View Thread : X-Box Next...


A Black Falcon
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/7849191.htm

Great Rumbler
Microsoft is far more concerned about keeping the cost of its Xbox Next console low than it is with including dazzling technological features

Interesting.

As a result, Microsoft seems to have decided that saving the $50 the hard drive costs outweighs its benefits.

Memory cards here we come!

A Black Falcon
Also note how it uses IBM CPUs that are like PowerPCs -- Mac hardware, like the GC... from Microsoft!

Dark Jaguar
And, while both Nintendo (not sure if that was official) and Sony have announced the next gen systems will be backwards compatible, MS has made the fatal flaw in making their next console, well, not so much...

Then there's the hard disk thing...

You know, next gen systems are supposed to IMPROVE on previous consoles. This seems like a step backwards (you KNEW that sentence was what I was going to say, and even if I didn't say it you'd have left this post thinking I did!). Seriously, bad idea MS. A lot of people made fun of MS just before the X-Box came out for various reasons they generally just made up as they went along (it'll crash all the time because it's MS, it'll need to be patched, it'll just be a computer so I'll just get one of those, MS suxors) and two actual things to complain about (system size and controller size). The imaginary stuff was just imaginary so that faded away well enough. With the other two, well, it's a CONSOLE so who cares if it's the size of a VCR most of the time (though if I'm moving it to another room, I do wish it was lighter :D). The second one, the one problem that would actually matter, was fixed by MS after many complaints. Overall the XBox was a very well designed system with it's main flaw fixed after some time.

You know, I do believe WE are being used right now though. I think MS made this announcement not because they actually PLAN on making the next version more powerful but without all the stuff that made the original nice in the first place, but rather to "feel out" how we the public would feel about it. I make myself sick realizing that I'm here, TALKING about it ONLINE JUST as they wanted me to! UGH! Nintendo does the SAME thing all the time.

MS is likely basing their decision on this, RIGHT NOW, on what they are reading on various message boards. We are frickin' puppets on the other side of glass. Now THERE'S a mixed metaphore...

Great Rumbler
Yeah, it's possible that they'll change those things before they release it.

OB1
Sounds like MS is trying to be like Nintendo, which I think is a bad thing. The HDD is the single best thing MS did for consoles. It makes online gaming so much better. I don't want to have to buy five memory cards so that I can save all of those Splinter Cell 4 levels. Ugh, I was hoping this EGM rumor would turn false (EGM reported on this in their rumor section a few months ago).

A Black Falcon
Read the article. It is quite interesting. Essentially it says that MS will follow Sony's lead. If the PS3 has a hard drive then the X-Box 2 will suddenly generate one, for instance...

"Possible" they might change their minds? You didn't read it, did you... or didn't read clearly. It makes it very clear that they seem pretty indecisive and even things they have decided on if market conditions (read: the PS3) change...

And the HDD was a good move, but it was a huge money-loser... and it made the system even bigger. They want to increase profitability and decrease the size of the thing, you know. Oh, the size thing was a real problem in the Japanese market. I know the fact that it's an American company hurt a lot, but the huge size sure didn't help any...

OB1
No I didn't read the article. But no HDD would be a serious mistake for them. It's the best thing about the X-Box. Online gaming would be seriously crippled without it.

A Black Falcon
But they're losing all kinds of money from it and want to cut down costs... but as the article says, just letting Sony play leader and following them like they seem to be doing could have negative consequences...

OB1
They're going to lose even more money when they have nothing else to offer than being an imitation of Sony. Copying Sony's hardware decisions is the dumbest thing you can do. Sony almost always does stupid things with their hardware. That's not why they're #1.

alien space marine
Backwards compatibility is worthless after a year the new console is released,Would you play halo 1 if you had halo 2? exactly!only the most hardcore gamers will play the old games 2-3 years after the new console and its games are released.Most people that will buy xbox2 probaily have the xbox original anyways.

OB1
Yeah but then they can't sell it. I plan on selling my PS2 when I get a PS3. I need the space!

A Black Falcon
Yeah, not having backwards compatibility like they are thinking is an amazingly dumb decision... probably brought on by the very different hardware, but still very stupid. I don't get Microsoft here... they need to differentiate themselves from Sony, not copy... and the HDD is their biggest thing. Yes it loses money, but the benefit should make up for that I think. They clearly think differently though...

OB1
Well I guess all we can hope for is that Sony packs in a HDD with the PS3.

A Black Falcon
And that it convinces Nintendo to too? :)

OB1
Heh, the funny thing about this is that now Sony knows that MS just plans on copying them, so they could make fake announcements up until the PS3 comes out in order to screw up MS. I can see it now: "PS3 to be powered by gerbils", "PS3 to make toast instead of play games".

A Black Falcon
Microsoft leaks details on Xbox Next
PLANS REFLECT HARD-FOUGHT BATTLE WITH SONY FOR GAMERS' DOLLARS
By Dean Takahashi
Mercury News

Microsoft has quietly circulated the specifications for its next-generation Xbox video-game console, indicating how the company plans to carry on its war against dominant player Sony.

The details suggest Microsoft is far more concerned about keeping the cost of its Xbox Next console low than it is with including dazzling technological features or driving its rivals out of the business, according to a variety of industry sources.

People familiar with Microsoft's strategy say the company apparently believes it can capture a much larger share of the market if it launches its machine before Sony fields its PlayStation 3 console in 2006.

A Microsoft spokeswoman declined to comment on strategy details.

The new Xbox reflects some tough lessons learned in the current console battle, in which Sony has outsold Microsoft 5 to 1. The Xbox has put Microsoft on the map with a generation of gamers. But it has also been a money loser, albeit a relatively small one for a company with $53 billion in cash.

Microsoft launched its Xbox console 20 months after the PlayStation 2 debut. By the time Microsoft sold 1.5 million consoles, Sony had sold more than 20 million PlayStations. To date, Microsoft has sold 13.7 million Xboxes, while Sony has sold more than 70 million. In the United States alone, console sales amounted to $3 billion in sales last year.

For gamers, the new Xbox will be impressive, giving them the ability to play fast-action, realistic 3-D games on a high-definition TV set. Microsoft's emissaries have told industry developers and publishers that the next Xbox will be ready to launch in fall 2005 with the following specifications:

• Three IBM-designed 64-bit microprocessors. The combined power of these chips means the Xbox Next will have more computing power than most personal computers. The chips are used in Apple Computer's high-end G5 PowerMac machines now.

• A graphics chip designed by ATI Technologies with speeds much faster than its upcoming R400 chip for the personal computer. This chip will help the next Xbox to display games with the resolution of high-definition TV.

• Compatibility with the original Xbox, which is based on Intel and Nvidia chips, isn't guaranteed. Microsoft is concerned it would cost too much money in hardware or in licensing fees to enable the Xbox Next to play old Xbox games. This is risky in part because Sony's strategy has been to maintain compatibility with its old consoles.

``I can't imagine that Microsoft would be so insanely stupid as to make it incompatible,'' said Jon Peddie, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research in Tiburon.

Microsoft is leaving itself wiggle room to react to competitive moves by Sony and Nintendo. A few details are to be decided. In contrast with the current Xbox, the next one will have no hard disk drive -- unless Sony puts one in the PlayStation 3. Instead, the console will rely on flash memory to store saved games and permanent data, much like the current PlayStation 2.

The machine also will have about 256 megabytes of dynamic random access memory. But Microsoft will upgrade that to 512 gigabytes if Sony puts in more. The previous Xbox had 64 megabytes. And lastly, it isn't clear if Microsoft will include the current DVD video technology or Blu-Ray, its successor. Blu-Ray will hold much more data, but it's unclear when it will be ready for market.

The current Xbox has an eight-gigabyte hard disk drive. That drive is useful for online games and storing game art, but many developers chose not to make use of it. As a result, Microsoft seems to have decided that saving the $50 the hard drive costs outweighs its benefits.

In telling the developers what will be in the box, Microsoft is helping them get started on games that will be ready when the console launches. But it is also soliciting feedback, and some developers are pushing Microsoft to make changes.

``I would really like to see a hard disk drive in the box,'' said Tim Sweeney, chief executive officer of Epic Games in Raleigh, N.C., who has made his opinions known to Microsoft. ``For a console to really have a useful online component, it has to have the hard drive to store downloaded maps and other data.''

Sweeney says it is dangerous for Microsoft to wait until Sony reveals the details of the PlayStation 3 or to pay too much attention to cost issues.

``Sony isn't as motivated to launch a new console because it is No. 1,'' he said. ``If Microsoft waits for them, it is in effect allowing Sony to design Microsoft's box.''

Regarding cost issues, a Microsoft spokeswoman would only say, ``Microsoft is in this for the long term.''

Developers like Sweeney say they are pleased it will be apparently easy to develop games for Microsoft's new box. That was one of the main advantages that Microsoft has had over its rivals. Current information about the PlayStation 3, sketchy as it is, indicates that it could be extremely difficult for developers to master.

The top executives of both Electronic Arts and Activision said this week that they have not received formal ``software development kits'' from Microsoft yet, but they did say they have begun creating next-generation games. Internally, Microsoft has begun developing game prototypes, and it is using G5 systems to do so.

The same developers who have seen the Microsoft specifications say Sony hasn't shared as much data with them. Sony appears to be willing to wait until 2006, in part so that it can milk the profits from the current generation PlayStation 2. In the meantime, Sony is launching an all-in-one PS 2/video recording box dubbed the PSX and the PlayStation Portable.

Microsoft's schedule may change -- it has a big meeting coming up for developers this month. But for now it appears it will release information about the new box at both the Game Developers Conference in San Jose in March and at the Electronic Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles in May.


Read it then come back to me. :)

OB1
But I don't want to...

A Black Falcon
Then you are incredibly lazy and dumb for making arguements based on nothing!

OB1
:erm:

This is an argument?

A Black Falcon
Points, then. Same meaning the way I used the word. Lazy and kind of dumb for making points based on few facts.

OB1
If what I say is incorrect then it's your own damn fault. You said "Read the article. It is quite interesting. Essentially it says that MS will follow Sony's lead. If the PS3 has a hard drive then the X-Box 2 will suddenly generate one, for instance...
"

A Black Falcon
I intentionally did not say anything in my first post in the hopes people would read it and not just base a thread on two sentences...

OB1
:erm:

I didn't quote your first post. I quoted the post where you said that MS is going to do whatever Sony does.

A Black Falcon
.
``I would really like to see a hard disk drive in the box,'' said Tim Sweeney, chief executive officer of Epic Games in Raleigh, N.C., who has made his opinions known to Microsoft. ``For a console to really have a useful online component, it has to have the hard drive to store downloaded maps and other data.''

Sweeney says it is dangerous for Microsoft to wait until Sony reveals the details of the PlayStation 3 or to pay too much attention to cost issues.

Microsoft is leaving itself wiggle room to react to competitive moves by Sony and Nintendo. A few details are to be decided. In contrast with the current Xbox, the next one will have no hard disk drive -- unless Sony puts one in the PlayStation 3. Instead, the console will rely on flash memory to store saved games and permanent data, much like the current PlayStation 2.

The machine also will have about 256 megabytes of dynamic random access memory. But Microsoft will upgrade that to 512 gigabytes if Sony puts in more. The previous Xbox had 64 megabytes. And lastly, it isn't clear if Microsoft will include the current DVD video technology or Blu-Ray, its successor. Blu-Ray will hold much more data, but it's unclear when it will be ready for market.

OB1
...sooo, how does that ruin my "argument"*?









*which was actually a joke, and you'd know that if you weren't a souless automaton

alien space marine
The Hardrive must stay!

:type: :carrot: :violin:

A Black Falcon
It doesn't ruin your arguement. I'm just saying that reading it would make your statements better...

OB1
What did I say wrong?

A Black Falcon
Sounds like MS is trying to be like Nintendo, which I think is a bad thing. The HDD is the single best thing MS did for consoles. It makes online gaming so much better. I don't want to have to buy five memory cards so that I can save all of those Splinter Cell 4 levels. Ugh, I was hoping this EGM rumor would turn false (EGM reported on this in their rumor section a few months ago).

MS is NOT trying to be like Nintendo. :)

OB1
Sure they are. They want to do things the cheap way and stick to gaming-only.

A Black Falcon
No. They are trying to keep up with Sony. Nintendo isn't.

OB1
I said that before you said that they want to copy Sony.

A Black Falcon
Which was my point about you acting on lack of info! You sure are forgetful...

OB1
You're an idiot, ABF.

A Black Falcon
Uh, that's your standard reaction, but wrong in this case. I mean, I said 'this is an example of why you should read before reacting'. You said 'why?'. I proved why. And then you seem to have forgotten why I posted it! And I'm the stupid one? :D

OB1
You're an idiot for this entire thread. Read through it again and maybe you'll understand what I'm talking about.

A Black Falcon
For actually wanting people to "read" articles we are discussing? :erm:

Now can't we just talk about X-Box 2?

A Black Falcon
For actually wanting people to "read" articles we are discussing? :erm: No, I don't see how that is stupid. Not at all.

Now can't we just talk about X-Box 2?

alien space marine
Go Xbox! :carrot:

OB1
*sigh*

ABF, you might as well just write "I'm an idiot" at the end of each post.

Dark Jaguar
ASM YOU MORON! You said exactly before even hearing my answer! Of COURSE we'd play the old games! That's why it's there! Halo 1 when Halo 2 is out? Of course you had to pick an FPS or something. You might as well have used Mario Party, because yes in those cases you NEVER play the last one when the new one is out.

However, I WOULD TOTALLY PLAY FABLE 1 AFTER FABLE 2 CAME OUT! Idiot! We're gamers, we keep playing the old games because we enjoyed them and want to KEEP playing them! I STILL play Chrono Trigger every now and then, and enjoy romps through Super Mario Bros 1 whenever I'm bored but don't want to play a new game (for whatever reason). How can you SAY that and call yourself a gamer?!

Note: All callings of ASM as a moron were done for comedic effect, like in Futurama. Though, the person would have had to suffer SOME sort of brain damage to have said something like THAT.

A Black Falcon
*sigh*

ABF, you might as well just write "I'm an idiot" at the end of each post.

Asking people to actually know what they are talking about is one of the least idiotic things I can think of. If you mean that you think it's fine to base statements on little fact, then you are quite disturbed...

But why you're attacking me when all I've tried to do is actually discuss the topic at hand, and when reading the article is an integral part of that, is utterly bizarre.

Great Rumbler
I play old games all the time, so, to me, backwards compatibility is a big thing.

A Black Falcon
Yeah, it's very stupid to say that just because there are new games you won't want to play the old ones, I definitely agree. And it's a lot easier when you can play them all on the same machine... it is really stupid to say that new games would mean you'd not play old ones.

OB1
Asking people to actually know what they are talking about is one of the least idiotic things I can think of. If you mean that you think it's fine to base statements on little fact, then you are quite disturbed...

But why you're attacking me when all I've tried to do is actually discuss the topic at hand, and when reading the article is an integral part of that, is utterly bizarre.

You're so fucking weird, ABF. I made a joke about Sony and MS and then you responded with "Your argument is flawed and it's obvious that you didn't read the article!". I mean, how does one respond to such a bizarre post? Who's arguing? It really does seem like you're responding to posts from an alternate dimension Tendo City but for some reason your posts get sent to this dimension's Tendo City. Or maybe you translate everyone's posts into korean and back with babelfish, which is why you never seem to understand anything anyone ever says. I can't make any sense out of 95% of your posts.

A Black Falcon
That was more about annoyance about you refusing to read it than anything you said...

OB1
You called my joke a flawed argument!!

A Black Falcon
No I didn't... do I need to explain what I meant for the fourth time?

I thought it was clear that "arguement" doesn't just mean two people arguing, but also a point you make... my arguement is that xxx is yyy... look it up in the dictionary...

Oh, and your denials in this thread that its okay to not read the subject just got worse and worse as it went on. Read the thread again and you'll see what I mean. :D

alien space marine
ASM YOU MORON! You said exactly before even hearing my answer! Of COURSE we'd play the old games! That's why it's there! Halo 1 when Halo 2 is out? Of course you had to pick an FPS or something. You might as well has used Mario Party, because yes in those cases you NEVER play the last one when the new one is out.

However, I WOULD TOTALLY PLAY FABLE 2 AFTER FABLE 1 CAME OUT! Idiot! We're gamers, we keep playing the old games because we enjoyed them and want to KEEP playing them! I STILL play Chrono Trigger every now and then, and enjoy romps through Super Mario Bros 1 whenever I'm bored but don't want to play a new game (for whatever reason). How can you SAY that and call yourself a gamer?!

Note: All callings of ASM as a moron were done for comedic effect, like in Futurama. Though, the person would have had to suffer SOME sort of brain damage to have said something like THAT.

Clearly I touched a nerve in poor DJ , I dont see why my opinion is gonna effect what happens to the xbox2 are you afriad by my post that the MS people will decide to kill backwards compatibility?Putting aside your name calling , You didnt wrestle the fact that I had stated that you can still own the old console to play the old games like you do for the snes. I also stated only hardcore freaks like DJ will play outdated games till kingdom come unlike many other people . RPGs are not FPS that get outdated in a few years that is true but you will likely have played the game 100x over before the next console comes out.

A Black Falcon
Digging your grave deeper, ASM...

I also stated only hardcore freaks like DJ will play outdated games till kingdom come unlike many other people .

I think a few people here might disagree with that statement... I won't even begin to say how moronic it is. It would take too long.

You didnt wrestle the fact that I had stated that you can still own the old console to play the old games like you do for the snes.

Yes, but as OB1 said, it's a LOT easier to run them all in the same machine... saves space, time, and they sometimes give you more options (like colorized GB games in a GBC, improving PSX load times or something in PS2, etc...)...

On a related note, http://www.gamespy.com/editorials/february04/xbox2/

alien space marine
My arguement was in regards to the xbox not the other two consoles,If you had a choice between the hardrive and backwards capability I would choose the hardrive that was my arguement. Backwards capability is great for what you said sure I understand that , But the hardrive was more important for the xbox. Thats what I meant by all this ,Backwards capability is a nice feature but for me it isnt neccesarry.

A Black Falcon
It is a huge added feature... makes more people buy your system and sells more games because there is higher demand for old games. It also encourages people to get the new one because their old games will work on it... a HDD has functions and is great, but I don't know if it has as direct an impact of the average consumer's buying decisions.

alien space marine
It did on mine , You dont need to get a expensive memmory card when you got a huge hardrive and the option of downloadable content and music customization is popular with me and my freinds.HDD is a serious invest though could have been better supported it still is a great addition.So no it is a fact to be conciderd.

Backwards capability was good for the ps2 when it first came out , As the psone was still releasing FFIX and Dragonquest VII, But after the Psone dried out nobody cared and even some stores stoped selling old Psone games.After 3-4 years backwards capability loses its pinch.

A Black Falcon
But isn't it nice to be able to play your old PSX games without digging out your PlayStation and hoping it works? Same for the Game Boy, isn't it nice to just stick in a cart and know it works, not have to play original GB games on the crummy screen of the original GB?

alien space marine
I Soppose it is , But If had to choose between the hardrive or the backwards capability I would choose the hardrive.
I know some have said if the xbox2 doest have a hardrive they may not get it.

But if they had both I wouldnt have a problem with that.

A Black Falcon
Its not like its an either/or... HDD rests on Sony, it seems (or if MS grows sanity), while the HDD reasons are quite different.

Good article on why backwards compatibility on X-Box Next will be a big pain.

http://www.1up.com/article2/0,4364,1508826,00.asp

OB1
No I didn't... do I need to explain what I meant for the fourth time?

I thought it was clear that "arguement" doesn't just mean two people arguing, but also a point you make... my arguement is that xxx is yyy... look it up in the dictionary...

Oh, and your denials in this thread that its okay to not read the subject just got worse and worse as it went on. Read the thread again and you'll see what I mean.


It wasn't an argument, dumb ass! I was making a joke! Something you are very much oblivious to.

A Black Falcon
So your point was a joke. So? And as I said that WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THAT POST IN SPECIFIC! How many times must I say that?

OB1
You replied directly to my post, stupid!!

A Black Falcon
Erm... no... go back and look. You said that, then I posted the article, then you said 'i won't read it' (even though I posted the whole thing, and then I said that that means you were basing your posts/points/arguements/opinions/whatever you want to call what you were saying on not a whole lot of facts...

OB1
This is how it happened:

I wrote this:

Heh, the funny thing about this is that now Sony knows that MS just plans on copying them, so they could make fake announcements up until the PS3 comes out in order to screw up MS. I can see it now: "PS3 to be powered by gerbils", "PS3 to make toast instead of play games".


And then you responded with this:

Read it then come back to me.


Then I said:

But I don't want to...


Then you said:

Then you are incredibly lazy and dumb for making arguements based on nothing!


What argument??!!! You're so, so dumb...

A Black Falcon
Me? You still think I meant something I didn't after I clearly explained it five times? Who's stupid now?

ar·gu·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy-mnt)
n.

1.
a. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.
b. A quarrel; a dispute.
c. Archaic. A reason or matter for dispute or contention: “sheath'd their swords for lack of argument” (Shakespeare).
2.
a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life.
b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.
c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.
3.
a. A summary or short statement of the plot or subject of a literary work.
b. A topic; a subject: “You and love are still my argument” (Shakespeare).
4. Logic. The minor premise in a syllogism.
5. Mathematics.
a. The independent variable of a function.
b. The angle of a complex number measured from the positive horizontal axis.
6. Computer Science. A value used to evaluate a procedure or subroutine.
7. Linguistics. In generative grammar, any of various positions occupied by a noun phrase in a sentence.

Now... let us go over this again. I post a link. People start talking about it. You make a few comments. I ask if you read it because your comment was a bit off. You say you did not. I say you should because you'd then be accurate while you were not. You make a joke. Then I post the article, not in response to the joke (which I never responded to directly because what would be the point? Its a joke...), but in response to your statement that you didn't read it. You say you still won't read it. So I say that you are stupid for not reading it when if you did you would be able to more effectively present your opinion ("arguement"). You go off on some bizarre tangent about my definition of "arguement" and some stupid thing about me replying to the joke with the statement about your points... I don't get you at all, but I think that's because you weren't exactly paying attention to what I was saying. Go back and read it, as I said, your "arguements" (here meaning the conventional meaning) got more and more pitiful...

Would you like me to respond to said joke though? Okay, I will... funny. And it does present a legitimate point... copying Sony might bring them to a place they don't want to be...

OB1
I know what you mean by argument, jack ass. But I did not make any sort of argument.

A Black Falcon
I really don't see your point... you were saying things about the topic...

OB1
Yes, I was agreeing with everybody.

Have I told you that you're an idiot yet?

A Black Falcon
We were having a discussion. So you make no sense. And why you're making a big deal about the definition of one word that can reasonably fit in that circumstance makes even less.

OB1
I made no argument!!

A Black Falcon
You are making an idiotic arguement about nothing, you know. WHY?

2.
a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life.
b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.
c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.

Your statements in that half thread fit within this, I think...

alien space marine
Gormit the frog shut up!

Great Rumbler
What...?

A Black Falcon
Yeah, OB1, drop it. It's an irrelevant arguement.

Now discuss that interesting 1-Up article about the problems of MS and backwards compatibility.

http://www.1up.com/article2/0,4364,1508826,00.asp

Great Rumbler
Not having backwards compatibility would be a bad thing for the Xbox2, especially if the PS3 and the GC2 have it.

OB1
What in the hell are you talking about, ABF? You're such an ass face.

A Black Falcon
:troll:

Not having backwards compatibility would be a bad thing for the Xbox2, especially if the PS3 and the GC2 have it.

True, but as that article says there are significant technological hurdles they'd have to overcome... its not exactly easy to go from NVidia and Intel to ATI and IBM without some problems, you know! As that details, the NVidia chip has some propriatary NVidia pixel shaders in it so MS would either have to liscense them from NVidia and include another physical chip to do the emulation, or do it in software and lose some detail because doing it in software could be hard even for one a lot faster like this will be... and also it's a IBM chip so they'd need to run the code on that somehow... the article mentions maybe using the Connectix (Virtual PC?) technology, maybe...

alien space marine
I think they will drop the BC.Sure it would help the xbox but for all we know sony may only add two ports yet again.

A Black Falcon
Heh, Sony may... it'd be almost as stupid as MS not having backwards compatibility (though this article gives some pretty good reasons why it'll either be gone or not very good (with worse looking graphics)...)... but no one gave them credit for being really smart. :)

alien space marine
http://www.gamespy.com/top10/february04/xbox/

Interesting article about why the hardrive must stay!

A Black Falcon
PCs have all of that stuff. Well except for #1. :)

That one they have better.

geoboy
Ultimately, if Microsoft realizes how important backwards compatibility is, and depending on how much Microsoft wants to be in first place next generation, I believe they'll do (*ahem* spend) whatever it takes. It's not like Microsoft to take the "ah, screw it" approach until they are well in the lead. Meh, who am I kidding? Microsoft has always had that philosophy. At least when it comes to software. :)

A Black Falcon
Halfway is good enough!

Great Rumbler
Good enough for goverment work!

A Black Falcon
Or Microsoft.

Great Rumbler
Yeah. :D

alien space marine
:samurai: :zero: :mm: :weird: :mmx: :fairy: :explode: :spam:

A Black Falcon
http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6090040.html

A bit more details here, the no HDD looks more likely...

OB1
The HDD is the best thing about the X-Box. What idiots.

A Black Falcon
That article talks about some deal with a company who makes larger removable media things of some kind... I guess they're looking into much bigger memory cards?

OB1
IDIOTS!

Dark Jaguar
XBox has two great things going for it. That hard drive, and the built in ethernet. Neither of them are add-ons, which is of PARAMOUNT importance!

Nintendo: I can vouch for that!

Since the online adapter is built in from the get-go, everyone who has an XBox already has the tools they need to get online (save a working broadband connection). They don't have to worry about getting people to buy the online adapter for the system because it's already there. Same with the HD.

Still, if they manage to find a memory card that can store gigs of memory (oh, right they have those) and um, make them AFFORDABLE, I'd be all for using those instead of a hard drive simply due to the speed difference.

OB1
HDDs are still cheaper than memory cards, but the main difference is that you have to pay extra for memory cards. :S

geoboy
Memory cards are actually slower than hard drives, Dark Jaguar. I don't know by how much, but I know they're definitely slower. :D Especially now with the new 10,000 RPM serial ATA hard drives.

Dark Jaguar
Hmm, I was thinking cart speeds, but I suppose it's true enough that memory cards are surprisingly slow compaired to that. I guess there's reason enough for it..., for now...

alien space marine
Why dont they just get a cheaper hardrive? Much rather have no name brand toilet papper then no toilet papper.

geoboy
Hard drives will always be expensive to make and will never become cheap unless the manufacturer cuts corners, and when it comes to hard drives cutting corners can be a very bad thing. Using lower capacity hard drives wouldn't be a much cheaper option either because there really isn't a demand for smaller capacity drives so manufacturers don't produce as many of them or manufacturers have stopped producing them entirely.

Dark Jaguar
Well there are alternatives. I mean, we aren't researching, and succeeding, in making nanotechnology for nothing. I mean, they finally managed to create an engine and energy supply for nanomachines. It's basically one of those energy molecule makers in the cell but with an iron bar strapped onto the molecule, creating a spinning motion. It's actually almost hilariously simple when you think about it, but this engine is more efficient than any other engine ever made, by several times. Nano age, here we come!

A Black Falcon
Sigh... stupid people not clicking the link... DJ and I thought you said you did! You clearly didn't here.

Next Xbox to skip hard drive?


Microsoft's flash memory deal fuels rumors that the console will be hard drive-free.

Flash memory maker M-Systems announced on Wednesday that it has signed a contract to provide storage products for future versions of the Xbox, bolstering speculation that Microsoft may ditch the game console's hard drive.

M-Systems, best known for its DiskOnKey line of flash drives, which attach to a PC's Universal Serial Bus port, said in a statement that it has signed an agreement with Microsoft to develop "customized memory units for future Xbox products and services."

Ronit Maor, chief financial officer at Israel-based M-Systems, said the company could not discuss details of the contract. But Maor said the devices under development would be of significantly higher capacity than the 8MB Xbox memory units Microsoft currently sells to save game and user data. "What we're going to offer for the Xbox doesn't currently exist," Maor said.

The M-Systems announcement comes shortly after Microsoft revealed plans for expanding Xbox Live, the online game service it runs, to include limited online storage capabilities. The combination has bolstered speculation that Microsoft will drop the hard drive from the next version of the Xbox to cut production costs for the money-losing console.

Microsoft representatives declined to comment on the company's plan for next-generation Xbox hardware.

Jay Srivatsa, a senior analyst at research firm iSuppli, said the Xbox hard drive so far has been used mainly for ancillary functions like saving progress in a game, not to improve the way games work. Sacrificing the hard drive could be a relatively painless way to trim $10 or $20 per unit from production costs. "I can see why they'd attempt to do that--the hard disk usage on the current Xbox has been pretty minimal," he said. "At some point, this has got to be a profitable business for Microsoft. They have to draw some lines; look at what can they take out."

The current Xbox will gain another storage option late this year, when Microsoft releases an "extender kit" for attaching the console to a PC running Windows XP Media Center, noted P.J. McNealy, an analyst at American Technology Research. That and expanded online features could obviate the need for a hard drive, he said.

"If the network is robust enough to handle some of the processing, and you have a fast-enough connection, you can push some of the functionality of the hard drive back onto the network," McNealy said.

Richard Doherty, president of research firm The Envisioneering Group, said adding recording functionality to the Xbox's DVD drive would be a cheaper way to provide storage than a hard drive and would rob hackers of one of their primary tools for making the Xbox perform unauthorized tricks. "The hard drive became a liability in relation to those units that were hacked," Doherty said.

By David Becker, News.com [POSTED: 02/25/04 02:01 PM]

Dark Jaguar
Are you aware that link is dated AFTER you posted the first link? I was only talking about that. Just point out this stuff, don't have an attitude about it. We don't have time to read every little page you list, and while I certainly will read the links with no complaint, I just skim them if it's long and EXPECT to be corrected if I misunderstood something, but not in a rude fasion.

Anyway, here's something interesting. Seems someone reported the next XBox will not have a hard drive and will only use these special cards. Then, someone higher up said that guy was talking out of his arse pretty much. However, being a sensationalistic news source, they tried to give it artificial validity without actually lying by saying the old line "If this is true then". I HATE it when the news does that in the face of whatever thing they are saying the if line about being shown to just not be the case! IF it was true that the world is made of fire we'd all be dead right now, but it's NOT true!

Anyway, your thoughts?

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/news/news_6090737.html

alien space marine
Well I am not getting a inferior System as I dont see why I would want to go from having a hardrive too having nothing again. I think MS just needs to get more games to support it.

A Black Falcon
Are you aware that link is dated AFTER you posted the first link? I was only talking about that. Just point out this stuff, don't have an attitude about it. We don't have time to read every little page you list, and while I certainly will read the links with no complaint, I just skim them if it's long and EXPECT to be corrected if I misunderstood something, but not in a rude fasion.

They change the date when they alter the story in some fashion, which is what I assume is what happened here...

As for that news, it really just follows on the first one. Still, it's an interesting story... no HDD and no backwards compatibility? That's a dangerous (and stupid) course for MS when Sony will have backwards compatibility and it looks relatively likely that Nintendo will have it as well... I understand why -- the backwards compatibility because of the massive architecture changes that would make it hard, the HDD to save money... but still. The consumers don't see those things and they will see it as stupid. I think this could really hurt Microsoft... especially if either Sony or Nintendo (however doubtful that one is) include a HDD in their next console.

OB1
I doubt Nintendo will, but Sony might.

A Black Falcon
They just keep coming!


Maybe no Black/White buttons?
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=101766

XBox Next info at GDC (March 24)?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/03/05/news_6090862.html

Dark Jaguar
They are unused because they are badly placed on BOTH controller models. Why not just use a standard 6 button setup? It could easily be set up like a sidewinder's 6 button arrangement. I think those buttons might actually see more use then.

A Black Falcon
Yes, make it a Sidewinder-style layout. Or Saturn/Genesis 6-button, same thing really. Or even the Saitek controllers with the 4 in the diamond (where the ps2 buttons are) and two smaller ones as 5 and 6 (but they are in the normal 3/6 positions where C and Z are on the Sidwinder, just with smaller buttons than the main 4 -- as opposed to the Sidewinder layout with 3 large on bottom and 3 small on top)... but KEEP THEM ON THE FACE!