View Thread : WOW beta!


Pages: [1] 2

alien space marine
I just got signed up!Its very tough just getting your sign up in so much lag.

If i get picked I am gonna be either a human warlock or paladin knight and maybe a Gnome rogue!

Great Rumbler
What?

A Black Falcon
Yes sign up now. I did. NOW I SAY! For anyone with a tenth intrest in Blizzard or MMORPGs for free (well you have to test bugs and not mind bugs, but you don't pay... that is until it goes retail, when you will have to...)

I haven't missed an opportunity to try for a Blizz beta test since their first public beta with Starcraft, and the fact that I haven't gotten in any of them yet won't keep me from continuing to try... :)

alien space marine
Blizzards website has been so anal raped I wouldnt reccomend going there untill tommorow.Thousands of crazed fans tried to sign up all at once I barely got to page 2. Blizzard had made a emergecy update to keep their site from crashing.

Ryan
Wow?

alien space marine
World of warcraft! Its MMORPG in the world of azeroth.

A Black Falcon
Heathen! Burn!

Ryan
Azeroth?

Wtf is all this crazy talk? :(

A Black Falcon
Hmm, which characters... a Night Elf (is it beastmaster? Where you can ride a animal...), probably... maybe a human mage... some undead?

But realisticly, the chances of getting in are very slim. A lot of people sign up. :(

Ryan
So since I won't bother, I don't need to worry that I'm missing out on something important?

A Black Falcon
Are you trying to antagonize the Blizzard fans here as much as possible or something? Quit it!

Ryan
Yep. It's three in the morning and I can't sleep. I'm making it your problem.

alien space marine
Yep. It's three in the morning and I can't sleep. I'm making it your problem.

Die Infidel.

I am going to be a Paladin human for sure,I wonder how much it will cost to get a Horse? The NE have white Tigers and the druids can become animals

EdenMaster
Oh goodie. An opportunity to pay money to sit online for hours at a time to play a marginally fun game against people even dorkier than I am.

Where do I sign up?

*sarcasm*

Geno
...........................................wark.

A Black Falcon
http://www.blizzard.com/register/wowbetaAlt/

And EM, this is the BETA. Betas are free. They are pretty much anyone's only chance of ever playing a MMORPG for free... :)

OB1
I'm with you, EM. If most Blizz fans are like ABF here then I don't think it would be a whole lot of fun to play with them in a big MMORPG. :p

Great Rumbler
MMORPGs based on existing series are average at best compared to the regular games in the series.

A Black Falcon
I'm not the only Blizz fan here...

And Blizz has never made an "average" original game. They have very high standards and release games with huge amounts of polish that others don't. WoW will be incredible, absolutely incredible. It is Blizzard.

alien space marine
If it waisnt blizzard then it would suck! Blizzard has never had a single failure.
Blizzard WOW team is full of MMORPG dorks that know whats hot and whats not so I have confidence by their record that this game will deliver.

Besides they got pirate ships!

OB1
I don't think a MMORPG can be incredible.

A Black Falcon
www.worldofwar.net

OB1
I got chosen for WOW beta testing!

Great Rumbler
I wonder if you could sell the beta copy on eBay...

Geno
If you can sell a Y2K compliant straw, Justin Timberlake's half-eaten French toast, or a bunch of Mexican kids on eBay, I'm sure you can sell a beta copy there too.

In fact, even God uses eBay. He once had an auction up where He was selling the Earth. Bids went up to ten million dollars.

OB1
Really?

Geno
Go to WhattheHeck.com. They have a section dedicated to weird eBay auctions. You can buy anything from someone's soul to someone's virginity! Even have someone kick your ass! (You must pay for his flight expenses, meals, hotel cost, etc.)

OB1
Didn't someone sell a ghost in a jar on ebay before?

Geno
Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

OB1
I think someone here posted a link to it.

Great Rumbler
Some guy sold a tupperware container filled with Britteny Spear's flatulance...

A Black Falcon
Yeah. And I think I remember the ghost in the jar...

Great Rumbler
I seem to remember that to.

Ryan
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news3.shtml

A Black Falcon
Morons ruining a good thread... if you really hate such a great looking game in every respect so much, go away and be quiet. Or make another thread, I don't care.

Ryan
You contributed to it too, Mr. High-And-Mighty.

A Black Falcon
One post.

Ryan
That's all I did.

A Black Falcon
Uh huh. You've posted like fifteen times in this thread insulting the game and then you try to destroy it with that massive article... get rid of it (put it elsewhere, whatever), or I will...

If you were trying to annoy me, congratulations, you succeeded.

Ryan
Four times.

*marks another one*

A Black Falcon
So it's fine to annoy people just so that you can say that you annoyed them? :troll:

And trolls are bad.

Anyway...

This game looks so, so great...

http://www.worldofwar.net/characters/index.php

Who would you be? :) This has an exhaustive list. You can be more than one of course... I would want a Night Elf Hunter, a Human Mage, and an Undead Warrior for sure... but the Alliance is better than the Horde. :)

...

Well, okay, right now the Undead kind of are crushing everyone, but that's the Lich King's undead, not the Forsaken that are the playable ones in this game allied with the Horde. But one thing has kind of dissapointed me... I was hoping that the War3 uneasy friendship between Humans and Orcs could hold, especially in such trying times with very strong enemies out there in control of a lot of land... sad to see Blizz make them enemies again. I know it's more fun gameplay-wise, for sure, but I'm very interested in the story of Warcraft and the living races should realize that they still have to ally against some common foes, even with the Demons gone...

Ryan
Sometimes. It's the premise of at least a dozen TV shows.

OB1
Now you know how it feels, ABF! You're the king of thread ruin...ators.

A Black Falcon
Now how about instead acting idiodic about games you don't know anything about you do something useful like finally reply to my post in the Wheel of Time thread... :)

OB1
:erm:

A Black Falcon
I don't act like this, and I don't say things without knowing anything about the game for the sole purpose of really annoying people.

OB1
Yeah you just do it unintentionally.

A Black Falcon
At least I base my comments on reality.

OB1
And I don't? Hey just because your puny human brain can only comprehend one reality doesn't mean that the rest of us are the same.

A Black Falcon
Hilarious coming from the person here least likely to ever admit anyone else's opinion could ever be even remotely valid, even for them...

A Black Falcon
Ooh... so pretty...

http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/03.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/04.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/06.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/05.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/07.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/08.jpg

OB1, it must be pretty lonely being one of the two or three people on the planet who don't think this game looks amazing...

OB1
It really doesn't look that great. Wanna see a great-looking MMORPG? Here:


http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/191EQ2_1023_018.jpg

http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/194EQ2_1023_010.jpg

http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/201Battle-in-the-Sprawl2.jpg

http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/204Grouped-in-Qeynos.jpg

http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/Dark-Elf-Attitude.jpg

http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/Dark-Elf-Priestess.jpg

Yeah WoW pretty much looks like crap compared to this.

OB1
Hilarious coming from the person here least likely to ever admit anyone else's opinion could ever be even remotely valid, even for them...

No that's just yours. :kiss:

A Black Falcon
http://www.gamespy.com/previews/january04/wowpc/

Gamespot, IGN, and Gamespy are all certainly very impressed by WoW, if you read anything they say... not to mention Blizz fansites obviously. :)

And as for whatever that game is, it certainly has high poly characters, but the environments are quite unimpressive. WoW's look far, far nicer. And please remember, WoW is trying to look cartoonish. That is the style. Thus the cartoonish look, which looks very similar to Warcraft III, is perfect. And given how great Warcraft III looks (sure the models are a bit low poly but you don't notice that when actually playing the game, you just notice how amazingly stylish it all is and how beautiful the game is in motion, especially with groups of troops on the screen... that is, if your comp can handle turning on the graphics all the way...)

http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/02.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/01.jpg

The Night Elf city is beautiful...

http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/index.php
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-238.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-244.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-246.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-234.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-241.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-118.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-117.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-113.jpg
Wow. Just wow.
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-030.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-096.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-217.jpg
Black Rock Spire... wow...
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-160.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-164.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-231.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-123.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-013.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-149.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-022.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-112.jpg
The scale of that door...
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-133.jpg
Blizz's visual style is some of the best.
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-136.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-085.jpg

The problem isn't with the graphics. It's with your bizarre hatred of Blizzard's beautiful graphical style used in WC3 and WoW.

I mean, seriously try to say that these environments look as nice. (EQ2)

http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/eq2/january04/04.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/eq2/january04/05.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/eq2/january04/04.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/eq2/january04/06.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/eq2/january04/09.jpg
http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/eq2/january04/10.jpg

I know which game I choose... especially for sheer style.

OB1
Are you kidding me? WoW's environments are nothing special at all. Low poly count, poor textures, you name it. It looks like they're trying to get it to run on a Dreamcast-quality PC.

Blizz can do gameplay, but definitely not high-quality graphics.

A Black Falcon
Look at my last post again now. Oh, EQ2 is nice looking and all, but compared to the sheer visual greatness of Blizzard's artwork, it pales. Just about anything would... Blizz proves that polygons are no replacement for great art.

alien space marine
Everquest is crap! Sony customer service is pretty weak and for that alone EQ2 isnt as good.

WOW has a way better storyline and a much more interesting enviroments,Graphics doesnt make a good game and WOW graphics are good enough otherwise it may has well be FFXI which has better graphics but shitty gameplay.

A Black Falcon
Yeah, don't those environments in EQ2 look really bland? Not what I'd expect from such a big game, but they do. For comparison, look at these...

http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/194EQ2_1023_010.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-244.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-234.jpg

Etc. Its not even close. The only nice thing in those EQ2 shots for environments is the nice look of the Medieval village... and those buildings do look nice. But I definitely prefer the beauty of WoW's amazing cartoon art. As I said, sure, EQ2 has more polys, but that is irrelevant when we're talking artwork as great as WoW.

And gameplay-wise I am sure that there will be no comparison.

Oh, and EQ2 has very ugly hills and trees, and the people while they often look good have a few not so flattering. See: the last two in that giant picture post of mine. :)

OB1
We're not talking about which game has better art design (which is completely subjective) or gameplay. We're talking about which game looks better from a technical standpoint. Sure WoW has nice art, but the graphics are DC-quality. It looks like they're using the WC3 engine, fer cryin' out loud. I'm sure it'll be fun since it's Blizzard, but the graphics engine was very obviously made with low-end systems in mind.

Geno
I have taste of colts! *is mauled for ruining the thread again*

A Black Falcon
Uh, those graphics look a lot better than WC3. And art is obviously a huge factor! The most important one at this point, I'd certainly say. And even just graphically, as I said, EQ has bad looking trees and strange terrain... not mentioning again that WoW just has better style and much cooler looking characters and worlds. :)

OB1
It looks marginally better than WC3. Art is the only thing WoW has going for it, and if you're suggesting that art is all that matters then Grim Fandango looks better than WoW and EQ2 combined. The poly counts are insanely low, the textures are low-res, and you can totally tell that they wanted people with P2s and Voodoo 3's to be able to play the game. :p

Everquest's characters, environments, and textures all look ten times better than WoW's. Don't let your Blizzard fanboyism blind you, ABF. WoW will probably be the better game, but technically speaking it's archaic.

A Black Falcon
Blizz always tries to make their games beautiful but not super-high-spec, so that someone with an average machine can play it decently. They need to to hit the mass market that they do with their games...

As for art, some of my favorites are Rayman 2 on cartoonish (that games' graphics impressed me a lot...) and Disciples 2 (yes its 2d and I mention it often but the artwork in that game is just so amazing...). :)

Ugly terrain.
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/191EQ2_1023_018.jpg
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/screenshots/010504/201Battle-in-the-Sprawl2.jpg

Not to mention that awful giant tree in my last post.

And the characters are high-poly but they look... I don't know... shiny? Not realistic. Like they're going for realism but made them look plasticy. Blizz's look a lot more like real things (for the world they are in), and always seem to 'fit'... oh the EQ ones fit their world I'd say but that's because the world isn't exactly made up of great art either. :)

OB1
Aesthetically bland like Dungeons and Dragons games, yes. But techically speaking it's a complete joke for you to even compare WoW with EQ2. It's like comparing Medieval Total War with WC3. Sure the characters fit in with their world. Low poly world with poor textures, low poly characters with poor textures. Wee!

The EQ2 characters look shiny because of an overuse of shaders. You'll see lots of that in plenty of X-Box games as well. But it sure beats WoW's DC textures, that's for sure. The only thing WoW's graphics have going for it is the color pallette and the art style. Everything else is C-R-A-P.

A Black Falcon
You are completely insane. It is a joke even pretending to say that EQ2 is better looking than WoW... because, see, what the graphics actually LOOK LIKE matters, and WoW is a million times nicer looking than EQ's bland graphics.

And the Dreamcast could never do WoW or its graphics in its wildest dreams.

And you honestly think that the terrain and trees and stuff in EQ2 looks better than WoW? Seriously, are you blind?

You call me an automaton, but if you can't see the brilliance of Blizzard's graphical style in Warcraft III and World of Warcraft its not me who is one.

Ooh, more polygons! Must be better looking then!

OB1
You've lost it, boy. I can't believe how hard you're trying to convince yourself that gorgeous graphics like this...


http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/eq2/january04/06.jpg[/img]


....look worse than average stuff like this:


http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-149.jpg


I mean [i]really now, this is pretty sad. This debate is not about which game is going to be better or which one has a brighter look to it, it's about which one has better graphics! EQ2 a years ahead of WoW in that regard. There's no comparison whatsoever.

Oh and yes, the DC could pretty much do that. I've played dozens of DC games with much better characters models and environments. Maybe not both with a draw distance that good, but it's certainly not that big of a stretch. WoW would look good in 2000, but definitely not in 2004.

OB1
ABF, as usual you don't even know what this debate is about. It's technical, not aesthetic. Aesthetics are far too subjective, and someone can consider Mario World to be the best-looking game ever simply because they love the art in the game. Personally, I consider ICO to be the most beautiful game ever made, but I would never proclaim that it has better graphics than Doom 3. Conversely, I despise Doom 3's art style but I admire its technical magnificence. WoW is aesthetically pleasing, but on a purely technical level it's pretty bad. I don't find Everquest 2 to be aesthetically pleasing but on a technical level it's really amazing for a MMORPG. And before you say it yes, aesthetics are a very important part of graphics. But when I said that EQ2 is much more graphically impressive than WoW, I made it very clear that I meant technically-speaking.

A Black Falcon
That's a town and a snow field! Different areas...

http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-123.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-013.jpg

And the EQ2 people look nice but they're so glossy... WoW's look much better that way. More realistic, in the game's cartoonish way.

Some ones I didn't post before.

Big, and cool...
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-226.jpg
Unfortunately flying things are just transports you take from point to point, not true mounts like horses/wolves/NE big cats/etc. :(
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-228.jpg
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-008.jpg
You Are Dead
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-034.jpg
town at night
http://www.worldofwar.net/screenshots/ingame/ingame-098.jpg

Compared to this kind of style and artistic beauty, EQ's bland artwork (that is in no way as good as D&D either, for sure, IMO) just doesn't compare when you consider all the factors.

OB1
Wow, you're like a little child who's putting his fingers in his ears and going "neener neener neener!" because he doesn't it like it when he's being told off or wrong about something. Yes, EQ2's characters are shiny, but that's nothing a quick edit in the exe file won't fix. You just have to turn down the shaders a notch. But WoW's DC textures are more realistic? :whatever: Hoooo... yowza. You need to check that eyesite of yours, ABF. WoW = pretty colors, average graphics. EQ2 = bland D&D-style art (no matter what you say), great graphics.

A Black Falcon
http://www.infoceptor.com/ibb/index.php?showtopic=12248
More nice pictures... a town from the air, several in a mine, a really cool Water Elemental, an Ogre... :) :)

ABF, as usual you don't even know what this debate is about. It's technical, not aesthetic. Aesthetics are far too subjective, and someone can consider Mario World to be the best-looking game ever simply because they love the art in the game. Personally, I consider ICO to be the most beautiful game ever made, but I would never proclaim that it has better graphics than Doom 3. Conversely, I despise Doom 3's art style but I admire its technical magnificence. WoW is aesthetically pleasing, but on a purely technical level it's pretty bad. I don't find Everquest 2 to be aesthetically pleasing but on a technical level it's really amazing for a MMORPG. And before you say it yes, aesthetics are a very important part of graphics. But when I said that EQ2 is much more graphically impressive than WoW, I made it very clear that I meant technically-speaking.

This is about which game looks better, and athetics matter a lot. Obviously EQ2 can push more polys, but who cares... WoW is hardly behind the curve graphically. Yes the character poly counts aren't super high, but they aren't super low and the environments look great too you know, better than EQ2's do...

Oh, and consider this. WoW comes out in beta in like a week. How long until we get EQ2? I don't know, but I bet it isn't this week... and also how many people will be able to play online with it looking like that? Yeah. Compared to WoW, which will be different...

alien space marine
The WOW graphics have been beefed up a little more since those old shots appeared.

http://www.blizzard.com/wow/screenshot.aspx?ImageIndex=2&Set=23

This guy looks like Gimili.

OB1
This is about which game looks better, and athetics matter a lot. Obviously EQ2 can push more polys, but who cares... WoW is hardly behind the curve graphically. Yes the character poly counts aren't super high, but they aren't super low and the environments look great too you know, better than EQ2's do...

Aesthetics are completely subjective while technical merit is not. As I said, you could call Mario World the best-looking game ever made if you think it has the best art ever. WoW is most definitely behind the graphics curve, and you can easily tell that it was created with shitty PCs in mind.

Oh, and consider this. WoW comes out in beta in like a week. How long until we get EQ2? I don't know, but I bet it isn't this week... and also how many people will be able to play online with it looking like that? Yeah. Compared to WoW, which will be different...

Again you try to spin this debate. You can't win, so you spin. So sad. This is not about which game is coming out first, which is completely irrelevent (and really, the game coming out later has even more of an edge since it's going to look even better). It's also not about which one can run on a shitty PC better. The fact that you bring that up puts a huge hole into your argument.

Great Rumbler
From a technical stand-point EQ2 has WoW beat by a hundred miles. But in terms of aesthetics WoW definitely has a better art style; EQ2 has a very Morrowind-esque art style, which isn't too great.

A Black Falcon
Win? No, you just defined the debate on your side until you won by default... in your opinion... you're the one spinning it so you can't lose your arguements, not me. I wasn't the one who tried to say tha artwork is irrelevant when we are talking about which game looks nicer! That is crazy!

See, "better" doesn't just mean technically and it never did from my side of the conversation. I've always said that the best thing about Blizz's art isn't their polycount but their brilliant artwork. Your saying it looks bad, from my view (and as I've been saying each time we have this debate and you've never really denied, especially given how you attacked WCIII too!), is your saying that you dislike their art style... which I just can't understand. WC3/WoW look so awesome!

Yes, EQ2's characters are shiny, but that's nothing a quick edit in the exe file won't fix. You just have to turn down the shaders a notch.

And you think they'll do that? :rolleyes:

Aesthetics are completely subjective while technical merit is not. As I said, you could call Mario World the best-looking game ever made if you think it has the best art ever. WoW is most definitely behind the graphics curve, and you can easily tell that it was created with shitty PCs in mind.

And that would, IMO, be a valid opinion (SMW) if you really love that art that much...

OB1
*sigh*

You're so dumb, ABF. See? GR knows what I'm talking about.

And you think they'll do that?

:erm: You can do it by yourself, doofus. Just open the main ini file and tone down the specular mapping. So difficult!

And that would, IMO, be a valid opinion (SMW) if you really love that art that much...

Yes, but nobody would say that Mario World has the best graphics in the world.

A Black Falcon
You're so dumb, ABF. See? GR knows what I'm talking about.

I could say the same thing about his comments, you know... he didn't give enough detail. Does the fact that EQ2 has more polys and a more powerful engine mean that its graphics are actually better? GR dodged the question... :)

In short, this debate depends on how you define "better". We have very different definitions.

Yes, but nobody would say that Mario World has the best graphics in the world.

No, probably not. And yes art style is a subjective thing. But still, it's a more important factor than raw polys for determining which you think looks better... see, "better" isn't a synonym for "the most impressive technically" in my book, it means "which game you think has the best look". Where "best" means what you like most, whatever factors that includes...

OB1
I could say the same thing about his comments, you know... he didn't give enough detail. Does the fact that EQ2 has more polys and a more powerful engine mean that its graphics are actually better? GR dodged the question...

He said the exact same thing that I did: that EQ2 is technically much, much more impressive-looking than WoW.

In short, this debate depends on how you define "better". We have very different definitions.

Yes, for me better means "even more positive", while for you it means "much worse".

Great Rumbler
Does the fact that EQ2 has more polys and a more powerful engine mean that its graphics are actually better? GR dodged the question...

Overall graphics are a difficult thing to judge. Each game has it's high points and low point. But...that's not the answer you want. Alright here it is, the answer to the question "Which game has better graphics?".


...


It's coming up now.


...


...


Really really soon now.


...


...


Are you sure you want to know the answer?

...


...

Okay here it is: They both win. EQ2 has a bland, generic art style, but makes up for it with high rez textures and a high polygon count. WoW has low rez textures and a low polygon count, but makes up for it with an awesome, magical art style.

A Black Falcon
He said the exact same thing that I did: that EQ2 is technically much, much more impressive-looking than WoW.

Not true. He took a middle ground, as his latest post makes clear.

Yes, for me better means "even more positive", while for you it means "much worse".

No, yours is "the one that has better graphics technically is better even though it has poor art"... though you also seem to think that WoW and WC3 have a bad art style which is completely beyond my comprehension, since I think they have about as good art as is possible.

Oh, this debate won't go anywhere if you don't take it seriously, and brushing off my comments with a "your opinion is dumb" is just bad debating. Look, it's obvious that we are debating this because we have different opinions of "better' and instead of making some stupid joke on mine which makes no sense, how about just admitting the obvious: you knew that you could not win this arguement based on a definition of "better" like I have used all along because Warcraft clearly schools the opposition on that category, so you redefined the term to exclude anything other than what is best technically, where WoW loses, just to prove how much you hate Blizzard's art... it really is quite bizarre, you know. I just can't understand how you dislike their artwork.

Great Rumbler
Not true. He took a middle ground, as his latest post makes clear.


From technical only standpoint EQ2 DOES look many times better WoW, it's when you put everything together where there's a tie.

A Black Falcon
How about the terrain and trees, though... :)

And as I said, the middle ground. How OB1 took your comments to being agreeing with him, I don't know...

Great Rumbler
Technical, ABF. Technical means textures and polygons and there's no possibly way to deny that WoW has better textures or more polygons than EQ2. You just can't.

How about the terrain and trees, though...

Technically, no. Artistically, yes.

A Black Falcon
Crossed-poly trees are ugly!

EQ2 has very nice water, but the trees and land... not so good.

And yes, obviously EQ2 is a more powerful engine, that's impossible to deny... and the game doesn't look hideous or anything, it just looks like 'bland semi-realistic fantasy', like they're trying to make that fantasy world look like a real one but stopped partway... the overall look is just not good. Give me a consistent and artistically beautiful game like WoW anyday.

On a similar vein, the graphics in Rayman 2 impressed me a whole lot more than plenty of games that are a lot newer...

Oh, and I never mentioned technical graphics as the basis for the arguement, OB1 did... I've been saying the exact opposite since the beginning, you know...

OB1
Not true. He took a middle ground, as his latest post makes clear.

GR said exactly what I said, dummy. From a technical standpoint EQ2 is a million times more impressive-looking.

No, yours is "the one that has better graphics technically is better even though it has poor art"... though you also seem to think that WoW and WC3 have a bad art style which is completely beyond my comprehension, since I think they have about as good art as is possible.

Oh, this debate won't go anywhere if you don't take it seriously, and brushing off my comments with a "your opinion is dumb" is just bad debating. Look, it's obvious that we are debating this because we have different opinions of "better' and instead of making some stupid joke on mine which makes no sense, how about just admitting the obvious: you knew that you could not win this arguement based on a definition of "better" like I have used all along because Warcraft clearly schools the opposition on that category, so you redefined the term to exclude anything other than what is best technically, where WoW loses, just to prove how much you hate Blizzard's art... it really is quite bizarre, you know. I just can't understand how you dislike their artwork.

I never said I didn't like their art, that's just a lie you made up because that is the only way you can debate. You lose ground so you make up shit. Classic ABF. Their art is fine. Not amazing, but fine. If you want to be superb video game art, play ICO.

alien space marine
EQ2 graphics are built for higher end Pcs and WOW is for average household computers but still looks great.If WOW was on the same high end res as EQ2 it would smash EQ2 blandness with superior art.

A Black Falcon
I never said I didn't like their art, that's just a lie you made up because that is the only way you can debate. You lose ground so you make up shit. Classic ABF. Their art is fine. Not amazing, but fine. If you want to be superb video game art, play ICO.

Um, you must be reading some debate other than this one, because I've been very, very consistent... I have NOT changed my line of arguement. Not at all. And you proved my point again -- the real reason you're doing this is because for some reason you don't like their art. I never said that WoW had a better graphics engine than EQ2. You are arguing about something I am not...

Because, see, as I said, I've been saying "better", ie what you like, not 'which pushes the most polys'. Its very sad that you don't seem to get the idea that you are the one who changed the debate when you saw you could not win, not me...

I've seen Ico. Very stylish, but not like this... for one I don't recall it being cartoonish...

OB1
:erm:

I didn't say you were changing your argument, I said that you're making up lies as per usual. When did I say that I hate the WC art style? You're making shit up. This was always about which game had better graphics, not which game has the better art style. EQ2 has far superior graphics to WoW. When people use the word "graphics" with games it's usually a technical thing.

And so ICO can't have amazing artwork because it's not cartoony? :erm:

A Black Falcon
Given the number of times you have attacked the graphics of Warcraft III and World of Warcraft, you don't need to say you dislike their graphics to make it blatantly obvious...

And yes, it is about which has better graphics, exactly.*sigh* you still don't get it...

And about Ico I wasn't saying that, I was saying that its a somewhat different category...

OB1
GRAPHICS do not equal ART STYLE, for the MILLIONTH TIME already!

I swear ABF, with each new debate you make yourself look like even more of an idiot. Why you don't understand the difference between a technical debate and an aesthetic one is beyond me. Simple stupidity is the only answer I can come up with.

A Black Falcon
Me looking like an idiot? Sorry, but absolutely wrong. You are looking like an idiot because it took you so long to figure out what my point was... and now that you do you say that I of all people don't understand the debate. It is amazing the things you will come up with to try to no admit you lost.

See, as I've explained ten times, the only person here who was discussing only technical graphics was you...

OB1
I knew what you were saying from the beginning, you dolt. And this entire time I've been spelling out for you that this is a t-e-c-h-n-i-c-a-l debate! You're just so incredibly thick-head it amazes me.

This is my debate. I started it, and you contested my statement. So I know very well what this debate is about! You sir, are an idiot.

A Black Falcon
You said it looks bad. I debated on that using my definition of what good or bad graphics are. Simple.

OB1
I said that it's graphics suck, and I made it clear that I meant it in technical terms. Then you responded with "You're crazy! WoW has way better art!". Like I said, you're a dolt.

alien space marine
Ob1 you insulted us blizzard dorks in our faces, So we cant help but bark back!

OB1
:erm:

A Black Falcon
Exactly. What if I said "Metroid Fusion is SO UGLY! How could you like that game????"

Now technically i'd be right, because it is ugly compared to nicer 2d. But does that make my comment sane? Of course not!

Same thing here. You're insulting the graphics of one of my favorite serieses (Warcraft), graphics I love, and the even better graphics of a spinoff...

Why not just go around bashing Ocarina of Time for being so amazingly ugly, huh? Idiot.

OB1
Ah, so this is all about me calling your precious little Warcraft ugly? Hahahaha, that's so sad. The WoW graphics engine is pretty crappy, ABF.

A Black Falcon
Moron, you'd react the same way if it was a series you loved. You did when I made a tiny slight about the graphics in Metroid Zero Mission!

No, it is not. It can make beautiful environments, has huge scale (see: picture of large number of trees from hill, or plenty of big areas), and easily the best art, level look, style, and everything else from any MMORPG I've seen.

And if you'd actually play Warcraft III some you'd see how beautiful that game is. This is like that except first person, and the look is nothing short of amazing...

OB1
I said you were a fool for saying that Zero Mission only looked as good as Super Metroid. I never claimed that ZM was the best-looking game ever made. I'm more objective than you are when it comes to judging graphics. I hate Doom but I admit that Doom 3 looks better than just about anything. And by better I mean that it's the most technically-impressive game I've seen.

A Black Falcon
EverQuest 2 is not exactly the best looking game I've ever seen. :) As I said, I think the terrain and trees look awful and that the characters aren't that good... give me the trees in World of Warcraft any day, they're far better. And in this case I mean that in any sense of the term. :)

OB1
Well you see, you think that because you're touched in the head.

EQ2 is the best-looking MMORPG I've seen. Not best overall.

A Black Falcon
The artwork in WoW is so great that you almost completely ignore the poly count.

The characters, the world, buildings, mountains, seeing into the distance, trees, effects... everything... just has so much style and looks so great... it is pretty sad that you can't see that. (same as Warcraft III.)

OB1
*sigh*

You are so dumb. So, so dumb...

A Black Falcon
*sigh* You are so, so blind...

OB1
Great comeback.

A Black Falcon
I thought so. :)

My point is that if you're making such a fuss about the technical engine you clearly do not really appreciate the artwork fully, and that is sad. :(

OB1
ABF, you are the biggest idiot in the entire universe. You do know that, right?

alien space marine
ABF Rules!

A Black Falcon
OB1, just *think* for a second. Just one. I think you are intentionally trying to be as annoying as possible which is really stupid when I am trying to be reasonable here... couldn't you be serious for once? Calling me an idiot because to me and a huge number of other people the phenominal artwork Blizzard does completely overwhelms any minor and not very important issues about the poly count of the engine is just plain stupid.

Feel free to say "I'm weird and don't like Blizzard's artwork much" or something, but the way you are acting? Do you really expect me to take you seriously?

Its pretty ironic that YOU were the one complaining that DJ wasn't serious in serious threads.

OB1
I called you an idiot for being the most clueless moron to ever grace these message boards. You keep on responding to things that I never said, and I have no idea how anybody can be that stupid. I'll say "EQ2's graphics engine is so much better than WoW's" and you respond with "You are CRAZY WoW has AMAZING art I can't believe you just said that Warcraft has terrible art ARE YOU MAD???!!!".

Like I said, you're unbelievably stupid.

A Black Falcon
OB1, the fact that you're still arguing this either shows that you are unbelievably stubborn to the point of idiocy or still don't understand my point...

As I've said a million times, if you loved the Warcraft art as much as me or the millions of other Blizzard fans, you wouldn't be complaining about the engine they use! Simple! Why is that such a stupid statement? Its not. Now it is true that you didn't say that you hated the Warcraft art but just don't care much, but you know what? All that does is prove my point... not the 'hate' point, but the one I made in this post.

Its really bizarre, like you don't understand one thing I'm saying. How about, for once, actually thinking about what I say before writing another idiotic rant?

OB1
*reads above post, covers eyes with hand and cries for ABF, praying that someday he'll get that brain from The Wizard*

ABF, you are SOOO fucking stupid!! We're going in circles! Read my above posts, you stupid idiot!! I do know what you point is, and I explained in GREAT DETAIL and how fucking stupid you are for not understanding this debate!! Get a clue, moron!! Your extreme mind-fucking stupidity is destroying the universe as it tries to contemplate your inane remarks.

A Black Falcon
Then actually talk about my point instead of just insulting me!

And why do you think I don't understand this debate? I don't get that at all... I've been very consistent, certainly, and as far as I can see have said exactly why I disagree with you...

Did I ever say that Warcraft III's engine is technically better than EverQuest 2's? No, I did not. So I fail to see how I have not seen your so-called point...

OB1
I DID, you brain-dead monkey!! I never said anything negative about Blizzard's art style! I said that their WoW graphics engine was crappy! That's it!! But you're so insanely fucking stupid that you've been totally unable to comprehend that thought.

A Black Falcon
I added some to that post... reread it. :)

And if that's really true, then respond to this. You haven't yet.

As I've said a million times, if you loved the Warcraft art as much as me or the millions of other Blizzard fans, you wouldn't be complaining about the engine they use! Simple!

The way you are acting would be like if when I came here in fall '99 I was bashing Ocarina of Time for having a graphics engine that isn't as good as the best available out there... I'd call that a resonable analogy, actually, because like OoT this game has awesome style and art. :)

OB1
This isn't and has never been about art styles, moron. It's about EQ2 being technically superior to WoW. You contested that claim from the very beginning by saying that WoW looks better. WoW looks like shit. Nice art, but shitty graphics.

A Black Falcon
Heh, no, as I've explained ten times I meant overall including the art, not just the technical side!

OB1
Yes, and that's precisely why you're so stupid! I stated very clearly that I meant it in technical terms, yet you continued to argue that the art is great, when no one said otherwise!!

A Black Falcon
Look, when you attack the engine like that am I expected to just say "its bad"? I don't think its a bad engine! Its perfectly good. Is it top of the line? No. But it does the job it has to more than well enough. It allows Blizzard to let their art style out in a great fashion. Thus it is a good engine. :)

The real problem is that in the beginning you don't seem to have understood my meaning when I said how great the game's graphics are (and thus attacked them). Not in this post, even, the first time we argued about this...

OB1
It's a crappy engine by today's standards.

A Black Falcon
See, that's exactly what I'm talking about when I say that when you hate the engine so much it very strongly bends your credibility when you try to say you don't dislike (to some extent) the artwork!

OB1
:erm:

You make no sense at all, boy. OoT has a shitty engine by today's standards but I still like the art in the game.

A Black Falcon
Are you so thick-headed you can't see yourself almost making my points for me? :)

Great Rumbler
I like the artwork a lot, it's very good, but the engine...it's very low-end.

OB1
Are you so thick-headed you can't see yourself almost making my points for me?


Gah, what is inside that head of yours?? Lots of old cream cheese, or something??!

A bad graphics engine does not equal poor art style, for the ten-fucking-billionth time already!!!! A good graphics engine will give the artists more freedom and enable them to produce better artwork, but a skilled artist can make nice art even with a crappy engine. But that still doesn't make the engine any better. The graphics (TECHNICAL TERM HERE) still suck.

A Black Falcon
You know, you're the only person I know of actually saying that WoW doesn't look good... because most people judge it by more than just its engine... no previews saying "the engine isn't the best but..."...

And when the engine is more than good enough, like this one is, I don't mind at all if its not better. It just doesn't matter.

OB1
Of course it does. People say that Doom 3 has superb graphics but that's most certainly not because of its art style. It pushes a lot of polygons, has amazing lighting, textures, etc.

A Black Falcon
Yes, and then they say WoW has great graphics because of its art... there's a reason Gamespot has seperate awards for technical and artistic graphics...

OB1
Yes, and I've said that already! WoW has terrible graphics, technically-speaking. That gamespot example only helps my point.

A Black Falcon
So, so, sad... who cares about just the technical graphics? Why do you? I don't get it... and anyway the engine is not nearly as awful as you suggest. It looks great in a lot of shots. No it doesn't compete with EQ2 for polys, or some other modern MMORPGs (though most are behind the curve), but I don't see why you're making such a big deal out of something that matters so little... the overall look of the engine is what matters and it looks great.

OB1
The art is fine but the engine is crap, so it can only look so good. You turned this into a big deal. LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO!

A Black Falcon
You did when you insulted WoW. And the engine is okay. Seriously... this is ugly? :erm:

http://www.gamespy.com/screenshots/pc/wow/january04/05.jpg

OB1
It's okay. It would have looked impressive three years ago. But today? Don't make me laugh.

Blizzard is good at gameplay, not graphics. Live with it.

A Black Falcon
Not when Blizzard makes great graphics... top of the line? Why bother with the effort when almost none of the fans will actually be able to PLAY the game that way? And especially when your artwork is among the best in the industry! A perfectly competent engine which has plenty of flash and beauty and the best gameplay in the industry is all they need. :)

Their one big graphical thing was Warcraft II -- it was one of the first SVGA games, after all, and for late 1995 looked absolutely amazing.

OB1
Wanna see great graphics, ABF? These are great graphics:

http://www.farcry-thegame.com/ss/8.jpg

http://www.actiontrip.com/previews/pics/farcry_p21.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/pc/farcry/1117/far_screen018.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/screen0/371314_20031218_screen001.jpg

A Black Falcon
What game? Looks kind of like Far Cry, for some of them at least...

And as I said, what it lacks in detail it more than makes up for in style. Especially in the graphics-challenged MMORPG genre...

OB1
Whatever helps you sleep at night, boy.

Yeah that's Far Cry.

A Black Falcon
Impressive looking game. I remember it started out as a techdemo with a room with an amazingly detailed tree in it...

OB1
Yes.

Great Rumbler
I've seen better looking games...IN MY MIND!!

OB1
Haha, same here!

The best part about the game is the level editor.

Great Rumbler
Sounds cool.

OB1
It's the shiznit.

Great Rumbler
No, it's the shizNITE!!

OB1
yeah! ...heh.... yup...

A Black Falcon
Trouble for Far Cry...
http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=20470
I wonder what happens now, but that does NOT sound good.

Gamespy is idiotic. I know that I often disagree with their reviews (their recent score of 3/5 for R-Type Final when IGN and Gamespot both gave it a bit over an 8/10 does not make them look good, for one recent example), but still... I thought they had SOME sanity...
http://www.gamespy.com/top10/february04/rts/
:barf:

Gamespy, Gamespy... what an abysmal list... Empire Earth on the list?? Medieval an RTS (TBS/RTS hybrid guys!)? Close Combat an RTS (its a wargame!)? C&C Red Alert better than Warcraft II? TOTAL ANNIHALATION THE BEST RTS EVER??? Morons, utter morons... that game competed with SC for popularity in early 1998, but it didn't take long for most people to figure out which was the better game.

Where is Conquest (should have done better than it did), Netstorm (I know not many people would put this in their top 5, but I'm one of them), Warcraft II (easily still better than most of the games on their list), Red Alert 2 (better than RA1)... heck, even Warzone 2100 (if that was the name, a early 3d-but-topdown RTS that was pretty fun...) is better than Empire Earth... someone must have hit Gamespy pretty hard with the stupid stick at some point.

And I've played some TA... okay game, but highly overrated among its fans and really not that good. This certainly is reopening some old wars... I remember TA-versus-Warcraft II and then TA-versus-Starcraft... I of course have never thought it was that good and that the Blizz games blew it away... 150 units? Are you insane? What in the world is the point? And its a fairly mindless RTS too, more in the C&C vein... fine for people who just want to see the cool 200 tanks run over the badguys but not so fine for people who want much actual strategy, I should think.

Stupid Gamespy, I thought we won this four years ago... :)

OB1
Geez, that's insane. But ve3d updated on the situation:

Update: Ubisoft just got back to me with an official statement:


"Ubisoft was informed on Wednesday, in the beginning of the afternoon, of the search of the premises of Crytek the same morning. We cannot give any comments on the judicial enquiry concerning the management of Crytek and we hope that the suspicion of a fraudulent use of an image-treatment software reveals to be unfounded.
The Crytek team has started working again normally as of Wednesday, 2 pm and works relentlessly on the finalisation of Far Cry. The game will ship as planned at the end of March."



Whew!

A Black Falcon
Looks like it might ship, but we'll see... if the charges are accurate they could be in a lot of trouble, and it's a problem because the game hasn't shipped yet...

Oh, and if it was going to happen, no surprise that it happened because of a disgruntled ex-employee, I must say...

OB1
Remind me to be nice to my employees and not hire stupid people when I form my own game design studio. :D

A Black Falcon
Yeah. :)

OB1
So remind me not to hire you. :lol: Hahaha... aaahh...

Great Rumbler
You can hire me! And then give me a high-paying executive job where I don't have to do anything all day except play videogames and then right before the company implodes we can cash out and become super-rich while everyone else gets nothing!! Bwahahahaha!!

A Black Falcon
I wouldn't do something like that... :)

OB1
ABF would just drive everyone to insanity.

Great Rumbler
Hey! I know what we could do! We could set up ABF as our rival and use him to convince people to invest in our company!

A Black Falcon
And you (OB1) would drive them away by being constantly hostile. I mean, seriously, what happened to you? Its like (recently) you decided to stop acting sane and from now on just be as annoying and idiotic as possible, and its getting very old.

OB1
You've been acting even more idiotic and annoying than usual, so I fight back.

A Black Falcon
I have done nothing differently and you've come up with stupider and stupider reasons to be incredibly annoying. So I don't care about Bo Jackson. So? Why must you make like fifteen posts a day that are just his name? Now if you actually followed baseball and had a point about him as a player or something then it might be different, but you don't care and are just doing it to annoy me... and that's just one example of dozens recently where I do next to nothing and you react in an extreme or idiotic way... you are just trolling and I'm really tired of it.

A Black Falcon
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/farcry/news_6087423.html

Wonder what really happened...

OB1
Believe it or not, I'm not mentioning Bo Jackson because I'm trying to annoy you. It has nothing to do with you.

A Black Falcon
Right, and the Captain Falcon sig wasn't there to annoy me either. :rolleyes:

OB1
Wha? No, I just thought it was hilarious.

A Black Falcon
And then you proceeded to annoy me with it purely by accident...

OB1
Hey it's not my fault if you completely lack a sense of humor.

A Black Falcon
If you honestly think that... well you must not pay much attention here...

Some things are funny. The sig wasn't that bad. It's all the attacks that are... how every time I say anything you have to attack it, regardless of how innocuous it was...

OB1
You deserve every single bit and then some.

Great Rumbler
ABF attacked me for liking SC4. It made me very sad and depressed. :( *cries*

OB1
Yeah he sucks.

A Black Falcon
No I didn't... I said that SC4 was a fine game, I'm sure... I just attacked you for saying it was better than a series YOU HADN'T PLAYED!

Great Rumbler
But...but you were mean and said things that hurt my feelings!

OB1
Yeah death to ABF!

Great Rumbler
Woo! Death to ABF Party!

Hey! Death to ABF almost rhymes!

A Black Falcon
But you were being irrational, GR!

OB1
Go Joe!

Great Rumbler
HAHAHAHAHA!!! :D :D

But you were being irrational, GR!

You were being mean! Besides you said XGRA was at the top of your list of racing games and you haven't played it.

OB1
.

A Black Falcon
GR, I meant my list of racing games I wanted to get... which should have been obvious given that I had just said something like 'I want Burnout 2 but it isn't on top of my list'... also on that list are XG1 for N64, Rush 2 for N64, and several others...

And sorry if I sounded mean, but while the SimCity series is a great, classic, series, Civilization is just ... special...

OB1
Like the special olympics?

Great Rumbler
:D

but while the SimCity series is a great, classic, series, Civilization is just ... special...

Well that's the way I feel about Simcity.

A Black Falcon
Fine, but it is extremely foolish to argue your position, and you know it...

Oh, and I played SimCity well before I played Civ, so its not like its because I played it first... it is just that Civilization II is a nearly unparallelled achievement... but if you had played it, you'd certainly be entitled to your opinion.

OB1
I think you are dumb.

Case closed.

A Black Falcon
You act like this in a lot of threads and try to deny that you're acting like an idiot recently? I mean, if you had played these games it'd be different, but have you even played SimCity much?

And when we had a poll it split, with like one person who had played both games choosing SimCity and the rest choosing it because they hadn't played Civ...

OB1
I'm saying you're dumb because of the way you act.

A Black Falcon
I don't act dumb. If you take it that way it's your problem, not mine...

OB1
:erm:

A Black Falcon
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/lineage2thechaoticchronicle/screenindex.html

Lineage 2 is quite nice looking...

Laser Link
Scuse me. I thought this was about WoW. I am quite looking forward to this game.

alien space marine
every game has fucking High elves!

I am glad blizzard is not going to add the blood elves untill the exspansion.

A Black Falcon
No High Elves as a playable race here...

And LL it would have been if OB1 wasn't an idiot.

OB1
You're the idiot, ABF. Always have been, always will be.

A Black Falcon
I'm so sad, OB1. Please forgive my stupidness.

OB1
Well... I'll try.

A Black Falcon
Get help. It's quite obvious you edited my post. And calling me an idiot for THIS thread is sheer lunacy. It's not my fault you don't fully appreciate how great Blizzard is!

A Black Falcon
New shots...

http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/ss151.jpg
http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/534914_20040210_screen007.sized.jpg
http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/534914_20040210_screen008.sized.jpg
http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/ss147.jpg
http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/534914_20040210_screen002.sized.jpg
http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/534914_20040210_screen004.sized.jpg
Gnomes? :D
http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/ss152.jpg
http://www.infoceptor.com/wow/gallery/albums/2004screenshots/ss149.jpg

OB1
Get help. It's quite obvious you edited my post. And calling me an idiot for THIS thread is sheer lunacy. It's not my fault you don't fully appreciate how great Blizzard is!

You're an idiot, ABF. You ruined your own damn thread because you couldn't stand that WoW has a subpar graphics engine.

A Black Falcon
You are so, so incredibly stupid here that it's kind of hard to imagine how you manage to not realize how dumb you are acting...

But if I must repeat myself for the millionth time.

-Art > Technical (in general not just here)

-WC/WoW Art = Really, Really Good

-WoW Art = Better than anything else I know of in the genre

-Thus WoW Graphics = Great

It's a simple line of thought and if you had a quarter of a brain you'd have realized five pages ago that that is what I mean and that it is an inarguable point. Oh sure you can argue about how good their art is but that is pure opinion and personal taste and has nothing to do with anything about anyone being "stupid" as you constantly claim. The fact that you continue to make a issue of personal taste (how much one likes Blizzard's artwork, which like it or not IS the central issue here no matter how much you pitifully attempt to deny it) something that involves stupidity and sount like you MEAN IT shows sheer idiocy on your part.

Oh and "think" before you respond, for once, it'd be a welcome change...

OB1
Great rebuttal as always, Brian! Haha, and you say you never resort to name-calling...

A Black Falcon
Yeah, says Mr. "I Insult every time I realize my arguements can't win"... compared to any insults I have for you you probably have at least ten or fifteen aimed my way, minimum.

Oh and I added a lot to that post. But the list of points (of my arguement in this thread) is the most important part.

OB1
-OB1 > ABF

-ABF < stupid

-Thus ABF = dumber than dumb

A Black Falcon
It's a simple line of thought and if you had a quarter of a brain you'd have realized five pages ago that that is what I mean and that it is an inarguable point. Oh sure you can argue about how good their art is but that is pure opinion and personal taste and has nothing to do with anything about anyone being "stupid" as you constantly claim. The fact that you continue to make a issue of personal taste (how much one likes Blizzard's artwork, which like it or not IS the central issue here no matter how much you pitifully attempt to deny it) something that involves stupidity and sount like you MEAN IT shows sheer idiocy on your part.

As I said.

And you still seem to be missing the fact that I've never said they have the most technically advanced engine, as I've said a hundred times in this thread and you claim to read but consistently ignore...

OB1
You're an idiot, Brian. I sincerely hope you know that.

WoW's graphics engine sucks. That is all I ever said.

A Black Falcon
And all I ever said is that it's plenty good for the art style they are aiming for. Oh sure it'd be cool if there were twice as many polys but why push it? They might have to cut back on the art or detail in some ways to do that to make the game playable on a modern computer system. Myself, I'll take the "lesser" engine that allows for more details and stuff over the "better" engine that doesn't really do that... and of course Blizz's art department makes the whole issue just about irrelevant. :)

OB1
You're so fucking boring, Brian. Unbelievably so.

A Black Falcon
Yeah I know it's so boring to like artwork you think is good.

OB1
It's so fucking boring to hear you repeat the same damn thing over and over and ignore the same damn thing over and over.

A Black Falcon
I think you are describing yourself there. Look at this thread -- all you do is repeat yourself! That's why I repeat myself... if you changed anything I would too to react, but you don't...

OB1
I have to repeat myself because you can't comprehend a damn thing I say!

A Black Falcon
Funny, that's what I think too... you don't understand anything I say so I repeat myself and then when you do "understand" it's gone too long so now you can't back down and absolutely refuse to conceive of the idea that I might have a point... this is a PERFECT example of that.

OB1
*bangs head on wall*

You're an absolute dumbass, ABF. Good grief. You're a broken record! A broken, retarded record that only plays crappy music!

A Black Falcon
I wouldn't be if you were less annoying!

OB1
That's IT!

*packs bags, prepares for trip to Maine in order to beat the shit out of ABF*

A Black Falcon
Oh I'm so scared now...

But if you were less stubborn you'd see that I'm right. See because my position DOES NOT MEAN YOURS IS WRONG! Do you get that? No? Didn't think so...

OB1
Your position (art) has absolutely nothing to do with my position (technical).

A Black Falcon
My position on technical is that it's good enough, as I've said before. Not the best, but good enough to show off the art well. And it can show a lot of stuff on screen and I'm sure it'll run on a midrange system better than most of those more graphically ambitious ones ever will, which is another goal of Blizz's...

OB1
Sure it's "good enough", but it's hardly a graphically impressive game.

A Black Falcon
Then why do all the major gaming sites seem to be drooling over it, including IGN?

OB1
Nobody is "drooling" over the graphics in the game.

A Black Falcon
A bit of an overstatement but they aren't exactly saying that they are in any way deficient, that's for sure.

OB1
That's because there aren't many MMORPGs that look better. The genre is filled with ugly titles.

A Black Falcon
And shouldn't that tell you something? Like how in a MMORPG environment it's tougher to do good graphics?

I wonder how much people will have to tune down EQ2 to get it to run on a average computer...

OB1
I don't care how it looks compared to most MMORPGs. It doesn't look that great, period.

A Black Falcon
... you are being so incredibly stupid that continuing this discussion would be pointless. IT SHOULD BE COMPARED TO SIMILAR GAMES OBVIOUSLY!

And anyway as I said a thousand times I just don't see why you care so much if the technical engine is a bit behind, given the level of detail and art that really shouldn't matter...

OB1
You're a poop face, ABF.

There, I said it. Happy now?

A Black Falcon
Oh yes that sure clears up this arguement...

OB1
There's only one "e" in argument!

A Black Falcon
Oh horror a minor spelling mistake!

OB1
You do it every single time!

Great Rumbler
...

...

WoW's graphics engine really isn't that great.

OB1
I know!

Great Rumbler
I knew that you know!

OB1
That's pretty darn crazy!

Great Rumbler
Crazier than a fox!

OB1
Yeah! ... those animals are pretty nutty...

alien space marine
Poop in your mouth!

:haha:

OB1
Haha... heh.... um....

Great Rumbler
:shake:

A Black Falcon
You are an idiot. That is all.

OB1
Good one!

*claps for ABF's awesome comeback*

Great Rumbler
Woo!! ABF Comeback Party!!

OB1
Yay!

Hahaha... we are pretty annoying...

In an AWESOME way!

Great Rumbler
In a way full awesomnity!

A Black Falcon
There is nothing else appropriate to say when you completely ignore all of my arguements and continue to repeat your statements that I've proven to be based on fallacious premises as if they were still completely valid!

OB1
*waits for ABF's response*

*twiddles fingers*

A Black Falcon
You missed it writing your reply. :D

OB1
My statements are perfectly valid. WoW has a crap graphics engine. End of debate.

A Black Falcon
And do you honestly think that that statement counters any of my major arguements (ignoring the fact that like usual you greatly overstate things)?

Great Rumbler
Great Rumbler say he who is foolish is one who does not admit his faults.

...

Yeah...I don't really know how this is relevant either...

Smoke-X
You two are still arguing about WoW's graphics?!

Are WoW's graphics as technically impressive as EQ2's? No.
Do EQ2's graphics look like shit anyway? Yes! :D

Art style goes a long way with me. Plus I can't stand the plastic looking characters in EQ2.

I'll admit I'm biased against EQ2 though. Only because I "played" (I use the term very loosely) the original EverQuest. I only played the game for a short while but it basically boiled down too:

1)Walk up to monster.
2)Attack monster.*
3)Wait for monster to die.
4)Repeat steps 1-3

*Skip step 2 by turning on auto-attack!

Now I realize that's just the monster bashing part of the game. Problem is that's all EQ was, a monster bashing game. Also reffered to as "the level treadmill". You kill monsters to gain experience to level up so you can kill more powerful monsters to gain experience to level up until you finally reach the max level. Then it's all about big guild runs. Don't belong to a big guild? Aww, too bad.

World of Warcraft is nothing like this.
First of all WoW's combat is so much deeper. There's too many details for me to list them all so check out the warrior class page (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior.shtml) for an idea of how melee combat will work. While you're at it you should check out the brand spanking new World of Warcraft Community Site (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com)!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Rejoice, for the beta is at hand! That also means the lifting of the NDA. Watch for lot's of new info in the coming days.

alien space marine
They added cooking as a trade skill :shake:

Whats neat is every class has a special unlockable secret , Paladins can get the Charger horse , Warlocks can get nightmares.

A Black Falcon
Are WoW's graphics as technically impressive as EQ2's? No.
Do EQ2's graphics look like shit anyway? Yes!


Exactly! As I said, Art > Technical. The main problem in this "debate" is making OB1 understand that I THINK ART > TECHNICAL... it's like he thinks it's absurd or something, I don't get it...

OB1's latest comment there that he thinks that saying the graphics engine is poor ends the debate irrevocably proves that after 7 pages he still doesn't understand that amazingly simple point I have said to him about five hundred times. And it's REALLY getting old.