bad'? Huh??? For one, the game plays almost exactly the same as GE! More complex? Barely! In gameplay depth its got nothing on many PC FPSes... and its got the great detail of multiplayer options... and bots! GE lacking bots makes its multiplayer nowhere near as good, no question... it just adds so, so much to the game to have bots! GE multi needed people to play with... which just isn't that great a requirement for a FPS.

Something can be bad if it has more options and those options aren't organized efficiently. I think that was part of the problem. The pre-set games just didn't seem too much fun and it took forever to go through all those menus to set up your own game. I really can't explain too well why just about everyone I know liked GE better than PD. Maybe it can be attributed to nostalgia, but I just know that we gave Perfect Dark a lot of play before we finally went back to Goldeneye.

I thought the options WERE organized very effiectively, as best as can be expected when you aren't using a mouse to change them at any rate. It CERTAINLY is a much better alteration than Halo or TS2 though. Having to go back to the main menu just to adjust your own game, rather than PD's ability to customize even the premade games RIGHT there at that menu, just gets annoying. Yes I understand how having lots of options badly organized can be frustrating, but as I said, I thought they were well organized. All the things you could want to adjust are on one simple menu. It's actually like an expanded GE menu really. It's got level select, character select, and all the other options. You didn't have to move all over all sorts of different menus or anything. If it was weapon selection, the one thing I can actually imagine taking a while, use one of the premade weapon setups. There's plenty enough and you can select them as quickly as in GE.

Sorry, I still don't see the problem. The only way that menu could have been more organized is if it was mouse driven, which it won't be.

Oh, and lest I forget, I loved how the character you picked had more than just size to it. Bigger meant faster and smaller meant slower, so you couldn't just be the shortest character and have full advantage ala GE. You would have the bad point of moving slower as well. I tended to pick a medium size character (like my body/head combo that looks very much like James Bond), but some, such as lazy for instance, always picked Mr. Blonde since he was the fastest character.

Well maybe I did notice something in co-op, but no way did it make the game unplayable, or any less fun...


It didn't make it unplayable, but it definitely made it less fun. When you're trying to shoot a guy in the head (I don't like to use auto-aim, remember) but you can't because of the damn framerate, it certainly does make things less fun.

Auto-aim doesn't even help you get head shots though. It only helps you get one kind of shot, the chest shot. The second you aim for yourself, auto-aim is disabled until the aim button is released.

Right, but I always like to get headshots which is pretty difficult in co-op or four player split screen. With auto-aim things would probably be less of a pain since it's so much easier to aim, but I don't like using auto-aim.

It's not easier since auto-aim only helps you when you aren't using the controlled aim button, like when you run through a room spraying it with bullets or something to keep them behind something while you grab that rocket, spin around, use controlled aim to shoot at their feet and watch the boom.

However, if you happen to have a weapon that kills even in a chest shot, like a charged mauler, then auto-aim is VERY convenient. However, some find it cheap. Since anyone who wants to can use it, plus those who depend too much on auto aim never develop real aiming skills, which are needed the REST of the time, I find it's perfectly acceptable to use it. Generally, I tend to go back and forth depending on the type of match. If I keep it on when I really am going for head shots then auto-aim can throw me off often enough to be annoying. If I am in a match with maulers, or perhaps shotguns, then I'll turn it on.

I never use the aim button unless I'm using a sniper scope, so what you said doesn't apply to me. I aim very well without auto-aim in PD when the framerate is decent.

The aim button in PD? Needed in some cases, but the auto-aim deals with most of the issues of gamepads as well as is possible.

If you aren't using auto-aim, OB1, and complain about a problem that is a direct result of not using it, why are you complaining?

Because I really hate using auto-aim in all FPS's, and in PD it's alright most of the time.

I really don't want to start this again... but analog sticks are just way too imprecise for aiming in a FPS for me to be able to turn off the auto-aim in console games. On PC of course I wouldn't have it on.

I think both Perfect Dark and Goldeneye had their strengths and weaknesses.

Playing a 4-player deathmatch, I think Goldeneye definately came out on top, IMO. If you only had one other friend, then I would certainly pick Perfect Dark.

Both single player games were comparable in quality, albeit offering a somewhat different experience.

And PD's co-op had too much slowdown for me to handle, so I didn't bother with it.

Oh, and both are better than Halo.

:)

Whether you liked co-op or not, you can't possibly count it being bad as a point for GE in any way shape or form because PD HAD the feature at least and GE did NOT have it. PD wins no matter HOW much co-op may have sucked in one's opinion by default in this matter. Same with bots. One may complain about them slowing it down, but you can't make that a point for GE at all because GE doesn't even have them, but PD does! You might say they suck so bad they are equal, but you can't possibly say an added optional feature makes a game worse for having it. (Well, unless that feature is the "destroy the universe" button...)

What's wrong with PD in 4P mode as opposed to 2P mode? I have yet to play any FPS game where it doesn't get supremely better with more players. The sheer chaos of PD with 4 players is just great. If I could find one fault in PD that GE doesn't have, it's this. 2 of the mine types have mine detectors built into them. While you can still use remote mines, and that's still fun, without the detector, I must say it's rather annoying to know I can't play a game with proxy mines without knowing they can detect them using that very item. That pretty much means I have to hide them VERY well or distract them enough that they can't use detect or kill them before they get a detector. Well, there are plenty of ways around it, plus the added element of strategy there. It just would have been nice to have proxies without sensors. Still, that being the only fault I can find where GE does better, I do believe PD wins completely.

Keep this in mind. I still love GE, but after PD totally schooled it I barely ever even touch it any more.

DJ, nostalgia almost always wins against more features... we've all guilty of it with some games...

Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Same with bots. One may complain about them slowing it down, but you can't make that a point for GE at all because GE doesn't even have them, but PD does!

Bots were the thing that made PD's 2-player death match better than GE's.

You might say they suck so bad they are equal, but you can't possibly say an added optional feature makes a game worse for having it.

Who said PD was worse for having it? I merely pointed out that PD having a co-op mode was of no advantage over GE, as I didn't bother playing it.

What's wrong with PD in 4P mode as opposed to 2P mode?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with 4player PD (until now, it slowed to a crawl..), just that 4player GE was much more fun.

Keep this in mind. I still love GE, but after PD totally schooled it I barely ever even touch it any more.

I don't touch either of them!! :woah:

What's wrong with PD in 4P mode as opposed to 2P mode? I have yet to play any FPS game where it doesn't get supremely better with more players. The sheer chaos of PD with 4 players is just great. If I could find one fault in PD that GE doesn't have, it's this...


PD in four-player mode with more than maybe one bot makes it very slow, and overall the game runs slower than GE. Still, I definitely prefer PD.

I really don't want to start this again... but analog sticks are just way too imprecise for aiming in a FPS for me to be able to turn off the auto-aim in console games. On PC of course I wouldn't have it on.

So this is how it is: You really suck with a console controller but I do not, so I don't need auto-aim. See how simple that is?

Nope. I'm just bad as FPSes... :)

Especially with a dual analog controller.

Dual analog? Uhh... I've played a couple hours (at most) of Halo multiplayer and maybe five minuites of Red Faction on PS2... that's it for dual-analog FPSes. And on N64, I just have PD... and have played Goldeneye. Not in a few years, of course, but I have played it.

In PC FPSes I can cope with the single-player modes, generally in easy difficulty, but multi? I am really, really bad, and they don't intrest me anywhere near enough to make me want to get good. Just not too interesting for me... and as for GE and PD I've played them a little in multiplayer, but not much. When I do play multiplayer console games there are just so many games I'd rather play...

Dual or single analog, I meant.

I'd say GE slowed down the same amount as PD at 4 player, possibly more (until you added sims, but you can't count that against PD because GE couldn't do 4p with sims at all).

In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally found PD more fun than GE at any player number.

I forgot how slow GE's four-player mode was, but its single player was smoother. But yeah, I definitely prefer PD in single and multiplayer.

Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
I'd say GE slowed down the same amount as PD at 4 player, possibly more (until you added sims, but you can't count that against PD because GE couldn't do 4p with sims at all).

In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally found PD more fun than GE at any player number.

Without Sims, GE's 4-player mode was better than PD's.

With sims, PD's 4-player mode was nigh on unbearable. S'why I prefer GE for 4 player mode.

Anyhoo, when you have 3 friends over for deathmatch, it's more fun without sims.

Um, so you prefer GE because of some sim related issue? As I said, you can't use that as an argument because YOU CAN PLAY PD WITHOUT SIMS and GE DOESN'T HAVE THEM TO BEGIN WITH. You know, little things like that which show FRICKIN' LOGIC (to copy the PA post style of saying words). Or, maybe your point was that GE had better frame rate without the sims or something... To be honest from what I played I have to totally disagree. Then again, it's back to arguing about frame rates again, so I'll just step out.

He says that PD's 4-player with bots mode is too slow... but gives no reason for why the 4-player no bots mode is bad. Just 'its better' I guess...

Ok, it's not soley framerate related.

When I have 3 friends over to play some 4 player deathmatch, there is enough of us so that bots are not warrented in any way at all. In fact, I think they only hinder the fun. Thus, I rarely bothered to play it's 4 player deathmatch with bots. And thus, the fact that it has bots is irrelevant to my comparing my levels of enjoyment with playing the game in 4player mode to my playing Goldeneye with 4 players.

Without bots, I simply found Goldeneyes deathmatch to be more enjoyable. For a number of reasons.

Unless of course there was only 2 people involved, in which case any sort of deathmatch is going to be a snoosefest without bots to liven things up. Humans vs. Sims in a variety of different scenarios would be our usual choice.

...

Uh, so WHY is GE better than PD? You haven't explained that yet...

Yeah, I'd like a list of those reasons. You only state they exist.

Why does it matter? Fact is whenever we had 4 friends together, our game of choice was Goldeneye, not Perfect Dark.

Actually, it was usually Quake 2 on PSX. Don't ask me why, but we loved playing that game in deathmatch.

Ah, well that explains it. 'Nuff said I suppose.

I was going to say that one of the main reasons we preferred GE over PD was that it had a realistic motif.

But then I added the part about Quake 2, and could really only include one point without looking hypocritical!

...I guess the simplistic arcade style of Q2 just won us over.

All I can say about that point you were going to make but didn't is this...

Anyone who ends up liking one FPS more than another just because it's more realistic has some serious mental issues they need to work out, and I want them to stay away from me and bell towers.

It was only one reason.

I suppose I could have just fallen back on level design.. :rolleyes:

There's a preference thing, but that tends to be the major reason people complain about PD. Personally, I loved those levels. Area 52 and such, most great (well, I personally can't stand playing the garage level..., just too easy to get majorly lost plus it has a very boring feel to it). They added 3 of the better levels from GE as well (though to be honest I wish they also brought in the caverns, and left the doors on the bathrooms stalls of Felicity, yeesh anyone could just see you..., and oh yes the biggest GE level, the library/stacks combo, or whatever that's called that combines two huge areas, which I think I played more than the rest on GE). Oh yes, and my fave has to be "the grid". That level is small yet open yet seperated out :D. I love it! I suppose what really locked that as my personal fave was how I turned on smart slow mo and started it out with a bunch of sims in suits, and I happened to spawn in that one room with the door to nowhere, the pillars, and the elevator at the other end. I swear it was like that scene in The Matrix. You know the one, and if you don't, play some more PD.