Favourite Movie Trilogies

Damn that's a tough one....but I gotta say I'm on the ropes with Lord of the Rings and the Matrix...what do you think?

Oh yeah...if you like uncompleted series (e.g. The Matrix and LotR), more than the others give 'er your vote...and somebody add some more trilogies 'cause I can't add any more.

The Matrix and The Lord of the Rings are great trilogies and I love Back to the Future, but nothing can beat the Original Trilogy.

Canadian Railroad Trilogy

Where in the hell is Indiana Jones? How dare you sir! :cuss:

Anyway, Lord of the Rings will end up as a great trilogy, but I haven't seen the last one yet so I can't vote for it. Same with the Matrix, but I wouldn't vote for it anyway since Reloaded wasn't as incredible as the original.

Of course, the original Star Wars trilogy is up there, but I think Indiana Jones tops it. I guess Harrison Ford = a good trilogy in my mind.

Now you can vote for Indiana Jones.

Thank you kind raccoon.

At The Godfather, to. That's a good trilogy (er, two thirds of it anyways)

Ok I gave my vote to the Lord of the Rings...on so many levels are those the most awesome movies ever made (although I can only watch them like, once a year 'cause they are a fucking marathon to watch). Special effects, stories, fight scenes, characters...it just inches out of the Matrix.

Originally posted by Fittisize
At The Godfather, to. That's a good trilogy (er, two thirds of it anyways)

Hell yeah, how could we have forgotten that?

The third movie apparently wasn't good (never saw it myself), but it can't be so bad that the greatness of the first two could be tarnished.

So yeah, Godfather gets my vote.

...

But why are there so many options? Star Wars is far and away the best... :)

I don't count the Godfather as a good trilogy. I do count it as the best movie/sequel pair ever, however.

And I totally forgot about Back to the Future. I'd put it up there with Indy and Star Wars. The Cubs actually win the World Series in 2015 so I don't have long to wait!

Originally posted by Weltall
The third movie apparently wasn't good (never saw it myself), but it can't be so bad that the greatness of the first two could be tarnished.

Yes, it can be bad enough that it tarnishes the other two. Not enough to make the first two anything less than great, but bad enough that it becomes the most overused punchline to any bad movie joke.

Godfather... haven't seen those movies. I also haven't seen the second (or, obviously, third) Matrix, or Scream (why in the WORLD is that there?). But still, number two to the classic Star Wars trilogy... hmm, tough one. Lord of the Rings. The first two are just so phenominally good... followed by the Star Wars prequel trilogy. :cool:

You haven't seen any of the Godfather movies? :eek:

Anyway, Indiana Jones just proved it is the best trilogy because the DVD box set became the fastest selling DVD box set ever. Since it was released last week the set has sold over 1.1 million. Granted, Star Wars would probably eclipse that if the original trilogy was released on DVD, but that wouldn't help my point.

Neither have I, but I bet it's something that puts organized crime in a good light or has some twisted sense of "honor" to it right?

Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Neither have I, but I bet it's something that puts organized crime in a good light or has some twisted sense of "honor" to it right?

It does seem that way at the beginning of the first movie, but once the War of the Five Families begins...

I'd say Don Corleone is the only one with any real sense of honor... but the second movie shows how superficial even that is.

It certainly doesn't put organized crime in a good light. After the end of the trilogy, and even after the end of the second movie you realize how much Michael Corleone has lost because of organized crime and it's pretty disheartening. It's not the kind of movie that you come away from thinking you want to be a don.

Good, because as of late I've seen more than a few movies putting being in a gang in some sort of good light.

I do believe I'll bother watching it eventually if I see one of them come on TV or I find out I know someone who owns one.

Exactly -- Star Wars will crush Indy. :)

Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Good, because as of late I've seen more than a few movies putting being in a gang in some sort of good light.

I do believe I'll bother watching it eventually if I see one of them come on TV or I find out I know someone who owns one.

Just to warn you, though, it does start out glorifying the mob, but once you see everything that happens to the Corleone family through the first two movies you'd have to be insane to want to be a part of it.

How could you put up incomplete trilogies like LotR, the SW prequels, and the Matrix movies? I don't get it.

The OT gets my vote, but Indy is very close.

'Cause then there wouldn't be as many good ones to choose from.

Oh somebody add Die Hard, too. That's a real good trilogy as well.
(Why can't you edit your own polls?)

Originally posted by Fittisize
(Why can't you edit your own polls?)

Because you touch yourself at night.

No it's 'cause I ain't a moderator foo.

But you can't list incomplete trilogies... there are plenty of others to choose from.

Well the first two Lord of the Rings movies are better than any other movie series out there, and since it's gonna be a trilogy I voted it as my favourite. I dunno, what else is there to choose from?

I added Die Hard and the Alien trilogy [since we all know that Alien Resurection was REALLY part of the series].

Star Wars, Fittisize! :)

Star Wars org. trilogy is third on my list, behind Lord of the Rings and The Matrix ('casue I liked the first two movies of those series better than all three Star Wars movies...better even than ESB), and I dont' really know of any other trilogies that are any good that I've seen....

Bah. You are just whining about not including the LotR trilogy in there because it's tied with Star Wars. :p I also was on the border between the Matrix and LotR, but went with LotR for the same reasons Fittisize said. So they'll bring out the chains and measure if Tomlinson got enough for the drive to continue. And when the ball is on the border of being a first down, you should be thinking about lunch or dinner tonight at On the Border Restaurant. With locations in El Cajon, La Jolla, and downtown San Diego, you are always close to a great Mexican meal at On the Border! Hopefully none of our places have burned down. And now back to our regularly scheduled programming: ...the Future was good too, but not like LotR and The Matrix.

DMiller, I think maybe Back to the Future got it wrong. Afterall, the Cubs are supposed to beat the Miami team, and that didn't happen. Sure, maybe in 12 years, but somebody is gonna have to move to the AL too...

And I promise I won't subject you guys to any more San Diego Charger radio commercials.

Still lots of time for the Marlins to move to the AL, or the Marlins to fold and a new team starts up in Miami. Anyway, did you hear the Chargers are practicing in Champaign this week because of the fires? I could go see the Chargers practice if they weren't closed sessions. So many bad football teams around here right now: the Chargers, the Bears, Illinois. :disgust: I was hoping the Bulls were going to make a run for the playoffs this year, but they got blown out by the Wizards tonight. Illinois basketball should be pretty good, though.

Also on the topic of sports, Eric Karros bought a nice full-page ad in the Tribune today thanking the Cubs' fans for a great season and saying every major league player should have a chance to play a season at Wrigley. Karros filled in great for the Cubs this year and they wouldn't have made the playoffs without him. It's too bad he probably won't be back since there are a lot of potential prospects at first.

Anyway, back on topic. I want to hear what those of you who haven't seen the Godfather think of it once you finally see it. I don't know many people who haven't at least seen the first movie so I'm a bit curious.

I doubt anything could ever match Star Wars... I just love those movies so much... :)

Oh, and as I've said before, ESB isn't as good as RotJ... I just liked that one most. I don't know why everyone hated it... I, for one, liked the Ewoks!

LOTR is indeed fantastic... but Star Wars is the greatest.

I also think Return of the Jedi was the best of the O.T. Of course the others are great as well, except for Episode 1 which was just good.

Yeah, I did hear that, and the Chargers might even have to move the game after that which is supposed to be in SD. The NFL talked about moving it to the Metrodome, which would make the Vikings very happy.

I think we should all put this debate on hold for another week. Then we'll know for sure where the Matrix trilogy stands.

I think that ESB is the better-made movie, but Jedi is my personal favorite.

I think we should all put this debate on hold for another week. Then we'll know for sure where the Matrix trilogy stands.

Yeah, actually another couple weeks actually. Then I'll know for sure which is better, Matrix or LotR.

Hold it...I got another trilogy to add.

The Hannibal Lector trilogy (Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, Red Dragon)

But Hannibal sucked...

? Hannibal, the movie, or the trilogy? Silence of the Lambs was very good, as well as Red Dragon. Hannibal was ok.

Yeah, Hannibal was just a gross-out film. It didn't really have the psychological horror thing going for it.

Hannibal the movie sucked.

Why would we give a rating for the new starwars trilology when the 3rd installment isnt even out yet.

A Trilogy you left out is superman 1-3

Because we just know how good it'll be. Same with RotK...

Don't you think everyone assumed the third Godfather was going to be awesome? Although I agree that RotK will probably be incredible. If it is just as good as the first two it will pass Indiana Jones as my favorite trilogy. I can't bring myself to vote for it, though, seeing as I haven't even seen the last movie.

RotK will undoubtedly be at least as good as the first two. No way it won't be.

As for Star Wars ep.3... well Lucas has a big chunk of the story to tell, and did well in the last movie... I think he can do it. :)

I forgot another trilogy...Ice Cube's hilarious 'Friday' trilogy (Friday, Next Friday, Friday After Next). Those are some damn funny movies.

I'm not sure if many people even thought that the Godfather trilogy would be completed 16 years after the second one, anyways, so did anybody even know there'd be a trilogy?

I'm just saying that when the third movie was announced people were expecting it to be brilliant. That's one reason it is the butt of every joke about bad movies. It wasn't a horrible movie, but it just had the highest of expectations.

Originally posted by DMiller
I'm just saying that when the third movie was announced people were expecting it to be brilliant. That's one reason it is the butt of every joke about bad movies. It wasn't a horrible movie, but it just had the highest of expectations.

Well, GF III did come out almost twenty years after the first two, and wasn't based on any of Puzo's work.

Of course, the new SW trilogy came out almost twenty years after the first... and outside of Star Wars fans I don't know one person who ever thought the new trilogy was half as good as the first.

Well fortunately I'm a Star Wars fan. :)

I happen to think that AotC is just as good as ESB, but not quite as good as RotJ... TPM is the 'worst' of the five, but its still a decent movie.

Originally posted by Weltall
Well, GF III did come out almost twenty years after the first two, and wasn't based on any of Puzo's work.

Even so, most people expected it to be really good because Coppola had cemented himself as a great director. And it may not have been based on a Puzo book, but he still wrote the script for the movie.

I already know a good amount of what's going to happen in Episode III and it's definitely not going to dissapoint. Well, Weltall and others will love it the first time they see it but then will start hating it because Entertainment Weekly told them to. :p

The lie everyone believes:

"I have free will, you don't."

I say that because that's precisely what Weltall did. When he first saw AotC he raved about how cool it was, but then a few weeks passed and he said that it sucked. And why was that? The same reason why that happened to so many other people. Critics and entertainment magazines despise Star Wars. The press likes to poke fun at it whenever it can, and most people are afraid to even admit that they liked AotC. The same thing happened with ESB and RotJ when they came out. You might be surprised to hear this but ESB wasn't widely accepted as the best SW movie until the 90's. Critics and the press hated ESB.

If someone isn't passionate about something then sometimes they let other people decide how much they should like it. Look at how many die-hard Rare fans called Jet Force Gemini a crappy game because of some of the less-than-great reviews that it got. It was a great game, but most people don't want to like something that the "professionals" hate so much.

And before you say "but that's what you did with DK64!", let me correct you. DK64 got mostly great reviews, and when I got the game I was super-excited about it. The first hour of play wasn't that great, but I was certain that it was going to live up to the hype. Hours went by and I kept on excusing it until I eventually realized that it really wasn't going to get any better. I did beat it though, so I gave it a chance. I was just expecting something much better. But let's not turn this into another DK64 debate. Ugh.

Yeesh, where did THAT come from?

I don't care what anyone says AotC was a great movie and possibly possibly the second best Star Wars movie [behind RotJ].

I liked TPM when I first saw it, but after reading lots of reviews and stuff I started leaning away from it. Now I've settled into "It was okay, but still the worst in the series."

Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Yeesh, where did THAT come from?

I was responding to this comment of yours:

"The lie everyone believes:

"I have free will, you don't.""

Um, if you say so....

:erm:

As a non-Star Wars fan (well, I like the original trilogy but I don't obsess over it) I'll give you my opinion.

I really didn't enjoy Phantom Menance much. The light-saber battle at the end was cool, but I didn't like as many of the main characters that I did in the original trilogy. Obi Wan was cool as was Quai Gon (sp?), but most of the other characters were pretty annoying. PM was by far the worst Star Wars movie I had scene to that point.

AotC was much better, in my opinion, but until the last half-hour of it I was pretty bored. Again, there were few characters I cared about in the movie so until that final (really long) action sequence I wasn't too interested. However, I thought the action in this movie was much more engaging than PM so I enjoyed it more. Because of the dearth of likable characters, however, I don't think it matches up to the original trilogy.

Well I respect your opinion.

Personally speaking, I found the main characters in AotC to be more interesting than the ones in the OT, mostly because I'm more attracted to tragic figures. Guess that's the Shakespeare fan in me. :) Seeing Anakin as a good, innocent young man then gradually begin to fall towards evil makes him more interesting than Luke, IMO. The whole point of the prequel trilogy is to see how everything in the OT came to be, but more importantly it shows how Anakin's voyage parallels Luke's, that they had to face very similar circumstances (you'll see more of that in Episode III) which ended differently because of the choices that they made. The OT is more like a swash-buckling Flash Gordon-esque series while the prequels are more political and Shakespearian (especially with the unrealistic, theatrical dialogue that critics hated). They're pretty different from each other, and they had to be that way.

Originally posted by OB1
The OT is more like a swash-buckling Flash Gordon-esque series while the prequels are more political and Shakespearian (especially with the unrealistic, theatrical dialogue that critics hated).

The dialogue is exactly why I didn't like the new movies. It didn't seem natural and felt like it was forced upon the characters. I would have appreciated the new movies more if the story portions were actually well-acted. The only good performances, in my opinion, not-coincidentally happen to be the only two characters I really liked: Obi Wan and Quai Gon. Of course, the original trilogy wasn't all that well-acted, but it was more action throughout the entire film than large chunks of action like the new movies.

Realistic dialogue does not work with Star Wars. There's a reason why the dialogue is that way in all of the Star Wars movies (less in the OT since there is less talk and more action), and it's definitely not because George Lucas is imcompetent. It's done in the classic film style, in a very 30's sci-fi serial manner. It's not supposed to sound natural, and I have no idea why so many people expect it to. Just as Shakespearian dialogue has to be delivered in a very overdramatic, loud manner and Noh theater (the ancient Japanese theater form where the actors would where stiff masks that portrayed certain extreme emotions) dialogue has to be delivered in its particular manner (see Akira Kurosawa's 'Throne of Blood' for a great example of Noh-style acting), Star Wars fits a very specific style which can and should only be done that way. I've played SW games and seen SW fan films where the dialogue was done in a realistic, natural manner, and it felt completely wrong. Now of course no one has to like that style, but for those of us who "get it", it's just perfect. If you start to accept it for what it's trying to be rather than what you want it to be, you might start to like it just as I do.

I don't know. I guess I don't see why it "has" to be that way. It just seems so devoid of emotion. I understand why Shakespeare is read the way it is, but that is because of the way it was written. We can't change the way Shakespeare wrote, but I don't see a reason why Star Wars had to be written/performed in the way it was. The characters in the original trilogy had life and certainly didn't speak in such a particular way like the new Star Wars characters. I just don't see what can be gained by this.

The OT characters definitely spoke this way, it's just that there wasn't as much dialogue in the OT as there is in the PT, and it doesn't touch upon some of the themes that the PT does. The dialogue style of Star Wars is neccessary to deliver the feeling and mood of a space opera. You have to understand that Star Wars was inspired by old saturday morning sci-fi serials and jidaigeki (Samurai drama), so it follows certain themes of these genres. The dialogue certainly does pack a lot of emotion, in fact most people say that there's too much emotion there, but that it is delivered in a "stiff and lifeless manner". The people that make these kinds of criticisms want Star Wars to be unrealistic in every way but the dialogue, which doesn't make any sense. Star Wars is the only popular space opera of the past.. three or so decades, so I suppose that people simply aren't used to it anymore. Everyone wants realism in their dialogue even when it's not needed. I really don't get that. Law & Order needs realism, Star Wars does not.

I expect realistic dialogue because a lot of the characters are human and it just seems weird to have them talking with no emotion in their voices. And I don't really remember it being too much like that in the original trilogy. Han Solo certainly didn't talk like that.

I could say something but I'd be repeating OB1... oh well. :)

Yeah, its meant to be that way. The actors did quite well, as opposed to badly like all those fools who reviewed the movie thought... that's the way they are supposed to act. And oh yeah... the critics hated the original trilogy too, as OB1 said. Everyone forgets that now, but the critical reviews of the new SW movies are actually not too different from the old ones...

Also, I don't see a problem with the dialog in the new movies. Oh, sure, Anakin is annoying sometimes, and Jar-Jar is really stupid (I know he's there for humor. The problem is, its 8-year-old boy humor... dumb stuff. Its not good humor like the old Star Wars movies had... I realize they needed something since the rest of the main characters lack much of any emotion (see: Jedis), but Lucas could have done a better job than that! ... but still, he was funny once in a while, and didn't totally ruin the movie. PTM has lots of good stuff going for it... though you don't notice much of the depth until you've seen it several times.

As for the rest of the characters, I don't see why they are so bad... oh, sure, some do act without showing much emotion, especially the Jedis, but that's how I'd certainly expect Jedis to act... and the other people seem pretty similar to how people in the original movies acted, so where is this huge problem? I just don't get it...

And yeah, it is definitely trying to be like a '30s serial.

Well, I'm really basing this off just seeing the first movie once and the second twice so I really can't remember a lot of specifics. I just know that when I saw AotC for the second time I couldn't stand the romantic thing going on between Anakin and Amidala. Again going back to my perception that it doesn't sound real. Truthfully, I don't care what the critics say, I'm basing this on what I thought of the movies. All I know is that I enjoyed watching the original trilogy for the first time while, for the most part, I didn't enjoy the new films nearly as much.

TPM is better if you watch it again and pay more attention... :)

I don't dislike the new trilogy based on what any critic says, nor do I dislike at all really. I just happen to agree with general perception, that the new trilogy is quite inferior to the original. As I've told you guys a dozen times, my biggest gripes have to do with the poorly-developed characters, especially Palpatine. I think the new trilogy has much better action scenes, thanks to technology...

Palpatine has just fine character development... we've discussed that before! :)

Well, THE most important career ANYONE could EVER have IS that of inventor. No one effects the world on a greater scale than that person. Even if enough time passes that their name is forgotten, they paid tribute to EVERY time someone uses their device, or any improved version of it thereafter, or anything using that invention thereafter. Truly, if you don't want to be deleted from the universe forever, your best bet is to invent something important toot-sweet!

I myself have invented a loli-pop that is also a whisle, and I have a flying car, and once I went to the land where the rulers hated children and killed them.

Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Palpatine has just fine character development... we've discussed that before! :)

Well, yes. For an uninteresting, wholly one-dimensional character with less motivation than your average Disney villain, yes, he's developed adequately.

Oh come on, he's got far more than that... but we explained all that before! You don't seem to care about his motivations, or believe them, or something...

He is a Sith! And he is really powerful, and he sees that their opportunity is finally there after so many millenia of waiting! How exactly could he have any BETTER motivation?

Well, WHY does he want to take over exactly? I get now that Sith is a religion and not a species, but what kind of religion is it? The "Evil is cool and try to take over everything" religion?

I expect realistic dialogue because a lot of the characters are human and it just seems weird to have them talking with no emotion in their voices. And I don't really remember it being too much like that in the original trilogy. Han Solo certainly didn't talk like that.

That's because Han Solo was a scoundrel. :)

And you expect realistic dialogue because they're human? :confused: As are the characters in Hamlet, yet they don't sound like ordinary people.

Well, I'm really basing this off just seeing the first movie once and the second twice so I really can't remember a lot of specifics. I just know that when I saw AotC for the second time I couldn't stand the romantic thing going on between Anakin and Amidala. Again going back to my perception that it doesn't sound real. Truthfully, I don't care what the critics say, I'm basing this on what I thought of the movies. All I know is that I enjoyed watching the original trilogy for the first time while, for the most part, I didn't enjoy the new films nearly as much.

That's perfectly alright; you don't have to like them as much. I don't like the prequels as much as the OT, although I still love them.

Well, WHY does he want to take over exactly? I get now that Sith is a religion and not a species, but what kind of religion is it? The "Evil is cool and try to take over everything" religion?

:rolleyes:

Why did Hitler want to take over the world? Did he create Nazism because he thought that "Evil is cool and try to take over everything"? Come on now, you're expecting fictional characters to have more motivation than real-life madmen?? Hitler wanted to take over the world and change it to fit his vision because he thought that his way was the better way, he thought that he was "cleansing" mankind. Palpatine wants to take over the galaxy because just like earth right now there is much disunity among all of the planets. Even though he did kill a lot of people, Palpatine did bring order to the galaxy after Ep 3. Tyrannical, totalitarian order, but order nonetheless. It's really that simple.

He'll also have much more screentime in Episode III, so everything that he did in the first two prequels will pay off.

Well, WHY does he want to take over exactly? I get now that Sith is a religion and not a species, but what kind of religion is it? The "Evil is cool and try to take over everything" religion?

Well the Sith's had been beaten down on by the Jedi's for centuries. Palpatine saw this as his chance to gain power and destroy the Jedi for good.

Well that's a very small part of it. That was just one of the ways that he was able to take over.

Well the Sith's had been beaten down on by the Jedi's for centuries. Palpatine saw this as his chance to gain power and destroy the Jedi for good.

Not exactly. Actually, the Sith have been hiding for millenia. See, thousands of years ago the Sith were strong... they controlled whole worlds, and there was a great war between them and the Jedi... they made the great pyramids/temples the Rebellion happens to use as a base in ANH, actually... and fortunately for the universe, the Jedis won the war. The Sith were, they though, completely destroyed... and they continued to think that for thousands of years. Meanwhile, over time the Republic's goverment slowly decayed... and when things got just bad enough, the Sith, still waiting, were ready.

Oh yeah, and there are alwasy two Sith -- Master, and Apprentice. No others... at least no others since the war. Just two at a time, a Master and his Apprentice. Palpatine has become a master, the greatest Force user in a very long time... and clearly the Sith have become good at cloaking themseleves since he can be next to Yoda and not be detected as a super strong Force user. Why is he evil? Well, we don't really know that... I wish Lucas would tell us how Palpatine became a Sith, and why, and all about how he was taught... that would be cool. There must be some reason he became a Sith... but the point is that once he did become a Sith he completley became one. His motivations became theirs of the last few thousand years: Control over the galaxy, and the destruction of the Jedi. Those are their goals... nothing more. As all Sith have wanted for a really long time.

Of course, the difference is that now the Sith can act. The galactic government is falling apart at the seams. Nothing gets done in the Senate. Large parts of the galaxy are dissafected and ripe for revolt. The political system just isn't working. And Palpatine acts...

I won't go into detail what he does of course since you can figure that out if you watch TPM and AotC. Well, and read some of the books... :)

But anyway, at the start of TPM Palpatine truly does want to fix the Galactic government... he wants to take over and make it stable and strong. And he uses the truly brilliant, and hugely complex, plan that falls into place over the course of the prequel trilogy to get that power...

WHY is he evil? Well, we don't know his whole life story so we don't really know why he became a Sith, I think... or we do and I don't remember. OB1, do you remember? But anyway, once he did become a Sith his reasons are clear. Very clear.

Stereotypical just evil man? Well... kinda. He has depth and complexity though... witness how smart he is and how he pulls off such a ridiculously complex plan to perfection!

Then, of course, the Classic Trilogy says how Palpy loses his empire. :)

No writers have been able to touch upon Palps' background because the prequels aren't done yet. Patience, my very young apprentice.

And your history is missing a few things. During the last great Jedi and Sith war, Darth Bane saw the conflict within the Sith and knew that they would never be strong enough to defeat the Jedi. He discovered that the more Sith there are, the less powerful each individual is because that's how the Dark Side works (forgot why). So he created the "only two" rule, in order to maximize the strength of only two Sith who would eventually be able to eliminate the Jedi.

....You're comparing Palpatine with HITLER?????

Why is that so absurd? Its a very good comparison!

-Hitler wanted to take over the world to fix all of its insecurities and failings of government and society... the perfect society. That is what he wanted.

Of course, to do that he'd have to turn the world into a police state and destroy the "evil group" the Jews.

-Palpatine wanted to take over the universe and cure it of all its political failings and impotence. Of course to do this he'd have to make it into a police state, but that is the price of security and the perfect society...

And he'd have to get rid of his enemy group, the Jedi.


Now, are they really so different?


And OB1... forgot those details. :)

I don't know about that 'more dark force users dilutes it' thing... makes no sense, especially if you believe Jacen in the NJO and his new theory that the Force is actually one and not two seperate forces... doesn't make sense. But still, it explains how there came to be just two at a time...

-Palpatine wanted to take over the universe and cure it of all its political failings and impotence. Of course to do this he'd have to make it into a police state, but that is the price of security and the perfect society...

Okay, so far as I've been able to tell, that whole idea is a front. It seems apparent to me that he is manipulating the Republic's government to weaken it from within so that when he starts his evil reign, his second-largest obstacle after the Jedi no longer serves as a viable threat to him. And, the easiest way to weaken the Republic is to create corruption within it's government... and what better way to do that than be the head of that government? Hell, by this point in the series it can't even be said that he started with good intentions, because he obviously did not. He's been a Sith Lord since TPM and likely long before that.

No, so far in the movies, he has displayed not a single iota of motivation that extends beyond the terribly simple "I want total power for no good reason but I'll do anything to get it" cliche. Not one word or action from Palpatine suggests he even has the slightest feelings of misguided altruism that you suggest he has. Now, he'd be far more interesting if he did, but in the movies he does not, not in any of the four that he's appeared in. He's straight evil without reason or redemption. And that makes him terribly uninteresting and poorly developed, like some melodramatic villain in a 1930's comic or a modern children's cartoon.

Wow, you don't get Palpatine at all...

See... the Republic IS corrupt. Palpatine knows this... now you think he's doing what he is for purely power reasons. I'm not so sure. Oh, sure, the Sith want power and strength and control... and this is the perfect opportunity. If the Republic wasn't so weak he wouldn't be able to act... but because it is he can. I am sure that he thinks his authoritarian rule will be better and fairer than the decrepit republic... now is a lot of what he says to both sides lies? Of course! He's playing everyone off eachother for his own personal gain!

However... he isn't trying to destroy the Republic. No, that'd be easy... taking it over from inside without anyone knowing, which is what he is doing, is much harder and more insidious. Trying to weaken it? Absolutely not! That's the last thing he wants... see for one the Senate is already pretty much paralyzed and powerless. If that was not the case he never would be able to do what he did... but what he wants is all the power for him. He creates a threat -- the Seperatists. Now they have real greivances, of course... he saw the opportunity there because of those greivances. And he made them into a full-fledged rebellion. But he of course wants it to ultimately fail... it to do well enough that he will be able to get complete control (by being given the emergency powers and a large army that he orchistrated the construction of years before TPM (the clone army)) of the government of the Republic. And by the time people realize that he will not use that power just for the good of the Republic...

Its too late. Bait and switch, and you've got the Empire... and the Senate? It hangs on for 20 years (remember in ANH it was just dissolved), but is essentially powerless... and he has remade the government of the universe according to his whim.

Started with good intentions? Now that can't even be said? What in the world? Did you even WATCH TPM? If you did you'd know that that's an absurd idea...

Anyway, that's the plan and the prequel series shows how he does it so well. Very smart guy, really... he just happens to be very evil. :)

Is he straight evil? Kinda... but he has good reasons for it. Wouldn't you say that many thousands of years of your people having to hide, after your kind were obliterated by a powerful force that helps control the galaxy, is a pretty good motivation? The Sith want to destroy the galaxy. Of course they also want to make everyone in the universe their slaves or playthings... but destroying the Jedi is most important. And once he has power he does his best to do that... an almost succeeds completely.

Why is he a Sith? We don't know that yet, maybe Ep.3 will say that. But given that he is... his motivations are clear. He wants revenge and power... is he insane? Quite probably. But still, he manages to pull off the whole plot flawlessly... the only problem is that over the 20 years after he takes over somehow he starts to lose control... giving a chance for his remaining enemies to strike back.

Modern cartoons? Well, old ones yes, those villians WERE just "evil for no good reason" guys, but these days most modern cartoons aren't even American. He-man is, and it sucks. BUT, most of the anime that kids watch these days (and that DOES include the stuff on Adult Swim because parents don't send their kids to bed at reasonable hours any more and think "cartoon = kid") involves villians who DO have decent motivation.

Just like we said, Palpatine's motivations are very similar to Hitler's, so I don't know why you expect something more than that. He doesn't need a complex background to be told just yet because that doesn't matter. What matters is what he did during the movies, and why he did that. There's not much else that you need to know, but there's a reason why he has been so hidden in Episodes I & II. Don't worry, he'll have plenty of screentime in Episode III for the big pay-off.

Originally posted by OB1
Just like we said, Palpatine's motivations are very similar to Hitler's, so I don't know why you expect something more than that. He doesn't need a complex background to be told just yet because that doesn't matter. What matters is what he did during the movies, and why he did that. There's not much else that you need to know, but there's a reason why he has been so hidden in Episodes I & II. Don't worry, he'll have plenty of screentime in Episode III for the big pay-off.

Palpatine's motives are much more base than Hitler. Hitler's whole idea was the domination of his Master Race, the German people, blond-hair, blue-eye stock. His war on the outside was a grab for power and control, but his own personal motives were racial and social, as you'd know if you ever read Mein Kampf.

Palpstation, on the other hand, has no personal motive that has been revealed. All he seems to want is a personal gain of power and simple evil. For example, WHY is he a Sith Lord? If Vader is any indication, Sith are made, not born. You have to willingly become a dark lord, Yoda says as much. Now, Vader, even with the most important part of the story incomplete, has a great personal motive for being what he is. Palpatine has nothing like that. It is never said why he turned dark.

Now, I'll be happy if Ep. 3 does flesh out this information, but frankly, I won't hold my breath. By this point in the OT, we knew what Vader's motivations were.

Palpatine's motives are much more base than Hitler. Hitler's whole idea was the domination of his Master Race, the German people, blond-hair, blue-eye stock. His war on the outside was a grab for power and control, but his own personal motives were racial and social, as you'd know if you ever read Mein Kampf.

Palpstation, on the other hand, has no personal motive that has been revealed. All he seems to want is a personal gain of power and simple evil. For example, WHY is he a Sith Lord? If Vader is any indication, Sith are made, not born. You have to willingly become a dark lord, Yoda says as much. Now, Vader, even with the most important part of the story incomplete, has a great personal motive for being what he is. Palpatine has nothing like that. It is never said why he turned dark.

Now, I'll be happy if Ep. 3 does flesh out this information, but frankly, I won't hold my breath. By this point in the OT, we knew what Vader's motivations were.

No we didn't. All we knew in the OT was that Vader was bad but had "some good in him". That is why the prequels were created. If the PT was about Palpatine then it would have started during his childhood, not Anakin's. Palpatine's role in TPM and AotC was a behind-the-scenes one, where we were shown just how he slowly began to gain power in the Republic and a bit of how he is manipulating Anakin. The title "The Phantom Menace" refers to Palpatine, how he is manipulating everything in the shadows. Everything that he has done in those two movies will pay off in Episode III, and his plans and motives will be revealed to Mace Windu after he finds out that Palps is behind everything. We don't need to know about Palp's childhood or his back story or why he became a Sith in the movie just as we don't need to know Obi-Wan's or Yoda's background. Everything that is necessary to the story has been or will be revealed. Don't you worry, Palpatine will do plenty of talking (and even fighting) in Eppy 3.

What you said about Palp's motives are not true. He doesn't just want "power and evil", he wants to fix the Republic, which he does. He doesn't do it very nicely, but he does accomplish his goal. Just because he's not racist doesn't mean that his motives aren't similar to Hitler's. More will be revealed in Episode III, but there is already enough in the five movies to tell what his motives are.

Weltall, you need to watch the movies more closely or something because what you are saying doesn't seem very connected with the reality as the movies show it... and as we have explained it... OB1 and I have explained this just about as well as is possible. If you watch the movies more closely you should see it too.

You guys are saying to watch the movie more closely, but it's pretty hard to watch a movie you didn't enjoy multiple times. I enjoy watching movies over and over to notice little things that I missed the first time, but this generally doesn't work with movies I didn't like because, well, it just isn't enjoyable.

Well then you can't blame the movie for being too confusing or having what you think are plot holes. SW takes multiple viewings to fully understand everything.

Palpatine is a clever bitch ,No wonder he eradicated the jedi his master plan is amazingly complexe.

I am surprise he elluded Yoda for so long.

Somthing I really wonder is if Dooku is a Villain or a spy?

He's bad.

But don't expect to see too much of him in Ep 3 because Anakin kills him early in the movie.

How do you know all this?

From what I understand, Lucas doesn't seem to have ANY security at all regarding his scripts so they get plastered all over the net. That combined with OB1's total lack of any cares about spoilers when it comes to movies means he finds this stuff out early.

Oh, don't take that the wrong way OB1. I just put it the worst way I possibly could for comic value.

Yeah, OB1 looks for every SW spoiler he can find, and did with AotC too... I'd rather try to avoid them, myself, because I far rather prefer actually being surprised when I see the movie the first time... I'll look at a few, but I don't want to spoil most of the movie or anything.

I tried to stay spoiler-free at first, but I simply couldn't stand waiting to hear Episode III news. And with AotC it didn't ruin the experience for me one tiny bit. On the contrary actually, it made some parts even better because I saw things that I read about realized in the movie. It's kind of like reading a book and then seeing it come to life in movie form. And especially with the SW prequels, there aren't any MAJOR plot points that would ruin the movie for me. Nothing on the level of "Luke, I am your father", at least.

I recently read about a certain plot point from the end of the movie, and just thinking about it makes me giggle like a little school girl from the prospect of just how awesome it will be to see it actually happen in the movie.

Originally posted by OB1
Well then you can't blame the movie for being too confusing or having what you think are plot holes. SW takes multiple viewings to fully understand everything.

I never said the movies were too confusing or had plot holes.

... I guess Ryan said that then. You replied to what we wrote to Ryan, so...

Thankfully scripts change.

Sure, but certain details stay the same. Wanna know what happens at the end? :)

You dont need to tell me , I think I already have a an idea.
If you do spoil it, I will spoil matrix 3.

Uh oh, better put this under my big list o' "threads not to visit again".

I won't spoil anything if you don't want me to. And besides, it's not like you have to highlight spoiler tags.

Matrix Revelations started today....and I couldn't find a way to get to the big city of Edmonton to see it. Oh well, maybe I'll go on Friday.

I'm the only one who voted for Back to the Future. This isn't a sign that I have bad taste is it?

...nah. Everyone here likes BttF, I'm sure, but most people prefer the original Star Wars trilogy (before the new crap) and Lord of the Rings.

Thank God no one voted for Star Wars I-III. Sure, III isn't out yet, but the odds of it being good are worse than the odds of.............. perhaps........... the sky turning green and the clouds precipitating cheeseballs. Yeah, cheeseballs. :)

Uh oh, better put this under my big list o' "threads not to visit again".

Is that because you are afraid of spoilers or just generally sick of the arguing? At least ABD and OB1 aren't going at each other this time.

Its because DJ is paranoid of spoilers, for some reason...

And Geno, Star Wars 1-3 are still better than everything on that list except for Star Wars 4-6 and LotR. :)

Geez, why does everyone here assume that we're arguing whenever we use quotes? Why don't you people bother reading out posts?!

Yeah, its pretty strange... there isn't an arguement in this thread, really!

And anyway, if you want to call it one, me and OB1 are on the same side in this one. :)

Well, almost. I prefer both SW trilogies to LotR. I love those 'rings movies, but not quite as much as some other people here.

Both of those trilogies are great, but I would rate LotR above the Prequel Trilogy... I love both, certainly, but I think LOTR is a bit better.

And that is your opinion.

Yes. :)

But either way is okay. Its bashing the prequel series that I can't stand...

I know, it's gotten so old...

I mean yes we know how popular it is to bash the prequels, but nobody cares anymore! Yeesh.

I think LOTR might be just a bit better than the prequels, that may change with the last movies in the trilogies, however.

Yeah...well both of the two Matrix and Lord of the Rings have been better than the Star Wars prequels...and I think that Revelations and Return of the King will oust whatever the next Star Wars is. So it's a battle between Revelations and Return of the King, then! And Revelations is already out and RotK is coming out before the end of the year!! Damn it's a good time to watch movies...

I heard that Revolutions sucks.

I heard that Ep. III is gonna suck. From a very reliable source mind you.

:rolleyes:

A movie that won't be finished until May 2005, right. I know a good deal about Episode III's plot and it looks like it could very well be as good as ESB. It'll certainly be much more emotional and darker than any of the other episodes, that I can assure you of.

I wasn't saying that about The Matrix to insult you, it's just that it's been getting some really bad reviews. I'm going to see it this friday and I'm hoping that I'll like it.

Yeah, all word says that Revolutions is underwhelming and not really a satisfactory conclusion to the series... too bad.

What made the new matrix movies suck, Was agent smith.
He should have stayed dead , revolutions is better then reloaded but god it feels to close to dragon ball Z at the end.

You mean Neo turns into Super Neo and he and the main villian stand floating over a dessimated city (that Neo partly caused) talking to each other for half an hour about how MUCH they are going to hurt the other person and how there's only 5 minutes left before the Matrix crashes or something and then they start fighting with way too much power and it keeps cutting out to cheesy jokes about talking frogs and "booyakas" from Morpheus?

I hate mr smith, He also that prick elf in lord of the rings.

Haha, not really DJ. The big battle is actually really cool despite some rubbery CG.

I saw it last night and I thought it was pretty good, and I was satisfied with the ending. A lot is left unexplained but nothing that really destroys the movie. The ending is especially satisfying if you saw the 'Second Renaissance" Animatrix shorts.

As a stand-alone movie Revolutions isn't very good, but that's not what it is. It's really just the second half of Reloaded, and it's kind of difficult to get into it if Reloaded isn't fresh in your memory. It's just one five hour long movie that had a six month pause in the middle of it. So just imagine watching a movie in May and then taking a six month break right at the middle point and finishing it off in November.

I own The Animatrix on DVD.

Boo-ya.

I still haven't seen it yet, and I probably wont' be able to see it this weekend or anytime next week.

DAMN.

That's stupid! YOU'RE stupid! :D

And WHAT are you talking about? Elrond is VERY cool! He's portrayed badly in the movies, but he's a LOT cooler in the books!

...

Uh uh, Hugo Weavin's character in LotR AND The Matrix is awesome. Wouldn't be the same without him.

I liked how they did Elrond in the movies...

I have to wait till Revolutions comes out on DVD to see it. *is only 16*

I thought you only need to be 16 to get into an 'R' movie...

Can't you go with someone older than you? Go visit DJ (she lives in the same state, right?) and see the flick together.

You have to be 17.

Can't you go with someone older than you?

My brother's going to see it on the IMax, but he's going with all his friends and they're going all the way to Dallas.

Why not see it with DJ? LL lives pretty far away from me but I went to see AotC in IMAX with him.

I told you this before, but, anyway, DJ lives in Tulsa and I live in extreme southern Oklahoma. That's about a 5 or 6 hour drive both ways.

That definitely is a bit farther than is logical to go. :)

Like I cared so much about where you two live that I remembered exactly how far away you are from each other. :rolleyes:

I'm only 15, and I can pretty much go see any movie or rent any movie that I like...

Darn lax Canada... :)

Ha, well in movies, for the one time they asked me about my age (last year):

How old are you?
17.
Do you have any ID?
No, none on me.
Ok.

And I went in and enjoyed the movie. It's not a big deal anyways, most everybody I know does it.

Originally posted by OB1
Like I cared so much about where you two live that I remembered exactly how far away you are from each other. :rolleyes:

Well, we've both told you where we live so from that it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that we live a long ways [comparatively] away from each.

You both told me that you live in Oklahoma. Expect me to remember the details? Pfft.

But I remembered it...

That's because you have nothing better to think about. :shakeit:

I didn't expect you to remember, you forget details all the time...

Oooohh, zinged!!

And its true, too! :)

:D

Well sooo-rrrrry for not remembering stupid, boring details of your lives! Perhaps I should get a PDA to remember which stupid town you live in and what kind of stupid jelly bean you like the most!! BECAUSE IT'S SO FRIGGIN' IMPORTANT FOR ME TO REMEMBER THAT!!!!!!*













*that was sarcasm, in case you didn't notice

It's only sarcasm if you don't want it to mean what you think you don't really believe!

:erm:

Yeah!

:stick:

When I saw Reloaded they actually checked ID at the door for everyone. You couldn't get in without it. I still haven't seen Revolutions, and probably won't for a while. I hate school.

Can't believe they killed Neo and Trinity. Bummer.

Nice job with the spoiler tags, Darunia.

Neo didn't die. He became a part of the Matrix. And they told you that Trinity would die in Reloaded!

And Smith Virus, the Anti-Christ, didn't die either :D.

I am creating my own project about remaking crappy movies into good movies.

1.Remake the script for startrek Nemesis.

2.Redo the last two matrix films.

3. Making a enterprise episode.

Let us know how it turns out.

LOL, ASM, don't be too ambitious, it'd take a helluva lot to save any one of those.

It haisnt been done before!

besides I have way to much time on my hands.

Bonne chance.

Yeep, I just got back from Revolutions (finally!) and I thought it was really good...

Except near the end, during that whole fight scene, where there was about 15 minutes without seeing Neo or Trinity! It was some dumb story about the kid loading bullets, what'd he have to do with it?

And why are they so harsh about movie ratings down there? I mean, they're only movies...what's wrong with a 16 yr. old seeing a movie {meant} for 17 year olds?

Wow....I saw The Return of the King last night. Amazing, I can honestly say, now that I've seen the full series of The Matrix and The Lord of the Rings that LOTR is the better of the series.

Now, here's a new debate:

Return of the King vs. Return of the Jedi

That's definitely a tough decision. I think I'll have to go with Return of the King, but still place Star Wars above LOTR as my favorite series.