View Thread : Rare: Dude, where's my company?!


Great Rumbler
So...does Rare suck now or something?

A Black Falcon
No, they don't. They have talent, but they lost some of the best of it and now have corporate overlords who demand timetables... which means mediocricy, even from the best of developers (which they are not anymore, due to the losses).

Great Rumbler
Hopefully, Grabbed by the Ghoullies was just a flook and there other games turn out great. But, Microsoft is certaintly not Nintendo.

A Black Falcon
That's an understatement of the year award candidate...

Rare is now learning what they should have known before they did this: You get what you ask for. You asked for a company that will give you more freedom to do games or wanted less control over your content or something... well you got that. The consequence is what you should have expected: A corporate parent that is like most everyone in the industry except Nintendo: fairly strict adherents to deadlines. So that classic Rare thing of delaying a game for several years until you actually finish it? Microsoft won't let you do that much... and we now see what unfinished (or un-polished-enough) Rare games look like.

They look like SFA and Grabbed by the Ghoulies...

And of course this doesn't cover the 'you will lose some top talent when you go to a major company like MS' thing that they also experienced.

Can they improve? Yes, of course, this is just one game. I just don't know if they'll ever be quite the same as they were...

Dark Jaguar
Fortunatly, MS seems to be allowing Rare to finish the rest of their games on a "when they're done" basis. Maybe not Kameo, but PD0 is CERTAINLY on this sort of mode. That's good to know.

OB1
I think we just need to give them a little bit more time. They're not under the guidance of Nintendo anymore, remember that.

Ryan
Hmph. I've ALWAYS been of the opinion that Rare was overrated. Some of that stems from them doing genres I don't personally like, some of it stems from me simply not finding some of their 'great' games to be much fun.

A Black Falcon
Hey, they clearly wanted to get out from under Nintendo's creative control... well they got it...

And Rare was great in the N64 days! Every single one of their N64 games is at least good, most great... the only one I can think of that I wouldn't call great, actually, is KI Gold...

alien space marine
Microsoft should let them do what they want , Even if they only release one game per year , Atleast it will be a good one.

Corporate tyranny is not how you make good games,Its really to bad having Rare was the plus for having a Xbox.

OB1
Weltall hates FPS's and platformers, so it's no surprise that he's not a Rare fan.

DMiller
I usually hate FPSers too, but Goldeneye still remains one of my favorite games of all time.

Dark Jaguar
I hated FPS games until I played GE myself as well. That game blew me away because for the first time it wasn't boring shoot everything like Wolfenstein and every game after it. That was the exception, and then Perfect Dark came out and ended up being completely and 100% superior to GE in every way. Some disagree, and maybe there's the fact that I've never really been a James Bond fan, but PD is still my fave FPS. Time Splitters 2 didn't really match up, even with it's level editor, to either of those 2 games.

A Black Falcon
Wolfenstein is fun... in that 'run around and kill stuff' way...

OB1
Well considering how little time FRD had to make the Time Splitters games, of course they're not as good as PD. But I'm confident that with enough time, they will be able to make a game at least as good as PD.

Dark Jaguar
That's what you said about TS1, and you were all like "They've had a lot more time with TS2, it'll be the new PD!"

Sacred Jellybean
Hey, they clearly wanted to get out from under Nintendo's creative control...

That's news to me... where did you read that?

And Rare was great in the N64 days! Every single one of their N64 games is at least good, most great... the only one I can think of that I wouldn't call great, actually, is KI Gold...

Agreed. Jet Force Gemini, Diddy Kong Racing, Banjo-Kazooie, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and Blast Corps were all exceptional and some of my favorite N64 games.

Another game I'd say wasn't up to par with the rest was DK64.

OB1
Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
That's what you said about TS1, and you were all like "They've had a lot more time with TS2, it'll be the new PD!"

That is a lie. It's true that they had more time with TS2 than they did with TS1, but it was still made in a very short amount of time. I never thought that it would be as good as PD.

A Black Falcon
That's news to me... where did you read that?

So why do you think Rare wanted to leave Nintendo? Nintendo must have done things to annoy them...

And we've written volumes about DK64 here before. Not again... :)

DMiller
To my knowledge, Rare never publically said they wanted to leave Nintendo. They had a very amicable split-up seeing as Nintendo could have kept all of those licenses so I doubt things were bad between them. It was more that Rare wanted Nintendo to purchase them outright, but Nintendo didn't think they were worth the asking price so they sold their shares to MS, and MS bought the rest of the outstanding shares.

Dark Jaguar
Long ago when we were first talking about PD0 and it's being on XBox, you said, and I paraphrase, "Just wait until Time Splitters 2. That'll be your PD.".

A Black Falcon
I very much doubt Rare would have left if they didn't want to go...

OB1
Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Long ago when we were first talking about PD0 and it's being on XBox, you said, and I paraphrase, "Just wait until Time Splitters 2. That'll be your PD.".

No I didn't. The only thing I said about TS2 was that it had a cool GE-inspired level and that it would have a much better single-player mode than the first game. FRD had less than two years to make the game for three consoles, compared to the four or five years Rare spend on PD. I never though that it would have as rich of a single-player or multiplayer mode as PD did.

alien space marine
Geez guys the earth magnetic sheild has droped to 10 %, In a couple hundred years the north poll will be the south poll and vice versa.

Dark Jaguar
... um...

okay....

And um, the reversal won't suddenly recharge it. Sounds more like it'll die, maybe before even reversing polarity. This downhill trend MAY suddenly turn around, OR we could all die in the most horrible fasion imaginable as the last shield against solar radiation goes away. Oh well.

A Black Falcon
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/12/12/magnetic.poles.ap/index.html

It could be that in 1,500 to 2,000 years the magnetic field switches ends...

Or it could be that it's just a temporary dip.

Guess which is more likely... :)

Oh, and this 'down 10%' thing is over the past 150 years.

alien space marine
Kind of fascinating and horrorifying, I hope its just a dip in the earth polarity. But it would be kind of odd that canada would be refferd too as the south!

For an idea of what could happen see the movie the Core, Not that it is very realistic but it just a small glispe of what could happen.

I think honnestly these scientist are trying to scare the pants out of the greedy rich elite, For ruining are planets.

These kinds of changes have happend before , They found palm trees in the artic so it makes you wonder if the frozen north was once a caribean tropical island.

Not that I mind changing places with florida.

Dark Jaguar
Oh for the love of... That movie was SO unrealistic it's not even funny. NOTHING like what happened in that movie would happen if the magnetic field were removed. Oh and, that whole magnetic reversal thing HAS NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE to do with finding palm trees in the arctic! Yeesh... That's continental drift at work!

Great Rumbler
This is...WAY off-topic.

A Black Falcon
Yeah, The Core has absolutely nothing to do with science.

OB1
They hacked into the center of the earth!! It's just crazy enough to be true, darnit!

A Black Falcon
Sorry, but we wouldn't all die if the magnetic field switched sides...

OB1
But... but in The Core they said--

A Black Falcon
Sorry to destroy your illusions, but that's just a movie.

OB1
You lie! It was a documentary that happened in real-time!!

Great Rumbler
I wish I had a weather machine.

A Black Falcon
Really, the Earth's magnetic field started to switch every time they showed that movie? Wow, I didn't know that they could rebuild cities that fast... :D

alien space marine
The most realistic Sci Fi movie is red planet , But the Core is pretty whacked , Like how did the hacker communicate with them when they were in the center of the earth?!!!

Here is a great site all about science fact and fiction.


http://www.badastronomy.com/whatsnew.html

Dark Jaguar
Birds might get lost, we'd have to either make brand new compases to show north on the right side, or call the north pole the south one (more likely to do the former, who has a compass anyway, easy to just change them, no one wants to suddenly be calling the north pole the south pole). That's it.

Dark Jaguar
I love that site. Learned about it at Snopes.com. Yes, a huge beef about ALL lasers shown in EVERY movie EVER made is that they are ALWAYS shot out as visible even with no dust in the air to deflect photons towards one's eyes! One personal beef is the one time they DO have this bit of thing correct is in a bad bit of engineering, like when someone blows powder across a security laser to expose it. Why would anyone make a security laser in the VISIBLE light spectrum? An infrared beam would never be exposed like that, because it can't be seen! Of course, sometimes it's actually supposed to BE infrared, and they say so, and then they use the same trick and there's visible light! Annoying!

Also, that stupid ship would SO have melted! The only thing that can withstand that magma is dolamite! The solid rock that won't cop out when there's heat all about!

A Black Falcon
The magnetic field has switched plenty of times before... it just means that the polarity is reversed. You don't have to call the North pole South or something, just say that the polarity is opposite but because we arbitrarially call the Arctic 'up', the North pole stays in the North.

It'll just be the polarity that is currently on the South Magnetic Pole. :)

(I think compasses would still work... though they might point in the 'opposite' direction or something...)

OB1
Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
I love that site. Learned about it at Snopes.com. Yes, a huge beef about ALL lasers shown in EVERY movie EVER made is that they are ALWAYS shot out as visible even with no dust in the air to deflect photons towards one's eyes! One personal beef is the one time they DO have this bit of thing correct is in a bad bit of engineering, like when someone blows powder across a security laser to expose it. Why would anyone make a security laser in the VISIBLE light spectrum? An infrared beam would never be exposed like that, because it can't be seen! Of course, sometimes it's actually supposed to BE infrared, and they say so, and then they use the same trick and there's visible light! Annoying!

Also, that stupid ship would SO have melted! The only thing that can withstand that magma is dolamite! The solid rock that won't cop out when there's heat all about!

I bet you're one of those people who complain about sound effects in space battles in movies and games, right?

Great Rumbler
I love that site. Learned about it at Snopes.com. Yes, a huge beef about ALL lasers shown in EVERY movie EVER made is that they are ALWAYS shot out as visible even with no dust in the air to deflect photons towards one's eyes! One personal beef is the one time they DO have this bit of thing correct is in a bad bit of engineering, like when someone blows powder across a security laser to expose it. Why would anyone make a security laser in the VISIBLE light spectrum? An infrared beam would never be exposed like that, because it can't be seen! Of course, sometimes it's actually supposed to BE infrared, and they say so, and then they use the same trick and there's visible light! Annoying!

:erm:

A Black Falcon
Or light speed?

Dark Jaguar
Yes, they would point the other way. And we don't call arctic "up", we call it north, and display it facing upwards on maps and globes. We can do the same with the galaxy, since it does rotate.

More than that, we have 2 north poles and 2 south. One's rotational, and the other's magnetic. We don't rotate around magnetic north.

No, it's better to have some sound there than nothing for dramatic effect, though I wonder if it'd be just as cool for there to be nothing except maybe music in those scenes. I mean, anime does the "total silence during massive explosions except for some dramatic music" thing all the time. I accept these things are there for drama a lot of the time, but would it be that hard to add some smoke or steam or something if there's going to be a laser battle? They could even have some cool thing where that has to be used to see the beams to track the enemy. I can disengage from reality well enough to enjoy these things, but sometimes they do something so silly it snaps me out of it. I have a few standards.

Also, as this site points out, what's with SOUND BASED WEAPONRY in space in Attack of the Clones? Ya can't have a seismic explosion without something to carry the wave.

A Black Falcon
'Cause Lucas, when he made Star Wars, decided that there is sound in space... or if you want an "explanation", that the explosion ... um, I don't know ... creates a shockwave that doesn't require an atmosphere to keep expanding? Like an explosion would... or just pretend that there's enough atmosphere in that belt. :D

And if it's "up" on the map it's "up"... I'd say that "up" is generally connected in our minds with the Arctic and "down" with the Antarctic, despite the fact that nothing says one is really "up"...

Great Rumbler
I mean, anime does the "total silence during massive explosions except for some dramatic music" thing all the time.

They do?

but would it be that hard to add some smoke or steam or something if there's going to be a laser battle?

:erm:

They're called "Science fiction" for a reason, people. Besides, if they actually made they're movies were everything followed the laws of the universe the movies probably wouldn't be as cool.

A Black Falcon
The Enterprise races from Earth to the front lines on a vital diplomatic mission...

At sublight speeds they get there decades later.

Good movie, huh?

OB1
Haha, that would be awesome. I'd love to see Star Wars done DJ-style.

There's be no cool blasters, no lightsabers, no sound in space, no cool seismic charges, no human-like races, no lightspeed, no Force, and no fun. :D

A Black Falcon
Yeah, DJ, it's called "suspension of disbelief"... ever heard of it? :D

I mean, don't you like cartoons where unrealistic things happen constantly? Do you complain about that too?

Seismic charges are COOL. Realistic? Maybe not. But they are COOL. That's good enough. :) Someone later can invent a better reason why it can happen according to Star Wars Physics...

alien space marine
Sound cant travel in space , So Lucas oops it there.

But I still believe it could be possible.

Great Rumbler
In the Garfield comic, Garfield TALKS!! Gah! Don't these people know that cats CAN'T TALK!! And he walks up right! That's impossible! Cats can't walk upright! I'm never reading that comic ever again!!

Sound cant travel in space , So Lucas oops it there.

It's not a mistake, it's just one of those things that people know, but they just don't care.

Ryan
!!!!
STAR WARS SUCKS! There's no sound in space!

Full Metal Jacket sucks! Private Pyle goes from fat to thin to fat again!

The Matrix sucks! Keanu can't act!

Dark Jaguar
Oh for the love of...

Look, I'm just saying when a movie claims from day 1 that it's "completely accurate", it HAS to expect people to point it out when the very center of the movie is completely impossible. I'm talking "the core" here. Of course I suspend my disbelief and enjoy movies, but I can't ever EVER have a little annoyance at things? That's hardly fair. Read that site up there. He isn't pointing out the flaws because he's some nit-picker giving reasons why the movies are BAD. He actually loves some of those movies. It's because knowledge is power and a lot of people just don't know that movies are just as unrealistic, scientifically, today as they were 50 years ago. It's to inform, not complain, EXCEPT in the case of The Core where they claimed it WAS completely accurate.

Nice to know mob mentality is in full strength here.

OB1
When did the makers of the film ever claim that The Core was super realistic? I didn't see the movie but I don't believe for a second that any sane human being could think that it was a realistic story.

Dark Jaguar
On all the interviews I happened to catch with people involved in it, they were all talking about how real this movie was. In fact, at that site up there, there's a letter from the writer of that movie angrily lashing out at another site that had problems with various scientific issues. They did in fact think their movie was very accurate and had advertised it rather often when it came out (not in commercials, but in interviews).

OB1
That's insane.

But anyhow, what does this have to do with Star Wars? Lightsabers and sound in space make the movies better, you big baby.

Dark Jaguar
Never said they didn't.

OB1
You just cried about being able to see lasers and such.

A Black Falcon
DJ is being confusing... and anyone who thinks or thought that The Core was realistic is delusional. It was very obvious from just the trailer that it was fantasy.