Crap, why do they all have to come out on the same friggin' day??!!

Rebel Strike, Castlevania (PS2), and Mario 3 are all coming out on the same day next week. Guess I won't be saving too much money from this week's paycheck, ay? AYE??!!!

Blast.

I don't have the money to get any, so its not a problem for me... :)

Oh yeah, and isn't TMNT coming out that day too?

Possibly, but it's definitely not worth $50 to me. Aren't you getting Rebel Strike?

Christmastime, likely. Its right at the top of my GC list, with Ikaruga and Viewtiful Joe... and Fire Emblem and Sword of Mana for the GBA. :)

Neadless to say, I'm not going to be able to save up nearly as much moeny as I wanted to in the next couple of months...

No. And finding the time to play three games at once isn't easy... :)

Yeah that'll be tough...

Very. When I try I generally just end up playing most of one, a little of the second, and waiting on the third for later...

Oh, Fire Emblem. *puts Fire Emblem on Christmas list*

Of those three the only one I really want to get is Rebel Strike.

Rebel Strike looks like another amazing looking arcade shooter with no depth. Like RS2. A lot of fun, though... but not on the same level (in gameplay or on my list) as a sim would be. :)

Don't any of you want to get Castlevania? It's like SotN and the GBA games but in fairly pretty 3-D!

If I had a PS2 I'd think about it, but probably not get it... it looks good, but worth my money? Not sure.

You've never played any of the last five 2D Castlevanias, have you? They're like Super Metroid meets... Castlevania. Great stuff.

Uhh... a few minuites, but not much. I do have most of them emulated (all three GBA games and the SOTN PSX ISO), but haven't really played them... same with Super Metroid, actually. Only played it for a little while. My only long-playtime experience in that genre is Metroid Fusion... and it was annoying. Darn those invisible passageways and the fact that to find stuff you've got to shoot and bomb (and try to jump through) every exposed surface in the game... oh, it was fun, but I wouldn't want to try to get 100% of the stuff. Never...

And less frusterating ways of putting up obstacles would be nice. Its really annoying to be stuck in an area for a long time before figuring out that you have to shoot and/or bomb (if you try one and not the other and it requires the one you didn't try you get no indication that its the other...) that surface... frusterating!

Originally posted by OB1
Don't any of you want to get Castlevania? It's like SotN and the GBA games but in fairly pretty 3-D!

I haven't really been keeping up with the game, but I'm still interested in how it turns out. Originally my expectations were pretty low, given the previous 3D attempt at a Castlevania game, but Devil May Cry pretty much showed that it could be done. And given that it's being made by a different developement team, I'll give it a chance.

Rebel Strike looks like another amazing looking arcade shooter with no depth. Like RS2. A lot of fun, though... but not on the same level (in gameplay or on my list) as a sim would be.

Yah, I found RS2's lack of depth to be quite mundane in the long run, or for extended periods of time. But with the addition of co-op, it might be like Halo and be worth my money!

Mundane? It kept my interest, but just felt... somewhat hollow. Like something was missing from the game. So yes, that might make sense...

Mundane was a poor word. I simply meant that if I play the game for more than half an hour, I begin to get bored with it.

It's still fun, just not for extended play. :)

Its funny... I like arcade games, shooters, and all that... I didn't feel that way about RS1 or BfN, for example. I guess it was the better graphics that made me wish for more gameplay depth...

Uhh... a few minuites, but not much. I do have most of them emulated (all three GBA games and the SOTN PSX ISO), but haven't really played them... same with Super Metroid, actually. Only played it for a little while. My only long-playtime experience in that genre is Metroid Fusion... and it was annoying. Darn those invisible passageways and the fact that to find stuff you've got to shoot and bomb (and try to jump through) every exposed surface in the game... oh, it was fun, but I wouldn't want to try to get 100% of the stuff. Never...


Wow, I didn't even have to wait one single day! ABF surpasses his previous insane statement in just a few hours!

You're nuts, ABF. Abso-fricken-lutely insane.

I haven't really been keeping up with the game, but I'm still interested in how it turns out. Originally my expectations were pretty low, given the previous 3D attempt at a Castlevania game, but Devil May Cry pretty much showed that it could be done. And given that it's being made by a different developement team, I'll give it a chance.

Expect Lament of Innocence to be much better than DMC. It's being developed by the same guys that made the past four Castlevanias. The 64 ones were made by Konami Canada or something like that.

Wow, I didn't even have to wait one single day! ABF surpasses his previous insane statement in just a few hours!

You're nuts, ABF. Abso-fricken-lutely insane.

Okaaay, so because I was being driven nuts by all the frusterating random hidden items and random hidden walls you have to randomly shoot at/ bomb/walk through (or all three because doing one will never tell you if you can do the others) means I'm insane? I think it just means you have a much higher tolerance for wandering around aimlessly bombing and shooting at every available surface in the game...

Oh, it was a lot of fun most of the time, but it got really frusterating when I got stuck. I just had to wander around the area I was stuck in (at least its linear! If you had the run of the whole thing the whole time it'd be far worse unless it was clear where you were supposed to be...) for quite a while until I managed to do the specific thing that would let me progress... but the rest of the time it was fun. :)

Oh, at the end I had 9 health tanks, 175 missiles, and 28 bombs. How many of those things are there?

ABF, you really suck at sidescrollers. Have you ever even played a sidescroller before Metroid? That's how they work. For those who hate finding that extra energy tank, guess what? You don't have to find it! But for those of us who actually like games that aren't super-linear and require some skill to finish, they give you lots of stuff to find! And Metroid Fusion is definitely the most linear out of all the Metroids, so I'm very surprised that you got lost for even a second. They hold your hand throughout the entire game! That is why it's nothing compared to Super Metroid or Metroid Prime. It's still a great game, but not SM or MP great.

Not lost. Stuck. As in, I don't know HOW to proceed. The game makes it very clear which area you should be in, but in many places leaves it up to you as for how to get through all those hard-to-find barriers...

For example, I remember one area that got me stuck for a long time until I looked in a FAQ that you had to shoot out the floor in the save room... I'd never have thought of that! Or the area much farther on where you're in this water area, I think... I got stuck, until after quite a while I figured out that there was an invisible passage I had to roll up into a ball to find. Invisible passages you must guess at to find are REALLY annoying. The game would also be much better if both bullets and bombs would show the special tiles... its really annoying to have to wander around bombing stuff!

The platform action itsself is quite standard and like plenty of other games in the genre. That stuff? Its in other platformers I've played, sure... but its just as annoying here. And there is so much of it, and its required!

Oh, and how many bombs and missiles are there? I guessed that there are 10 health tanks... is that right?

Note, for instance, that some of the bosses got me stuck for a while too but I'm not complaining about those... that can be really frusterating but its not as annoying as the random hidden paths.

Oh, for the missile and bomb tanks its not as bad... games like to hide those things, like Mega Man and its hidden items... the difference just is that there are exponentially more than most platformers, which makes it somewhat more annoying.

Though, not much can top that awful MMX5 level where to get the thing you have to go on the bike and get all of those crystals... ARGH!

Mega Man is an extremely linear series with absolutely zero backtracking so of course it's easier to find stuff in those games.

I'm in complete and utter shock that you got lost for even one minute in Metroid Fusion. The biggest complaint I had with that game was that it was so linear and so easy to progress through, but I did like how near the end of the game you could find hidden passages to access every single area and find all of those enegery, missile, and bomb tanks. If you got stuck in Metroid Fusion then you would never have a chance of beating Super Metroid, any of the past four Castlevanias, Zelda 1, and Metroid Prime with the hint system turned off.

*Tsk tsk tsk* :shake:

I really don't see what's so odd about not spending my time while playing the game wandering around and randomly trying to destroy every exposed surface I see... because you'd have to do that to not get stuck. And even then you will, unless you think of trying to walk through walls until you blunder into that one hidden passage you need to find to progress...

And how can you not be listening? I didn't get LOST. Yes, the game always made it quite clear which area you should be in. It just often put frusterating obstacles in your path you had to find to be able to progres...

And MM does have some stupid ones like the ones in pits that you just have to *know* you can go down.

Oh... one more thing. When I finished, it said 4:30 for time and said I had 53% of items... but it felt a LOT closer to 15 than 5. I'm sure it was, actually... see, it doesn't count time from when you die and I did that quite a bit...

:shake: You don't even know how to play Metroid. That is very sad. You don't have to blindy shoot everywhere and look for hidden passageways if you don't want to find all of the hidden items! If you play through the game without looking for all of that extra stuff it's very straightforward and easy (aside from boss battles, that is). And it wouldn't be exploration if you knew where everything is!! Good grief, it's like I'm explaining to a five-year-old how subtraction works.

I wasn't trying to find all the hidden items! I got the ones I came across as I was exploring the game, of couse, though... but most of my frustration wasn't about the hidden items, it was about the way the game hides those special bricks (that require a specific weapon to destroy)/shootable walls/invisible passages that you need to find to progress...

:muddled: Do you mean the bomb walls and the missile walls which require bombs or missiles to break through??



...





:chuckle:

Oh man... that is insanely funny. You've never played a game where you have to find a certain item in order to progress to a different area?? Every single Zelda and Metroid game is like that, as well as hundreds of other games.

Jeez, and Metroid Fusion has far less of that than Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. How did you even play Metroid Prime? Did you cry when you had to switch to the x-ray visor in order to see those hidden platforms? Or when you had to shoot certain walls (walls, not doors) to figure out if you need to use a bomb or a missile to pass through? MP was filled with that sort of thing while Fusion had a very small amount of it. That's what EXPLORATION is all about. FINDING things.

You really don't seem to understand what I'm saying at all, do you...

Metroid Prime. As I've said, haven't got anywhere near finishing that one. Where I am in the game I only have the scan visor... though I think I get another one soon, not sure. The last powerup I got was the Boost Ball, to roll on the halfpipes... but after getting that you need to go all the way back through Magmoor Caverns, which is tough. I keep dying while trying to get through that area... took me a while to go through one way and now I need to go back from the ice area. Oh well...

As for that game and hidden stuff, its different. Now, I don't know how many missile upgrades there are to find in the game, but where I am I have like 30 missiles... not many. I got far more by that point in Fusion, I believe... either they're hidden better or I don't know how to find things in the game.

Prime's a great game... just hard. I die several times in an area then don't play it for quite a while before going back... Fusion is easier, but the frusterating parts are probably more frusterating... so far in Prime I haven't had to just blindly shoot at walls -- there has been indications of where to go next and once there some clues about how to progress. The annoying parts of Fusion didn't have any clues... it'd be fine if they had even obtuse hints about where the hidden tiles (ones that require a certain weapon to destroy, or a certain ability, etc), but it doesn't have that! Annoying!

Of course you'll probably misinterpret what I said again. Oh well.

but most of my frustration wasn't about the hidden items, it was about the way the game hides those special bricks (that require a specific weapon to destroy)/shootable walls/invisible passages that you need to find to progress...

I really don't see what's so odd about not spending my time while playing the game wandering around and randomly trying to destroy every exposed surface I see... because you'd have to do that to not get stuck. And even then you will, unless you think of trying to walk through walls until you blunder into that one hidden passage you need to find to progress...


You made yourself very clear: you hate games with any noticable amount of exploration in them, and you especially hate sidescrollers like that.

First, read my expanded post.

Second... uh, no.
That isn't just exploration! Zelda has exploration, and I love those games... or Mario 64. That has exploration too. Its not about having to explore... sure, I do appreciate in many games having a linear path to follow, but open games are fine sometimes too... I just want SOME clue about how to proceed. If the walls that had some kind of special tile were a different color, or even if just some (the ones you need to shoot/bomb/walk through to get through the game) were, it'd be SO much better...

Metroid Prime. As I've said, haven't got anywhere near finishing that one. Where I am in the game I only have the scan visor... though I think I get another one soon, not sure. The last powerup I got was the Boost Ball, to roll on the halfpipes... but after getting that you need to go all the way back through Magmoor Caverns, which is tough. I keep dying while trying to get through that area... took me a while to go through one way and now I need to go back from the ice area. Oh well...

You've barely gotten anywhere in that game.

As for that game and hidden stuff, its different. Now, I don't know how many missile upgrades there are to find in the game, but where I am I have like 30 missiles... not many. I got far more by that point in Fusion, I believe... either they're hidden better or I don't know how to find things in the game.

I found all of Fusion's stuff in less than 7 hours. It took well over three times that long to find everything in MP. It's definitely harder to find stuff since you're dealing with more than just two dimensions.

Prime's a great game... just hard. I die several times in an area then don't play it for quite a while before going back...

I found Prime to have a perfect difficultly; not too hard, not too easy. Fusion on the other hand was much more of a challenge because of some of those insane bosses.

Fusion is easier, but the frusterating parts are probably more frusterating... so far in Prime I haven't had to just blindly shoot at walls -- there has been indications of where to go next and once there some clues about how to progress. The annoying parts of Fusion didn't have any clues... it'd be fine if they had even obtuse hints about where the hidden tiles (ones that require a certain weapon to destroy, or a certain ability, etc), but it doesn't have that! Annoying!

What??! The two games have the exact same kinds of walls!! If it requires a simple blaster shot then that's all it will take! If it takes a bomb then you'll see a bomb icon! If it takes a missile then you'll see a missile icon! THEY'RE THE EXACT SAME IN THAT REGARD!! If you take off the crappy cheating hint system from Metroid Prime then you'll get lost MUCH more often than you did in Fusion. Fusion is very linear while Prime is not. Seriously, judging by your very ignorant comments I find it hard to believe that you played either game for more than two minutes each.

Of course you'll probably misinterpret what I said again. Oh well.

I didn't misinterpret anything. You hate games that don't hold your hand the entire way! Games that require exploration! Tell me how I'm wrong.

Second... uh, no.
That isn't just exploration! Zelda has exploration, and I love those games... or Mario 64. That has exploration too. Its not about having to explore... sure, I do appreciate in many games having a linear path to follow, but open games are fine sometimes too... I just want SOME clue about how to proceed. If the walls that had some kind of special tile were a different color, or even if just some (the ones you need to shoot/bomb/walk through to get through the game) were, it'd be SO much better...


You've NEVER actually played a Metroid game before, have you? I'm serious, ABF. If you shoot a wall in Metroid Fusion (or Super Metroid, or Metroid Prime, etc.) that required a bomb to pass through, you'll see a bomb icon! Same things goes for every other kind of weapon! I don't see how it's possible that you never noticed that before, unless you poor hot sauce over your eyes each time you play Metroid Fusion. It defies all logic. It even defies all nickdaddyg logic.

I seriously doubt that you really understand what I have been saying. Your reactions are quite odd compared to what I'm actually saying...


You've NEVER actually played a Metroid game before, have you? I'm serious, ABF. If you shoot a wall in Metroid Fusion (or Super Metroid, or Metroid Prime, etc.) that required a bomb to pass through, you'll see a bomb icon! Same things goes for every other kind of weapon! I don't see how it's possible that you never noticed that before, unless you poor hot sauce over your eyes each time you play Metroid Fusion. It defies all logic. It even defies all nickdaddyg logic.

Bombs reveal those tiles, sure, but not bullets. And bombs won't destroy a tile you have to shoot with bullets, or even say that it is a shootable tile... there is no 'bullets' tile. :)

Just go play Fusion. Note that bullets don't reveal those tiles that some ability of yours or another will destroy, only bombs or that specific ability...

Never? No, that's clearly not true. I've now beaten Fusion and gotten somewhere in Prime... :)

As for the other games, though... no, not much. I did play Metroid (NES) some in Prime, and it is really hard... between no map and no clues you really do have to randomly wander around until you find where you want to go. That can be fun sometimes but I definitely prefer it when either I know where to go or I can get clues to that effect or I know that what I'm doing is helping me to get through the game... Super Metroid is clearly better since it has a map, but I haven't played that one much.

You've barely gotten anywhere in that game.

Yeah, I know.

I found all of Fusion's stuff in less than 7 hours. It took well over three times that long to find everything in MP. It's definitely harder to find stuff since you're dealing with more than just two dimensions.

Yeah, Fusion did have some tough bosses...Nightmare was probably hardest, though. That boss was really hard. Though that robot thing where you hang on the celing the whole battle (the first time you fight it, not the second one) was also quite hard until I figured out the trick... and the SA-X. Thankfully its second form was easy... but then that final X blob thing was tough. And then the final boss was easy. Kind of strange... but appreciated, given that you must fight all four bosses without saving.

I found Prime to have a perfect difficultly; not too hard, not too easy. Fusion on the other hand was much more of a challenge because of some of those insane bosses.

I wouldn't say Prime is too hard... its probably a good difficulty. Its just challenging. Definitely harder than Fusion, though... many, many hours longer for certain. And while the bosses might not be quite as challenging, they're tough enough...



What??! The two games have the exact same kinds of walls!! If it requires a simple blaster shot then that's all it will take! If it takes a bomb then you'll see a bomb icon! If it takes a missile then you'll see a missile icon! THEY'RE THE EXACT SAME IN THAT REGARD!! If you take off the crappy cheating hint system from Metroid Prime then you'll get lost MUCH more often than you did in Fusion. Fusion is very linear while Prime is not. Seriously, judging by your very ignorant comments I find it hard to believe that you played either game for more than two minutes each.


Fusion is certainly more linear, but Prime so far has been reasonable... and I like the hint system. Sure, often I would have gone in that direction anyway, but it is nice to be sure that you aren't just wandering around in some area which won't get you anywhere for a lot longer in the game...

Bombs reveal those tiles, sure, but not bullets. And bombs won't destroy a tile you have to shoot with bullets, or even say that it is a shootable tile... there is no 'bullets' tile.


There is no "bullets" tile (there are no bullets in the game, ABF) because one hit on a certain "tile" will make it blow up. You don't need to shoot bomb tiles in order to destroy them, you just need to shoot them or do the smarter thing and use a super bomb to destroy everything in a room and reveal which tiles are which. And you don't need to do that most of the time unless you're looking for secrets. If you play the game straight through without looking for secrets or extra tanks, very little "blind shooting" is involved. Again, that is what us gamers like to call "exploration" and "secrets-finding". Metroid Prime's "tiles" are the exact same way. As you have shown very clearly, you hate it when you have to find things on your own. You would rather have someone guide your way through a game and not have to do any actual exploring for more than one second.

Yeah, I know.


That's sad.

Yeah, Fusion did have some tough bosses...Nightmare was probably hardest, though. That boss was really hard. Though that robot thing where you hang on the celing the whole battle (the first time you fight it, not the second one) was also quite hard until I figured out the trick... and the SA-X. Thankfully its second form was easy... but then that final X blob thing was tough. And then the final boss was easy. Kind of strange... but appreciated, given that you must fight all four bosses without saving.


Nightmare was crazy hard. It was impossible to beat that boss without losing a huge chunk of your life.

I wouldn't say Prime is too hard... its probably a good difficulty. Its just challenging. Definitely harder than Fusion, though... many, many hours longer for certain. And while the bosses might not be quite as challenging, they're tough enough...


Come on, all of that hiding away from SA-X and all of those annoying bosses in Fusion didn't make it tougher for you? I lost lives several times more often in Fusion than I did in Prime. Prime was a good tough, while some of Fusion was just too difficult.

Fusion is certainly more linear, but Prime so far has been reasonable... and I like the hint system. Sure, often I would have gone in that direction anyway, but it is nice to be sure that you aren't just wandering around in some area which won't get you anywhere for a lot longer in the game...

That's the whole point of these types of games! Using the stupid hint system is almost as bad as using a strategy guide.

There is no "bullets" tile (there are no bullets in the game, ABF) because one hit on a certain "tile" will make it blow up. You don't need to shoot bomb tiles in order to destroy them, you just need to shoot them or do the smarter thing and use a super bomb to destroy everything in a room and reveal which tiles are which. And you don't need to do that most of the time unless you're looking for secrets. If you play the game straight through without looking for secrets or extra tanks, very little "blind shooting" is involved. Again, that is what us gamers like to call "exploration" and "secrets-finding". Metroid Prime's "tiles" are the exact same way. As you have shown very clearly, you hate it when you have to find things on your own. You would rather have someone guide your way through a game and not have to do any actual exploring for more than one second.

Lazers, not bullets. But you know what I meant. :)

Okay... I'll try again. Yes, for most tiles teh megabomb does reveal them, true. It does a good job of that once you get it... its still annoying to have to megabomb anywhere you think there might be a false wall, but it helps some... much better than before when you've got to actually use the small bombs. However! It does NOT reveal everything.

-Megabombs will not reveal anything on surfaces that you can break with the lasers

-Megabombs will not reveal anything on surfaces that are actually invisible pathways that you can walk through.

Now... for much of the game shooting all the walls solves both problems. However, once you get the bullets that travel through walls you can't find hidden paths by seeing which walls bullets pass through anymore... making that task significantly harder. Oh, sure, that's pretty late in the game, but it still adds a whole new layer of annoyance.

And I didn't just play straight through. Sure, I didn't spend lots of time looking for secrets, but I definitely tried to get every tank I could see, and tried to get every circle on the map... and still I am missing half the items? Ah well...

That's sad.

No, the game is pretty long.

Nightmare was crazy hard. It was impossible to beat that boss without losing a huge chunk of your life.

True. Well, the first two parts (where you shoot the center from below) aren't as hard (though its way too easy to loose huge amounts of health in the second phase...), but the third one where he chases you around the screen? Surviving for any time at all at that part is very challenging...

Come on, all of that hiding away from SA-X and all of those annoying bosses in Fusion didn't make it tougher for you? I lost lives several times more often in Fusion than I did in Prime. Prime was a good tough, while some of Fusion was just too difficult.


Hiding from the SA-X? There are just a couple of parts in the game where I ran into the SA-X... and they were all scripted parts where you did some specific thing and it stopped chasing you. That last one was really hard, though... where you've got to go through a bunch of screens before you reach a hiding place... but overall that wasn't super hard. Unless there are other places you can also run into the things?

As I said, Prime may not have bosses that are quite as hard as Fusion, but it makes up for it with much greater game length... and I at least find Prime's bosses a good challenge. No, not Nightmare hard... but a good challenge. That plant boss with the mirrors took quite some time...

That's the whole point of these types of games! Using the stupid hint system is almost as bad as using a strategy guide.

... I do use strategy guides in games sometimes...

Lazers, not bullets. But you know what I meant.

Okay... I'll try again. Yes, for most tiles teh megabomb does reveal them, true. It does a good job of that once you get it... its still annoying to have to megabomb anywhere you think there might be a false wall, but it helps some... much better than before when you've got to actually use the small bombs. However! It does NOT reveal everything.

You don't need to bomb everywhere. Certain areas will look suspicious enough to warrant a big bomb blast. You may not be able to notice it just yet, but eventually you will. You just need to pay better attention. I definitely do not bomb every single room that I enter. If something looks off (like a hallway that looks like it's been cut off somewhere) then I start looking. Use that noggin of yours, ABF.

-Megabombs will not reveal anything on surfaces that you can break with the lasers

Yes they will. I do that all of the time!

-Megabombs will not reveal anything on surfaces that are actually invisible pathways that you can walk through.

There are very few hidden pathways like that, and none of them are required to enter in order to beat the game.

Now... for much of the game shooting all the walls solves both problems. However, once you get the bullets that travel through walls you can't find hidden paths by seeing which walls bullets pass through anymore... making that task significantly harder. Oh, sure, that's pretty late in the game, but it still adds a whole new layer of annoyance.

That actually makes things easier since they only go through normal walls! If you hit a bomb, beam, or missile block then you'll see it just like you do with a regular beam.

Damn, ABF. You're worse at this than I thought!

And I didn't just play straight through. Sure, I didn't spend lots of time looking for secrets, but I definitely tried to get every tank I could see, and tried to get every circle on the map... and still I am missing half the items? Ah well...

You didn't have to! Secrets aren't supposed to be easy to find! :bang:

No, the game is pretty long.

So... you've only played Prime for maybe an hour or two because it's too long... :erm:

And I beat it (without getting 100%) in just 15 hours.

True. Well, the first two parts (where you shoot the center from below) aren't as hard (though its way too easy to loose huge amounts of health in the second phase...), but the third one where he chases you around the screen? Surviving for any time at all at that part is very challenging...

Not hard in a good way, though.

Hiding from the SA-X? There are just a couple of parts in the game where I ran into the SA-X... and they were all scripted parts where you did some specific thing and it stopped chasing you. That last one was really hard, though... where you've got to go through a bunch of screens before you reach a hiding place... but overall that wasn't super hard. Unless there are other places you can also run into the things?

That last part you mentioned was more difficult than any non-boss part in Metroid Prime.

As I said, Prime may not have bosses that are quite as hard as Fusion, but it makes up for it with much greater game length... and I at least find Prime's bosses a good challenge. No, not Nightmare hard... but a good challenge. That plant boss with the mirrors took quite some time...

Prime's bosses are pretty tough but in a good way, unlike Fusion's. The bosses made Fusion a much more difficult game for me.

... I do use strategy guides in games sometimes...

But do you use them throughout the entire game??

Yes they will. I do that all of the time!

Yeah, you're right about that.

You don't need to bomb everywhere. Certain areas will look suspicious enough to warrant a big bomb blast. You may not be able to notice it just yet, but eventually you will. You just need to pay better attention. I definitely do not bomb every single room that I enter. If something looks off (like a hallway that looks like it's been cut off somewhere) then I start looking. Use that noggin of yours, ABF.

Okay... not everywhere. But fairly often.

Oh... the status screen says how many of the items I have. I've actually got 10 E tanks... there are 20? Really? Those others must be hidden quite well... I also have like 35 of the 46 or so missile tanks but not too many of the bomb tanks, like just 15 or 20 or something.

There are very few hidden pathways like that, and none of them are required to enter in order to beat the game.

There are more than enough of them to be irritating... and some are required to beat the game.

That actually makes things easier since they only go through normal walls! If you hit a bomb, beam, or missile block then you'll see it just like you do with a regular beam.

Damn, ABF. You're worse at this than I thought!

What in the world are you talking about? The lasers react the same to hidden special bricks as they do to standard walls... you can only tell if something is there if you either bomb or use the special ability that breaks those bricks.

You didn't have to! Secrets aren't supposed to be easy to find!

I know, I know... :)

So... you've only played Prime for maybe an hour or two because it's too long...

And I beat it (without getting 100%) in just 15 hours.

An hour or two? Are you insane? I've spent quite a bit more than that! And 15 hours total for you... wow. It'll be far, far higher than that for me. I bet I'm over 10 hours already... don't know for sure, though. It feels like it at any rate... :)

Not hard in a good way, though.

Yeah, that was pretty frusterating. I admit, I looked up in a FAQ for help... I hadn't thought of trying to get away from the third stage by spinning around the screen. :S That helped, but it still took a while... as I said I got pretty good at the first two phases before I managed to beat the third one. :)

Prime's bosses are pretty tough but in a good way, unlike Fusion's. The bosses made Fusion a much more difficult game for me.


I'd say that the hardest of Fusion's bosses are harder, but the Prime bosses I've fought so far have mostly been pretty tough...

But do you use them throughout the entire game??

When I get stuck or lost in a game and think it can help... and am frusterated. :)

Yeah, you're right about that.

... what?

Okay... not everywhere. But fairly often.

Oh... the status screen says how many of the items I have. I've actually got 10 E tanks... there are 20? Really? Those others must be hidden quite well... I also have like 35 of the 46 or so missile tanks but not too many of the bomb tanks, like just 15 or 20 or something.

Welcome to the world of old-school gaming, bubba. They're called secrets and hidden items for a reason.

There are more than enough of them to be irritating... and some are required to beat the game.

That's not true. You're just not very good at Metroid.

What in the world are you talking about? The lasers react the same to hidden special bricks as they do to standard walls... you can only tell if something is there if you either bomb or use the special ability that breaks those bricks.

What are these "hidden special bricks" that you're talking about? If you shoot a wall that be destroyed by a bomb or a missile then you'll see the stupid icons for it! The other types of walls that need a special ability to pass through are the screw attack walls, and those are the easiest to pass since once you get the screw attack you pretty much spend the whole time spinning all over the place. Unless you're stupid, that is. :shakeit:

I know, I know...

Obviously you don't.

An hour or two? Are you insane? I've spent quite a bit more than that! And 15 hours total for you... wow. It'll be far, far higher than that for me. I bet I'm over 10 hours already... don't know for sure, though. It feels like it at any rate...

Holy crap, that's insane. You really do suck at these kinds of games! :p Heh, but I envy you in some ways. You're a Metroid virgin so this is all pretty much new to you.

Yeah, that was pretty frusterating. I admit, I looked up in a FAQ for help... I hadn't thought of trying to get away from the third stage by spinning around the screen. That helped, but it still took a while... as I said I got pretty good at the first two phases before I managed to beat the third one.

Good bosses are difficult to beat the first few times but then easier to beat once you figure out their pattern. Nightmare was tough no matter how many times you played him.

I'd say that the hardest of Fusion's bosses are harder, but the Prime bosses I've fought so far have mostly been pretty tough...

Once you figure out their patterns it's pretty easy to beat them. The difficult part is just finding out the easiest way to finish them off.

When I get stuck or lost in a game and think it can help... and am frusterated.

Well using the hint system in Prime is like using a strategy guide throughout the entire game. Almost. And you've taken that long with the hint system on? How many power-ups have you gotten so far?

How many times must I slap you both before you act right?

Anyway, I loved the difficulty of Nightmare. That thing was VERY hard, but it wasn't random hard (the kind I hate), and it all depeneded on sheer skill. I thought it WAS the good kind of hard. If you could beat it already at your current skill level then it didn't challenge you. A challenge is something you CAN'T already do. I found the first form easy, the second form moderatly hard (essentially I had to get it's weird dashes to form a circle of sorts around the place so I could avoid it, and I think that's the way it's meant to be done, because once I did that I took very little damage unless I screwed up in leading it around). Third form was VERY hard until one time I got VERY angry and just jumped up on the ladder and shot it directly point blank in the face (it was right there) over and over and over again, and with it so close I could pound out missles as fast as I could press the button. It took a long enough time creeping towards me that I actually managed to kill the thing right then and there. That's been my method ever since (though I now realize getting it to do the slow creep towards you think at just the right leve so you can shoot it is a challenge). VERY hard at first, but methods for making it easy to beat exist once you experiment a litte. That's the way I like 'em. I also loved the end boss of JFG for the same reason (perfected jumping over beams in a timed fasion in that battle :D).

What? Leave us the hell alone! We're talking about Metroid, damnit!

Nightmare sucked. A good boss is one that is challenging at first but eventually can be overcome quite easily with enough practice. I can beat just about every other Metroid boss with losing little or no health. Same thing goes for most of the Zelda bosses. Once you play them enough times it becomes a piece of cake. Nightmare was just cheap.

Whatever you say, but I eventually got a working strat that's beat him easily enough each time through afterwards...

You can beat him with losing little or no health?

Yeah... Nightmare was really hard the first time, but by the time you finally beat him you should be good enough to make it not that hard... well still hard, but not impossible anymore. Managable. Either you have some strange standard or you really stink at 2d games... :D

... what?

Bombs break laser-shootable floors. :)

Welcome to the world of old-school gaming, bubba. They're called secrets and hidden items for a reason.[quote]

There IS a reason that games added more hints... sure too much isn't good, and hiding the secret areas and powerups and stuff is fine... but the stuff you've got to find to progress, hidden as well as powerups? That just isn't nice. And if you think that Fusion never requires you to find hidden, invisible passages to continue I have to be the one to doubt that you ever played the game... :D

[QUOTE]What are these "hidden special bricks" that you're talking about? If you shoot a wall that be destroyed by a bomb or a missile then you'll see the stupid icons for it! The other types of walls that need a special ability to pass through are the screw attack walls, and those are the easiest to pass since once you get the screw attack you pretty much spend the whole time spinning all over the place. Unless you're stupid, that is.

The tiles. Like the icons with bombs on them, or pinwheels that you break wiht the spin-jump attack, or arrows you have to break while in the running mode after running straight for several screens... those blocks, revealed by bombs or megabombs. :) Lasers definitely do not reveal them, or make any indication that they are there, and there are often no hints in the graphics too. Oh... sometimes there are, for sure. But just as often there aren't, or they are really well hidden... shooting a wall will NOT show those icons! I have no idea what you are talking about there, but it definitely does not do that.

Missiles don't reveal them either, BTW. They, like lasers, will destroy walls that they can break (and spin-jumps), but only bombs actually show you the tiles.

Holy crap, that's insane. You really do suck at these kinds of games! Heh, but I envy you in some ways. You're a Metroid virgin so this is all pretty much new to you.

I'm probably not at 15 hours yet in Prime, but I could be... haven't played it in a few weeks, so I'm not sure. :)

I am taking it slowly, dying a lot, getting stuck quite regularly (generallly not for a really long time, but the game's puzzles are fairly tough in places...), and scanning pretty much everything I see...

And as I said, I have all of 30 missiles. Or so... and several health tanks, not sure how many... again, haven't played in a while. I just know that last time I played I died for the second or third time trying to get back through Magmoor Caverns...

Once you figure out their patterns it's pretty easy to beat them. The difficult part is just finding out the easiest way to finish them off.

Oh, definitely. Figuring out the pattern and how/when to shoot is they key... it makes all the bosses possible to easy once you do that. Yes, including Nightmare...

Yeah... Nightmare was really hard the first time, but by the time you finally beat him you should be good enough to make it not that hard... well still hard, but not impossible anymore. Managable. Either you have some strange standard or you really stink at 2d games...

Ha! I'm better at 2D games than you are, bucko. I just hate cheap bosses.

Bombs break laser-shootable floors.

Then why did you claim otherwise? Oh that's right, it's because you like to pull facts out your ass, like the ones you talk about below.

There IS a reason that games added more hints... sure too much isn't good, and hiding the secret areas and powerups and stuff is fine... but the stuff you've got to find to progress, hidden as well as powerups? That just isn't nice. And if you think that Fusion never requires you to find hidden, invisible passages to continue I have to be the one to doubt that you ever played the game...

Oh now that's rich. Me, the biggest Metroid fan in the universe (probably :p ) never played Metroid Fusion. :rolleyes: Oh brother. I've played through Fusion a few times already and you only need to find those hidden areas if you want to find extra crap! :bang:

The tiles. Like the icons with bombs on them, or pinwheels that you break wiht the spin-jump attack, or arrows you have to break while in the running mode after running straight for several screens... those blocks, revealed by bombs or megabombs. Lasers definitely do not reveal them, or make any indication that they are there, and there are often no hints in the graphics too. Oh... sometimes there are, for sure. But just as often there aren't, or they are really well hidden... shooting a wall will NOT show those icons! I have no idea what you are talking about there, but it definitely does not do that.

Missiles don't reveal them either, BTW. They, like lasers, will destroy walls that they can break (and spin-jumps), but only bombs actually show you the tiles.

Shooting will find all of the icons that are small enough to be annoying. Speed walls and screw attack blocks are very easy to find unless you're a complete dolt, so they're not a problem. Just admit it already, ABF. You just plain suck at Metroid. I have never heard anyone complain about Metroid in the way you do. Guess you simply can't handle good, tough 2D platform shooters.

I'm probably not at 15 hours yet in Prime, but I could be... haven't played it in a few weeks, so I'm not sure.

I am taking it slowly, dying a lot, getting stuck quite regularly (generallly not for a really long time, but the game's puzzles are fairly tough in places...), and scanning pretty much everything I see...

And as I said, I have all of 30 missiles. Or so... and several health tanks, not sure how many... again, haven't played in a while. I just know that last time I played I died for the second or third time trying to get back through Magmoor Caverns...

Like I said...

Oh, definitely. Figuring out the pattern and how/when to shoot is they key... it makes all the bosses possible to easy once you do that. Yes, including Nightmare...

Not including Nightmare. Just try and beat him without losing more than one health tank.

Then why did you claim otherwise? Oh that's right, it's because you like to pull facts out your ass, like the ones you talk about below.

I hadn't played in a few days... then I did and saw you were right. :)

Oh now that's rich. Me, the biggest Metroid fan in the universe (probably ) never played Metroid Fusion. Oh brother. I've played through Fusion a few times already and you only need to find those hidden areas if you want to find extra crap!

"Joke". Something said meant to be funny. Ever heard of one? That's what that last comment was. :)

And I'm not talking about hidden areas in this case! I mean invisible passages on the screen that connect areas you have to go to... like I remember one in that water area that had me stuck for a long time until I figured out that at the bottom of one of the narrow holes was a passage you had to roll through to progress in the level. The hidden areas are a very different story, as I've said all along!

Shooting will find all of the icons that are small enough to be annoying. Speed walls and screw attack blocks are very easy to find unless you're a complete dolt, so they're not a problem. Just admit it already, ABF. You just plain suck at Metroid. I have never heard anyone complain about Metroid in the way you do. Guess you simply can't handle good, tough 2D platform shooters.


I still have no clue what you are talking about with lasers/missiles revealing the tiles... I know for a fact they do not. You must mean something else... what is it?

Though, yes, often the speed walls are in obvious places. The screw-attack walls? Often. Once you get used to the way Metroid works, that is... took me a while. It also took me a while to get used to moving via the screw attack... IMO its something of a pain...

Not including Nightmare. Just try and beat him without losing more than one health tank.

Yes, that would be really hard.

I hadn't played in a few days... then I did and saw you were right.
I'm right about everything in this conversation.

"Joke". Something said meant to be funny. Ever heard of one? That's what that last comment was. [/quote

:rolleyes:

[quote]And I'm not talking about hidden areas in this case! I mean invisible passages on the screen that connect areas you have to go to... like I remember one in that water area that had me stuck for a long time until I figured out that at the bottom of one of the narrow holes was a passage you had to roll through to progress in the level. The hidden areas are a very different story, as I've said all along!
There are maybe one or two invisible passages that you need to find in order to progress through the game, and they're very easy to find. It's very difficult to get lost or stuck in Fusion.

I still have no clue what you are talking about with lasers/missiles revealing the tiles... I know for a fact they do not. You must mean something else... what is it?
Play the game again and you'll see what I mean.

Though, yes, often the speed walls are in obvious places. The screw-attack walls? Often. Once you get used to the way Metroid works, that is... took me a while. It also took me a while to get used to moving via the screw attack... IMO its something of a pain...
It's extremely simple once you figure out how exactly it works. Same thing goes for the wall jump in Super Metroid. In SM the trick is to press in the direction you want to jump you right before you press jump as soon as you hit a wall. It took me a while to get that when I was little. It's all about rhythm. Same thing goes for multiple bomb jumps and the screw attack, although the screw attack is definitely a hundred times easier to perform than the bomb jump.

Yes, that would be really hard.
See? That's because he's cheap.

All this talk makes me want to beat Prime again. :D

I'm right about everything in this conversation.

I disagree. :)

There are maybe one or two invisible passages that you need to find in order to progress through the game, and they're very easy to find. It's very difficult to get lost or stuck in Fusion.

No its not. Lost? Yeah, that'd be hard. But stuck? Easy! For people without much Metroid experience, certainly... it takes quite a while until you get used to being able to spot where the game might hide false walls and hidden bricks and stuff. I am better at it now but the frusteration curve to get it was quite annoying at times... and the game, while it tells you where to go, doesn't tell you how to get there -- you have to figure out the puzzles yourself... and its often far from obvious how to get through. You don't seem to get that at all... wasn't it like that when you played the first Metroid?

Play the game again and you'll see what I mean.

I played it for a little while right before posting that...

It's extremely simple once you figure out how exactly it works. Same thing goes for the wall jump in Super Metroid. In SM the trick is to press in the direction you want to jump you right before you press jump as soon as you hit a wall. It took me a while to get that when I was little. It's all about rhythm. Same thing goes for multiple bomb jumps and the screw attack, although the screw attack is definitely a hundred times easier to perform than the bomb jump.

Yeah, once you get it its a lot easier... but until then? Its a major pain... getting out of that first room where you get it was quite hard.

Bomb jumps? I have no idea at all how to do that. Never have accomplished it in either Prime or Fusion, I think...


See? That's because he's cheap.

All this talk makes me want to beat Prime again.

I still would disagree... he's hard, and seems cheap, but once you 'get' him if you're careful I think it'd be perfectly possible to get past him without being hit much.

I disagree.

How surprising. :rolleyes:

No its not. Lost? Yeah, that'd be hard. But stuck? Easy! For people without much Metroid experience, certainly... it takes quite a while until you get used to being able to spot where the game might hide false walls and hidden bricks and stuff. I am better at it now but the frusteration curve to get it was quite annoying at times... and the game, while it tells you where to go, doesn't tell you how to get there -- you have to figure out the puzzles yourself... and its often far from obvious how to get through. You don't seem to get that at all... wasn't it like that when you played the first Metroid?


Not really, not even the super-confusing Metroid 1. Metroid Fusion isn't even like all of the Metroid games in that respect. If you were playing Super Metroid or Metroid 1 then I'd understand you, but Metroid Fusion is just so painfully easy to progress through. It was too linear.

I played it for a little while right before posting that...

You were probably playing Mega Man and confused it for Metroid or something like that. Or maybe there was mustard on your screen.

Yeah, once you get it its a lot easier... but until then? Its a major pain... getting out of that first room where you get it was quite hard.

That's how learning works, bubba. :kiss:

Bomb jumps? I have no idea at all how to do that. Never have accomplished it in either Prime or Fusion, I think...

It's easy to do once you get the timing right.

I still would disagree... he's hard, and seems cheap, but once you 'get' him if you're careful I think it'd be perfectly possible to get past him without being hit much.

As soon as I see someone beat him without losing more than one health tank then I'll agree with you.

How surprising.

Yup! :p

Not really, not even the super-confusing Metroid 1. Metroid Fusion isn't even like all of the Metroid games in that respect. If you were playing Super Metroid or Metroid 1 then I'd understand you, but Metroid Fusion is just so painfully easy to progress through. It was too linear.

Well then you are not normal. And you are just wrong about Fusion... or at least STILL don't understand what I am saying. Why is it so hard to understand that someone who hasn't played a Metroid game would find the way Metroid hides so much with no or very subtle clues challenging? I'm better now, but it took quite a while... with your much higher level of practice I guess you could tell where all the hidden stuff (speed/laser/spinjump/etc tiles, hidden passages, etc) is... but you think its hard to belive that it was hard for me? Huh? Think about it for a minuite! Its really not that complex...

You were probably playing Mega Man and confused it for Metroid or something like that. Or maybe there was mustard on your screen.

I seriously think that you still don't have a clue what I am trying to say here. Lets try to make it simple, for the tenth time.

YOUR MAIN GUN, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, IS THE WEAPON I AM DISCUSSING.

THAT MAIN GUN DOES NOT, I REAPEAT N O T REVEAL ANY HIDDEN TILES (other than the ones that it itsself can destroy, which it destroys, not reveals)!!! It won't show you missile bricks, or give you any indication that they are there. Same for hidden passages, spinjump bricks, bomb bricks, and the rest.

There... do you understand now? This is a fact, not a debatable point. Only bombs show tiles. Only super bombs are really a feasable way of showing them in a whole screen. And until you really get good at figuring out where the game hides stuff... you'll wander around super-bombing a lot trying to reveal stuff. Is this a confusing concept or do I need to explain it again? DJ understands me (we talked about this in chat)... and agrees on many issues.

It's easy to do once you get the timing right.

True.



As soon as I see someone beat him without losing more than one health tank then I'll agree with you.

I only beat him once, of course, and did loose almost all my health... but it seems possible to beat him without being hurt a lot. Just because you're bad at him doesn't make him cheap. :)

Well then you are not normal. And you are just wrong about Fusion... or at least STILL don't understand what I am saying. Why is it so hard to understand that someone who hasn't played a Metroid game would find the way Metroid hides so much with no or very subtle clues challenging? I'm better now, but it took quite a while... with your much higher level of practice I guess you could tell where all the hidden stuff (speed/laser/spinjump/etc tiles, hidden passages, etc) is... but you think its hard to belive that it was hard for me? Huh? Think about it for a minuite! Its really not that complex...

ABF, I am the normal one here. You're the only person I've heard of that has actually gotten lost in Fusion. Fusion isn't even a fifth as nonlinear as all of the other Metroids, so I have no idea how you got lost. That's perfectly fine, I suppose you just aren't good at sidescrollers that aren't completely linear (like Mega Man), but everyone else that I know isn't like that. There's nothing wrong with that, but keep in mind that it is you who are the odd one.

I seriously think that you still don't have a clue what I am trying to say here. Lets try to make it simple, for the tenth time.

YOUR MAIN GUN, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, IS THE WEAPON I AM DISCUSSING.

THAT MAIN GUN DOES NOT, I REAPEAT N O T REVEAL ANY HIDDEN TILES (other than the ones that it itsself can destroy, which it destroys, not reveals)!!! It won't show you missile bricks, or give you any indication that they are there. Same for hidden passages, spinjump bricks, bomb bricks, and the rest.

There... do you understand now? This is a fact, not a debatable point. Only bombs show tiles. Only super bombs are really a feasable way of showing them in a whole screen. And until you really get good at figuring out where the game hides stuff... you'll wander around super-bombing a lot trying to reveal stuff. Is this a confusing concept or do I need to explain it again? DJ understands me (we talked about this in chat)... and agrees on many issues.

Well DJ is just about as crazy as you are so that doesn't really help your case. :)

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Lasers destroy weak walls. Regular bombs destroy weak walls. Super bombs destroy super bomb walls. Missiles destroy missile walls. Screw attacks destroy screw attack walls. Etc. Each of these types of walls are strategically placed and very easy to find if you have enough common sense and have played enough 2D games to notice these patterns. Secrets are usually much harder to find because they're optional. My 12-year-old nephew who has never played a Metroid game in his entire life didn't get lost in Metroid Fusion even once. He had hell with the bosses and enemies, but progressing through the levels? Easy as pie for him. Your sir, suck. :p

I only beat him once, of course, and did loose almost all my health... but it seems possible to beat him without being hurt a lot. Just because you're bad at him doesn't make him cheap.

After having played them enough I can beat every single Metroid boss with losing very few health tanks. Nightmare is not like that. He is cheap.

ABF, I am the normal one here. You're the only person I've heard of that has actually gotten lost in Fusion. Fusion isn't even a fifth as nonlinear as all of the other Metroids, so I have no idea how you got lost. That's perfectly fine, I suppose you just aren't good at sidescrollers that aren't completely linear (like Mega Man), but everyone else that I know isn't like that. There's nothing wrong with that, but keep in mind that it is you who are the odd one.

Just define 'lost' before I get annoyued again at you misudrsaddng me. Because iI didn't get 'lost' in the sense of 'lost and no clue where to go or where you are'... I always knew quite well where I had to go, and was on the path there. The problem was HOW TO GET THERE! The puzzles in the way! That is where the challenge was! As I have explained ten times now! That is different from 'lost'.

Well DJ is just about as crazy as you are so that doesn't really help your case.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Lasers destroy weak walls. Regular bombs destroy weak walls. Super bombs destroy super bomb walls. Missiles destroy missile walls. Screw attacks destroy screw attack walls. Etc. Each of these types of walls are strategically placed and very easy to find if you have enough common sense and have played enough 2D games to notice these patterns. Secrets are usually much harder to find because they're optional. My 12-year-old nephew who has never played a Metroid game in his entire life didn't get lost in Metroid Fusion even once. He had hell with the bosses and enemies, but progressing through the levels? Easy as pie for him. Your sir, suck.


Brilliant, OB1! Only took me about ten tries to get you to understand that we weren't talking about the same thing... your responses were so confusing, even after the fifth time I tried to explain the same thing...

Easy to find? If you have experience in the game and know what to look for, yes. But not for someone who doesn't! That is the key fact that you just don't seem to be able to comprehend... its not nearly as simple as you suggest. You've just played too much Metroid to be able to see that, sadly...

And I would hardly say that not being able to find things that are well hidden means I am bad at the game. It just means that I didn't try to walk through all the walls yet... :)

And I beat the game in 10-15 hrs, with 4:30 on the gameclock. Not too absurd for my first play through a game in the series, I should think...


After having played them enough I can beat every single Metroid boss with losing very few health tanks. Nightmare is not like that. He is cheap.

DJ and I disagree and think that its pretty silly that you're taking a boss you have trouble with and unilaterally proclaiming it hard. You have a lot of trouble with him, more than average it seems. Accept it...

Just define 'lost' before I get annoyued again at you misudrsaddng me. Because iI didn't get 'lost' in the sense of 'lost and no clue where to go or where you are'... I always knew quite well where I had to go, and was on the path there. The problem was HOW TO GET THERE! The puzzles in the way! That is where the challenge was! As I have explained ten times now! That is different from 'lost'.


Fusion was very light on puzzles...

Brilliant, OB1! Only took me about ten tries to get you to understand that we weren't talking about the same thing... your responses were so confusing, even after the fifth time I tried to explain the same thing...

Easy to find? If you have experience in the game and know what to look for, yes. But not for someone who doesn't! That is the key fact that you just don't seem to be able to comprehend... its not nearly as simple as you suggest. You've just played too much Metroid to be able to see that, sadly...

And I would hardly say that not being able to find things that are well hidden means I am bad at the game. It just means that I didn't try to walk through all the walls yet...

And I beat the game in 10-15 hrs, with 4:30 on the gameclock. Not too absurd for my first play through a game in the series, I should think...

You rarely ever make much sense, so do you relaly blame me?

But yeah, you just suck at Metroid. The gameplay is perfect (well, in Super Metroid at least), you just don't understand it. :shakeit:

DJ and I disagree and think that its pretty silly that you're taking a boss you have trouble with and unilaterally proclaiming it hard. You have a lot of trouble with him, more than average it seems. Accept it...

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying (as usual). I've played against bosses that were even more challenging than Nightmare, but they still managed to be good bosses. What made them good was that there was always a clever method to beating them, a way that you could eventually master and come back to and finish off with relative ease. Nightmare is simply cheap, like many Mega Man bosses. Once you or DJ can finish him without losing more than one health tank then you can say that he's not cheap. But that's never going to happen.

It's sad sad that DJ can only tell you these things on msn instead of telling them to my face. Quite pathetic, but I expect as much from DJ.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying (as usual). I've played against bosses that were even more challenging than Nightmare, but they still managed to be good bosses. What made them good was that there was always a clever method to beating them, a way that you could eventually master and come back to and finish off with relative ease. Nightmare is simply cheap, like many Mega Man bosses. Once you or DJ can finish him without losing more than one health tank then you can say that he's not cheap. But that's never going to happen.

It's sad sad that DJ can only tell you these things on msn instead of telling them to my face. Quite pathetic, but I expect as much from DJ.

DJ doesn't like arguing with you, but talking with me about how you are wrong is fine... :) DJ just knows that arguing with you is quite pointless.

And I like Mega Man bosses.

And anyway, replaying bosses is a huge pain... I'd have to start the game over from the beginning to do that... not especially realistic right now.

Fusion was very light on puzzles...

I really think you know what I mean... the way the game hides the path! Not puzzles per se, but hiding the path you must take... maybe you found it easily but I didn't always. I think it was hidden pretty well sometimes...


You rarely ever make much sense, so do you relaly blame me?

But yeah, you just suck at Metroid. The gameplay is perfect (well, in Super Metroid at least), you just don't understand it.

And you have strange standards... I'm not THAT bad at it.

DJ doesn't like arguing with you, but talking with me about how you are wrong is fine... DJ just knows that arguing with you is quite pointless.

And I like Mega Man bosses.

DJ doesn't like arguing with anybody here. She's a coward, simple as that. It's easy to whisper about someone behind their back, but doing it in front of them is a whole other matter. I'd feel ashamed of myself if I acted like DJ.

And anyway, replaying bosses is a huge pain... I'd have to start the game over from the beginning to do that... not especially realistic right now.

It's not a very long game. You could keep a save right before Nightmare.

I really think you know what I mean... the way the game hides the path! Not puzzles per se, but hiding the path you must take... maybe you found it easily but I didn't always. I think it was hidden pretty well sometimes...

My twelve-year-old nephew didn't have trouble with it...

And you have strange standards... I'm not THAT bad at it.

Haha, but of course.

*pats ABF on his back*

There, there.

DJ doesn't like arguing with anybody here. She's a coward, simple as that. It's easy to whisper about someone behind their back, but doing it in front of them is a whole other matter. I'd feel ashamed of myself if I acted like DJ.

Sure its annoying, but given the way you are I can sort of understand it in debates with you... still, it would be nice if DJ'd just say it. Though, DJ did post a little earlier in the conversation and as she said (to me in chat) you kind of ignored it then...

It's not a very long game. You could keep a save right before Nightmare.

If you could save in multiple slots with the game I might have done that...

My twelve-year-old nephew didn't have trouble with it...

Well then we should all be happy for him... :)

Haha, but of course.

*pats ABF on his back*

There, there.

If I was really bad at the game I wouldn't have beaten it, I would think. :hammer:

Sure its annoying, but given the way you are I can sort of understand it in debates with you... still, it would be nice if DJ'd just say it. Though, DJ did post a little earlier in the conversation and as she said (to me in chat) you kind of ignored it then...

You're just like me only ten times worse. And we usually resolve things, even if it takes ten pages worth or posts to do so. DJ just runs in and out of a debate, and I have very little respect for her because of that. I don't agree with you most of the time but at least you stick around to defend your point of view. I do respect you because of that.

And the only thing DJ posted about in this thread was regarding Nightmare, which I responded to.

If you could save in multiple slots with the game I might have done that...

It should only take a couple of hours to get to Nightmare...

Well then we should all be happy for him...

Yeah I'm proud of him. :D

If I was really bad at the game I wouldn't have beaten it, I would think.

Yet you still whined and moaned about the difficulty of it.

You're just like me only ten times worse. And we usually resolve things, even if it takes ten pages worth or posts to do so. DJ just runs in and out of a debate, and I have very little respect for her because of that. I don't agree with you most of the time but at least you stick around to defend your point of view. I do respect you because of that.

And the only thing DJ posted about in this thread was regarding Nightmare, which I responded to.

Sorta, but not really. DJ was complaining that you ignored her strategy for beating Nightmare. :)

And I bet DJ would debate with you more if you weren't so annoying to debate. :D

It should only take a couple of hours to get to Nightmare...


Well if/when I play it a second time, we'll see. :)


Yet you still whined and moaned about the difficulty of it.

Because it was annoying!

Sorta, but not really. DJ was complaining that you ignored her strategy for beating Nightmare.

I'll pay attention to her complaints when she tells it to me instead of you.

And I bet DJ would debate with you more if you weren't so annoying to debate.

Oh right, like she debates with you or anyone else here. :rolleyes:

You're the most annoying person in the entire universe to have a debate with (believe me, I've checked), yet I never back away like DJ does.

Because it was annoying!

Because you S-U-C-K-E-D!

I'll pay attention to her complaints when she tells it to me instead of you.

Fine with me...

Oh right, like she debates with you or anyone else here.

You're the most annoying person in the entire universe to have a debate with (believe me, I've checked), yet I never back away like DJ does.

DJ often does make points, but definitely refuses to follow up on them... oh well, that's just the way she is.

Because you S-U-C-K-E-D!

No, because it was hard... and its not like I got stuck for hours in places or something, it'd just get very annoying before I found where I was supposed to do.

DJ often does make points, but definitely refuses to follow up on them... oh well, that's just the way she is.
As I said, she zips in and zips out.

No, because it was hard... and its not like I got stuck for hours in places or something, it'd just get very annoying before I found where I was supposed to do.
You're weird.

As I said, she zips in and zips out.

DJ doesn't like arguing but can't help coming back sometimes... it is inconsistent and somewhat annoying, yes.


You're weird.

No, I'd never seriously played a 2d Metroid before and I probably get easily frusterated in games like that...

DJ doesn't like arguing but can't help coming back sometimes... it is inconsistent and somewhat annoying, yes.

I don't recall her ever staying in an argument or debate for more than a few posts.

No, I'd never seriously played a 2d Metroid before and I probably get easily frusterated in games like that...

Which is why you should blaim your own skills, not the game itself.

I don't recall her ever staying in an argument or debate for more than a few posts.

Often true... there are certainly exceptions, but often true.

Which is why you should blaim your own skills, not the game itself.

I'm okay at 2d games... its not like I haven't been playing them for many years... its just that stuff like that annoys me. Make the path you must follow hidden if you must but give me more clues, visual or otherwise...

Take Jedi Knight. Totally different genre, I know, but that FPS had one of the least clear paths to progress of any FPS I can think of. And yes, I got stuck fairly often in it since there were many parts where it didn't give you a good idea at all how to progress... but it had an automap, which was invaluable and helped a lot.

In this case I think that just making some kind of indication where the REQUIRED (I'm all for hiding the non-required hidden paths and walls and stuff... there's no problem there...) things are would help a lot!

At least for first-time people in the series. DJ said that Super Metroid was her first game in the series and she found finding the secrets tough... not as tough as I do, but tough.

Oh, and I have noticed when I play it again that playing it has gotten me somewhat better at being able to tell where stuff is... or at least which screens in general to super bomb. :)

Often true... there are certainly exceptions, but often true.
Name one exception.
I'm okay at 2d games... its not like I haven't been playing them for many years... its just that stuff like that annoys me. Make the path you must follow hidden if you must but give me more clues, visual or otherwise...

Take Jedi Knight. Totally different genre, I know, but that FPS had one of the least clear paths to progress of any FPS I can think of. And yes, I got stuck fairly often in it since there were many parts where it didn't give you a good idea at all how to progress... but it had an automap, which was invaluable and helped a lot.

In this case I think that just making some kind of indication where the REQUIRED (I'm all for hiding the non-required hidden paths and walls and stuff... there's no problem there...) things are would help a lot!

At least for first-time people in the series. DJ said that Super Metroid was her first game in the series and she found finding the secrets tough... not as tough as I do, but tough.

Oh, and I have noticed when I play it again that playing it has gotten me somewhat better at being able to tell where stuff is... or at least which screens in general to super bomb.
Secrets and hidden passages are easy to find in the Metroid games and there are a lot of clues pointing them out, you just have to know how to look (look at your map for inconsistencies like walls that end but leave open space, etc.). You're just not going to see a big sign saying "secret right here!!". Now Super Metroid is definitely much more non-linear than Fusion and I did get lost quite a few times the first time I played it, but Fusion was just so linear and easy to go through that I'm surprised you got lost or confused. Now if you were playing Metroid II then I'd totally understand you. The lack of the map in that game coupled with the fact that almost every single area looked identical to the next made it a very confusing game to play.

Name one exception.

The one a little while ago where you said DJ wasn't trustworthy. :)

Uhh... other than that... I know there have been a few. DJ would probably remember some... I can't, offhand. I do remember a few, though... but as you say, not many.


Secrets and hidden passages are easy to find in the Metroid games and there are a lot of clues pointing them out, you just have to know how to look (look at your map for inconsistencies like walls that end but leave open space, etc.). You're just not going to see a big sign saying "secret right here!!". Now Super Metroid is definitely much more non-linear than Fusion and I did get lost quite a few times the first time I played it, but Fusion was just so linear and easy to go through that I'm surprised you got lost or confused. Now if you were playing Metroid II then I'd totally understand you. The lack of the map in that game coupled with the fact that almost every single area looked identical to the next made it a very confusing game to play.

I just don't get how its supposed to be so easy to find some of those things... unless you know the game. Okay, so this room is on the end of a cooridor I need to continue on... but I didn't think of shooting at the floor... or this other area, I knew the exact screen I had to get through but finding that one square with the hidden passage in it was a pain...

Easy? Not really.... not unless you're lucky, if you haven't played games quite like this before.

The one a little while ago where you said DJ wasn't trustworthy.

Uhh... other than that... I know there have been a few. DJ would probably remember some... I can't, offhand. I do remember a few, though... but as you say, not many.

Even in that one she only popped in a few times, vowing to never come back each post.

I just don't get how its supposed to be so easy to find some of those things... unless you know the game. Okay, so this room is on the end of a cooridor I need to continue on... but I didn't think of shooting at the floor... or this other area, I knew the exact screen I had to get through but finding that one square with the hidden passage in it was a pain...

Easy? Not really.... not unless you're lucky, if you haven't played games quite like this before.

Look, come over to my house and I'll show you just how easy it is to find secrets in all of the Metroid games. It's all about analyzing the map.

How about we agree that I probably overstated its difficulty because of how it annoyed me, and you probably understated it because of how much you've played Metroid games?

Alright.

Good, then its resolved. :)

Yeah.


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Or is it?


MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!



...

Uh-oh!

...

Better get Maaco?