RE 4

The official blow-out will be in a few short days, but here are some terrific-looking scans from Famitsu and other sources (found em at the gaming-age forums), as well as a super-cool gif:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/snoopy2knj/biohazard.gif

http://www.capcom.co.jp/bio4/images/screen2.jpg

http://www.capcom.co.jp/bio4/images/screen.jpg

http://myhome.hanafos.com/~loycuter/re4_4.jpg

http://myhome.hanafos.com/~loycuter/re4_5.jpg

http://myhome.hanafos.com/~loycuter/re4_6.jpg

http://myhome.hanafos.com/~loycuter/re4_7.jpg


According to several gaming journalists that have played the game it's going to be incredible. Matt from IGN places it just below Metroid Prime 2 as his most-anticipated game of 2004.

I have to admit that while I've never been a real RE fan I am very excited about this game. It looks like it's going to get rid of the main reasons why I don't really like the survival horror genre (crap controls, crap camera, and terrible puzzles).

I really wish I could read Japanese.

Some of the RE games used a 3rd person control scheme rather than 1st person. How'd you like those?

I never found the puzzles "terrible". They had logical solutions and everything, but there was usually not a very logical reason for those puzzles to exist. The main problem though was how too many of them solved themselves, kinda like Shenmu's puzzles also being far too easy.

I think that guy isn't doing too well against the freak with the chainsaw. I dunno, once the torso is chainsawed and blood is everywhere, it's kinda hard to recover.

The puzzles in RE are ridiculous. Find a stupid lions crest to open up a door to get some jewels which unlock the doors to the basement where you can find a shield with yet another stupid crest which has directions on the back of it of where to find the key to the third floor! This PA comic best sums up my feelings about the illogical puzzles in the series:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2002/20020503l.gif


The alternate control styles are alright but still annoying because of the fixed camera angles.

Well, yeah they're fixed. Same in Prince of Persia. It'd have to be the controls on their own merits. The one problem is that if you hold in one direction and the camera changes, it's all weird now because if you keep holding and don't release, the controls are all pointing the way they were in the last camera. Hard to explain, but I think OB1 understands what I mean.

About the puzzles, yeah, that's what I said. No real reason except something like "the designer was an excentric person". I had no idea there were that many Frank Lloid Wrongs around. Still, I don't have a problem with that so much as how easy the puzzles are. Eh, well the main point of it is surviving horrible zombies and such.

Did you MEAN to say "jews" up there? I know you didn't, meaning that's a hilarious typo, unless Capcom really did have a "get the jew" puzzle in one of the RE games.

Hahaha, whups I meant to say "jewels".

Prince of Persia has a fixed camera angle but also regular camera angles, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. RE's primary control style is bad, and the 3rd person (doesn't quite make sense, but I know what you mean) is bad because of the camera issues you mentioned.

RE4 looks really cool. It has sort of a Silent Hill/Metal Gear Solid look going for it.

Its puzzles like that that got me to call it a (simplified) adventure game... it's more than just 'get red key and open red door'.

REMake is, to date, my favorite Cube game, and in my opinion the best game made in years---the best console title since Majora's Mask.

I tend to call it REbirth myself, but that's only because it's subtitled "Rebirth" in Japan.

Its puzzles like that that got me to call it a (simplified) adventure game... it's more than just 'get red key and open red door'.

You're right, it's "get blue crest and ten blue gems to open door".

And of course you need the four cardinal coins, the two Gemini keys and the golden Lionel Jefferson Commemorative Statuette to start the company car.

True adventure game puzzles usually use actual items... :) And it's not just opening doors. Hey I said what it was was an adventure game variant...

I enjoyed the easy puzzles on REMake/birth. Was a pleasant little outing. I was more involved with the cool story and awesome realistic graphics. 'Sides, I hate getting stuck in a game.

I LOVE getting stuck :D. Sorta a self abusive mindset to have, but hey it's fun.

I don't mind getting stuck sometimes but I run to the FAQ pretty quickly... sometimes I then wish I'd figured it out, but often in adventure games the puzzles can get quite obscure and a FAQ is the only way to solve some of them, it seems.

I love getting stuck in stuff like Zelda, mainly the 2D ones. I got stuck plenty of times in the Oracle games and loved trying to figure my way out of them.

I'd rather have a really, really long game thats easy to figure out, but takes a long time to get through. That's kind of what REMake was---only it wasn't all that long. The awesome effects and story carried it. It was like walking through a movie, really.

But too long and too easy and it just gets tedious. Like Wind Waker.

Now it's too long?? Just a second ago you were calling it short! :whatever:

The rest of the game is relatively short, but this part is long...

It takes half an hour!!

I've already spent more than that on it, easily, and have two of them i think...

Fan-translated from Famitsu... well the first two pages of it, anyway. Oh, the list on top is a summary thing they did for people who don't want to read it all...

http://web60.athen.wivt.de/cgi-bin/messageboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=3;t=1016;st=60

-The enemy of this time in zombie of close ones only the person without also being the human

-As for natural shape of the enemy while keeping playing, it is understood

-You'll converse with the enemy but not in English. Spanish possibly?

-The game engine was modified once during the initial unveiling in 2002. After the last public showing of RE4 at E3 in May 2003, Mikami was unsatisfied with the directing the game was taking so the project was "rest' or started from scratch.

-Some of the primary game engine still exists from the previous attempts at RE4 but the location and setting has been totally redesigned.

-Because the reason of reset did not do "full model change". After all by the fact that Mikami enters into the director "full model change" became possible.

-Mikami has written the new story and scenario.

-Tricky translation..Looks like the scenario can change depending on what actions the player takes..

-Mikami hopes that a new level of 'Fear' will be created, anything unlike that was generated with REmake..

-Mikami believes RE4 will push the limits of what the GC can do.

-This part is tricky to translate but the setting has been written to pickup where RE3 left off after RE2 where Leon has now become a US Agent.

-Whether or not there will be a Resident Evil 5 has not been decided. However, RE4 marks the start of a whole new look and direction.

-Winter 2004 isn't that far off!




Part One of the translation between Famitsu and Shinji Mikami:

QUOTE
Serious consideration of the horror game genre-

Hamamura-Tsushin (Famitsu employee):
I just finished playing Bio-4.

Mikami-Shinji:
How was it?

Famitsu:
I was honestly suprised that the enemies were not zombies! It was very interesting. Very scary actually.

Mikami-Shinji:
Oh thats good...

Famitsu:
While I was playing I was thinking, the terror has changed, the tempo of the game has also changed. This time, the quaility of fear has changed has it not?

Mikami-Shinji:
That was what I naturally intented but, as for the degree of fear has been lowered somewhat.
From now on, the "type of horror" [flavor of horror] has been taken into serious consideration and...

Famitsu:
Yes, it seems...

Mikami-Shinji:
Concepts like survival horror games usually begin first with the type of horror, and after that the game style. I havent completly seperated the two, but the priority this time is reversed.

Famitsu:
The fun of playing has been placed ahead of the horror this time, right?

Mikami-Shinji:
Yes. This time I put the interesting aspects of "gameplay" ahead of everything else. The feeling of horror is gradually brought out by playing this way. So...um...Which is more important the noodles or soup? [japanese idiom?]

Famitsu:
"Hahahaha". Soup and noodles. Ah, I understand the sense of what you are saying.

Mikami-Shinji:
If we throw them both together, we cant really understand. Which is the flavour of the soup, which is the flavour of the noodles. After all is said and done, the you cant seperate them and have it taste good. The gameplay is the soup, while the horror is the noodles.

Famitsu:
true. true.

Mikami-Shinji:
After saying that, the noodles/(horror) in Bio-4 is "al dente"!!

Famitsu:
Hahahahaha!

Mikami-Shinji:
Funny how my conversation changed from gaming to Ramen, this is not a normal dialouge.

*Bio-4 producer Kobayashi*:
Mikami, please keep the topic in mind.

Mikami-Shinji:
Yes. Right, the boss is here!

Kobayashi:
Talk about whatever, its ok. I will edit/correct you later, so...

*Public Relations checks the manuscript!*

Mikami-Shinji:
You guys are the supervisors right? Cut out whatever im saying because you run the camp.
hahahaha

Famitsu:
Hahahaha

-The reason for the contents of the change-

Famitsu:
Gamesystems also are changing too, right? Lets compare it to the former games in the series. You have changed the whole model, huh?

Mikami-Shinji:
Yes

Famitsu:
Also, the fundamentals where changed from the beggining right?

Mikami-Shinji:
With Bio-4 we have recovered some freshness, because we changed so much. But, the important element of Biohazard (the series) has been carried along I think, dont you agree?

Famitsu:
What would you say is the word(s) that describes the core component?

Mikami-Shinji:
The core component is fear and destruction. This is a component of games from very long ago, tension and release/nervousness and calmness. Striking this balance... right?
This time, we took the essense of the Biohazard serious and broke it completely apart. Then reconstructed it.

Famitsu:
I see... Biohazard-4 plays like a completely different game, but the feeling Biohazard`s origins are still done. From playing the very first Biohazard I felt something near a new type of excitement [heart beating]

Mikami-Shinji:
Yes, because you felt that I am very happy. Now from the change of the base state of the game, I want you to enjoy playing the series again.





Part 2:

QUOTE
- The reason behind the change to WideScreen Mode-

Mikami:
In Bio-4 the camera changes to a WideScreen view when the action gets intense. Some of my inside staff complained about this. They even went so far as to call me "Stingy!"

Famitsu:
Why was that?

Mikami:
"The camera cuts off the gaming screen, you are being greedy" they said

Famitsu:
hahaha. Your inside staff had that reaction.

Mikami:
Yes they did. However, there was another affect to the view besides WideScreen cinematics. A normal TV has a view of 4:3, the action is centered in the middle. When the character takes up the middle of the screen the balance and view of the game is not so good. It makes you dizzy. When we tried it with the normal screen view we quickly realized this.

Famitsu:
So you say...

Mikami:
Yes. The placement of the player in Widescreen view to the side balances better this way.

Famitsu:
Oh, it doesnt make you so dizzy this way?

Mikami:
Less dizzy, a little bit but better than the normal screen option.

Famitsu:
I...yes. I get dizzy easily. But, when I played your game I did not have this feeling.

[sasimirobot note: maybe this explains the japanese distaste for FPS? My friend says this is common for Japanese dizzyness while driving, etc...]

- Survival Horror Games-

Mikami:
The tempo in Bio-4 is very fast. This is not the same system as the former Bios right?

Famitsu:
You mean the jerky movements and gunfire right (of the former titles)?

Mikami:
Yes. But now the tempo is moved up.

Famitsu:
I also have that feeling. The standard Bio tactics dont work. The enemies AI is better so they avoid shots more easily. I was thinking when lookin at it, the the change in speed of the game throws me off. But, after actually playing I got used to it really quickly. The controls are good, I have to say.

Mikami:
Maybe , (this control sceme) it is more enjoyable for Japanese than for foreigners, huh...This change of ways.

Famitsu:
I also not sure...( if they will like it)

Mikami:
The rules for finishing Japanese games has always been the same in the past... But as for the latest foreign games, this rule does not always apply.

Famitsu:
Yes. Yes. There are alot of "Free roaming" game products coming out, right?

Mikami:
Right. Gamers are requesting a change now.

Famitsu:
From now on, we have to exploit this rapidly new pioneering force.

Mikami:
That rule is also used in modern music. From the past to present , Japanese peoples rate of change has become a problem.

Famitsu:
Yes, you are right.

Mikami:
Foreign game creators are not trapped by our archaic gaming rules, and approach the user in a way that is more sensitive to their satisfaction.

Famitsu:
Understood. Understood. But in Japan after you have decided on the genre, game work begins immediately for most games.

Mikami:
That is a bad way to go about it. We didnt think about the genre deeply when we made Bio-1.

Famitsu:
ic...

Mikami:
But, if we didnt place that game in a specific genre "survival horror" right away it would not have sold. Wonder what would have happened if we didnt "fit" in...

Famitsu:
This is going in one ear and out the other. After all, Weekly Famitsu will have to call this genre "Action Adventure".

Mikami:
If gamers dont buy and then play it thent they wont understand.
Its essential that we have a genre they can fit it into , when we make new games because of this (unfortunately). "Sangokumusou" falls into the action game genre but its rythm is one of a RPG.

" The rhythm and tempo when playing, rather than a genre, are important for a game."

Famitsu:
Yes. Yes. that is right.

Mikami:
That PRG has an exhilarating feel, so playing for 3 hours or 5 hours doesnt make tired. It really is pleasurable, dont you agree? When Bio-1 was out, it wasnt an action game, more like a simulation. Now viewing it from the production side I think we need to match the tempo and rhythm of the game more closely to the users feelings.


Last info from the article.

http://web60.athen.wivt.de/cgi-bin/messageboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=3;t=1016;st=80

-the pace of the game has been sped up alot. I get the feeling that the game has alot more suprise action scripted events and is more like House of the Dead III than Bio-1.
(Please dont think im suggesting the game is on rails, but the words "circuit/map/course" kept coming up. Im still working out the real meaning...)

For example, I dont think there are alot of *stand around and fire off 10 rounds into a zombie that is taking 4 minutes just to limp to you* . More like a few shots here, jump out the window, hop in the boat, etc... Rember the action choices in Bio-3 they gave you sometimes? but this time on the fly.

Not a single photo out of the dozen or so on the last 2 pages have the typical Bio stand around and shoot zombie look to them. All of them are actions of some sort.

I've already spent more than that on it, easily, and have two of them i think...


That's because you suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!

Not true at all. If it was so short and easy I don't think so many reviews would have complained so much about this part of the game! I recall the Gamespot review complained a LOT about how long and tedious it was, and while at the time I didn't believe it now that I'm actually there I completely agree with them...

I mean, you need to find the maps that tell you where to look, pay Tingle to translate the map, and then go and actually dig up the piece. That process takes quite a while, especially if you run low on money... a "half hour"? You are crazy. It takes hours. Especially if you can't figure out how to get some of those map pieces which is hardly surprising when they are well hidden with puzzles...

I did it in half an hour. You suck, and gamespot sucks. I bet it was that idiot Greg Kasavan that complained about it, am I right? That guy always complains about stuff, much like yourself.

It would be physically impossible to do all of it in half an hour. You'll spend far more than that (FAR more) just sailing to all the places you need to go!

And the puzzles to get the maps aren't super easy or something... not super hard but not super easy. Oh and you better hope you have enough money or you'll have a major hassle to get more... and all the sailing... even if you CAN do it really quickly (which most people can't), you'll still spend a lot of time sailing... oh not horrible, I'm just saying that half an hour is a huge underexaggeration.

It would be physically impossible to do all of it in half an hour. You'll spend far more than that (FAR more) just sailing to all the places you need to go!


That is false. Ever heard of warps before?

And the puzzles to get the maps aren't super easy or something... not super hard but not super easy.


What puzzles? It's super easy!

Oh and you better hope you have enough money or you'll have a major hassle to get more...


There's a quick and easy way to max out on your rupee count in a matter in minutes, so that is not a problem. That's strike 3.

and all the sailing... even if you CAN do it really quickly (which most people can't), you'll still spend a lot of time sailing... oh not horrible, I'm just saying that half an hour is a huge underexaggeration.


The FIRST time I played the game I beat that last triforce hunting part in a little over half an hour, and the second time I went through it I beat the part in half the time.

Conclusion: You suck. A lot.

What puzzles? It's super easy!

Like the one I solved yesterday where you have to use the fruit that makes a seagull come, then hit those five switches on the tall islands while avoiding the big birds trying to hit you, and then go down and use the right song to make the chest appear...

That is false. Ever heard of warps before?

You can't warp to every screen you need to go to! And there are eight maps (hidden with puzzles), then money to Tingle, then back to the correct areas (once you identify which ones the maps are showing) and getting them... it takes time.



The FIRST time I played the game I beat that last triforce hunting part in a little over half an hour, and the second time I went through it I beat the part in half the time.

Conclusion: You suck. A lot.

The correct conclusion is that you are exaggerating. Maybe it didn't take hours, but there is a minimum time it could take and you're under it.


There's a quick and easy way to max out on your rupee count in a matter in minutes, so that is not a problem. That's strike 3.

Yes because of COURSE everyone knows the cheats to get lots of money! :rolleys: Or wants to use them, for that matter... seems pretty cheap to me... I don't know it but I wouldn't use it even if I did. As I said, cheap.

Like the one I solved yesterday where you have to use the fruit that makes a seagull come, then hit those five switches on the tall islands while avoiding the big birds trying to hit you, and then go down and use the right song to make the chest appear...
Yeah that was tough.
You can't warp to every screen you need to go to! And there are eight maps (hidden with puzzles), then money to Tingle, then back to the correct areas (once you identify which ones the maps are showing) and getting them... it takes time.
You can warp to the main points on the map, which makes sailing from one place to another extremely fast. You get the maps, give them to Tingle, then get the triforce pieces. Easy as pie.
The correct conclusion is that you are exaggerating. Maybe it didn't take hours, but there is a minimum time it could take and you're under it.

I must admit that I find it extremely amusing that you suck so badly that the mere thought of someone doing so much better than you is simply unimaginable. I'll take it as a compliment.
Yes because of COURSE everyone knows the cheats to get lots of money! :rolleys: Or wants to use them, for that matter... seems pretty cheap to me... I don't know it but I wouldn't use it even if I did. As I said, cheap.

There are always quick-money shortcuts in Zelda titles, and they're usually really easy to figure out. There's not just one way of getting a quick rupee, either. I forgot exactly what I did, but I believe it involved finding valuable stuff and selling it to that boat guy. Or was is that rupee grass field that I found? Hmm...

And you wouldn't want to do that why, exactly? Because you LIKE doing it the hard way? You make no sense.

Gamespot's paragraph in question. And no it's not that reviewer.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/adventure/legendofzeldathewindwaker/index.html
All told, the game can be completed in 15 to 20 hours, though considering all the extra heart pieces, treasure maps, and other little optional endeavors in the game, that number can increase fairly dramatically. The game's quest starts out in a very brisk manner, quickly moving you from dungeon to dungeon without delay. The game's final third, however, requires you to collect a series of items before you can gain entry to the game's final sequence. Collecting these items isn't difficult, but the focus on sailing, rupee collecting, and dredging up items from the bottom of the sea is pretty tedious. While this portion of the game has actually been shortened up a bit since the Japanese release, it still feels like it was put in the game merely to pad it out to an acceptable length. Thankfully, the game gets back on track after this portion is completed, and the game's final confrontation puts a nice new twist on the classic Zelda boss fight.

Yeah that was tough.

Took me a while to realize there were 5... most of the time I can't just walk up to a puzzle and instantly see the solution, you know! It's not that simple!

As I said I just solved that puzzle and it was easy but I'd tried it before and for some reason hadn't gotten it... once I finally figured out you were supposed to use a seagull (that took a while), I tried it but I think I got hit and didn't notice 5 (I think I just hit the top one) and gave up for the time...

You can warp to the main points on the map, which makes sailing from one place to another extremely fast. You get the maps, give them to Tingle, then get the triforce pieces. Easy as pie.

Even if you could solve all 8 puzzles for the maps instantly (which I can't; I didn't say most of them were super hard or anything but it takes at least a little time to figure out each one...) as Gamespot says the sailing takes quite a while! I won't call it boring (it's fun really), but it takes time warps or no. It's amazing that you are trying to deny that.

I must admit that I find it extremely amusing that you suck so badly that the mere thought of someone doing so much better than you is simply unimaginable. I'll take it as a compliment.

Yes yes we know you're the best game player ever and no one could possibly ever hope to match your phenominal skills but if you be realistic you'd realize that you are quite certainly greatly understating the amount of time it took. As I said just see Gamespot's review. They said that from the collecting maps part on is the last third of the game and didn't exactly say that it took half an hour. :) So it's not just me, as I knew it wasn't.

There are always quick-money shortcuts in Zelda titles, and they're usually really easy to figure out. There's not just one way of getting a quick rupee, either. I forgot exactly what I did, but I believe it involved finding valuable stuff and selling it to that boat guy. Or was is that rupee grass field that I found? Hmm...

And you wouldn't want to do that why, exactly? Because you LIKE doing it the hard way? You make no sense.


... okay using FAQs for games but not wanting to use a cheat code may not make sense, but I see something of a difference. At least with FAQs you still need to actually play the game yourself... I'd only cheat if I was REALLY stuck or really wanted to see the end of the game or something and even then I don't use them much. Like in Rush 2049... I could unlock everything by cheating, and it'd let me get things that would be extremely hard to get fairly, but it seems like the cheap way out...

Gamespot's paragraph in question. And no it's not that reviewer.



Obviously the reviewer is as sucky at games as you are since he complained about having to find rupees, which was never a problem for me.

Took me a while to realize there were 5... most of the time I can't just walk up to a puzzle and instantly see the solution, you know! It's not that simple!

As I said I just solved that puzzle and it was easy but I'd tried it before and for some reason hadn't gotten it... once I finally figured out you were supposed to use a seagull (that took a while), I tried it but I think I got hit and didn't notice 5 (I think I just hit the top one) and gave up for the time...



They give you so many hints for that "puzzle"! You found the dungeon puzzles super easy but that one tough??

Even if you could solve all 8 puzzles for the maps instantly (which I can't; I didn't say most of them were super hard or anything but it takes at least a little time to figure out each one...) as Gamespot says the sailing takes quite a while! I won't call it boring (it's fun really), but it takes time warps or no. It's amazing that you are trying to deny that.



It's amazing how sucky you are and how said your argument is. "But gamespot said--!!". That's great, you found someone as sucky as you! Congrats!

There are no real puzzles involved with findind the last triforce pieces as most of them involve just killing a bunch of baddies and paying attention to super obvious hints. Sailing is super fast once you realize how to use the c-stick (it's pretty simple, you just use your right thumb and move it) in order to use the baton.

Yes yes we know you're the best game player ever and no one could possibly ever hope to match your phenominal skills but if you be realistic you'd realize that you are quite certainly greatly understating the amount of time it took. As I said just see Gamespot's review. They said that from the collecting maps part on is the last third of the game and didn't exactly say that it took half an hour. So it's not just me, as I knew it wasn't.


You and another sucky person.

I'm not the best Zelda player in the world, believe me. I usually take a while with puzzles, and the 2D bosses are usually pretty damn tough for me. However, I do tend to play through games very quickly. Call it a lack of patience or whatever, but I can usually find a quick way out of something. I timed how long it took for me to get those last triforce pieces because before the game came out I read all of those complaints of how long it takes and knew that it would come up in a future argument. It took me barely over half an hour to get all of them! It was a minor annoyance but not nearly as painful as you big cry babies say it was.

http://www.internetcash.com/en/images/baby-crying.jpg

... okay using FAQs for games but not wanting to use a cheat code may not make sense, but I see something of a difference. At least with FAQs you still need to actually play the game yourself... I'd only cheat if I was REALLY stuck or really wanted to see the end of the game or something and even then I don't use them much. Like in Rush 2049... I could unlock everything by cheating, and it'd let me get things that would be extremely hard to get fairly, but it seems like the cheap way out...


Right, because there are TONS of cheats in Zelda games. :whatever: It's not a cheat! It's a quick and easy way to make money if you have the intelligence and luck to figure it out! Find a place with tons of bad guys, kill them, hit the gems when they turn a certain color, collect rupees, repeat. Find a big field of grass, collect tons of blue rupees, walk inside a house, go back outside and repeat. It's not cheating. Using FAQ's is cheating. This is not.

They give you so many hints for that "puzzle"! You found the dungeon puzzles super easy but that one tough??

Hints? Where? I don't remember any hints for that puzzle!


It's amazing how sucky you are and how said your argument is. "But gamespot said--!!". That's great, you found someone as sucky as you! Congrats!

There are no real puzzles involved with findind the last triforce pieces as most of them involve just killing a bunch of baddies and paying attention to super obvious hints. Sailing is super fast once you realize how to use the c-stick (it's pretty simple, you just use your right thumb and move it) in order to use the baton.

Huh? I know that you sail in a direction, then cast the spell to change wind direction and then sail in that one, then do the warp if you're going somewhere near a teleporter, etc... it takes time.

Oh I was just playing. There are a bunch of mini-dungeons and those take time. Maybe you could get through three of them in half an hour but no matter how you try to spin it this thing takes hours. It's not the hardest thing ever but it is impossible to deny that it takes hours. Okay it could be done faster than I am doing it but I can easily see that there is a minimum time you could do this in, and your "half hour" is so absurdly far under that that it's ridiculous.


Right, because there are TONS of cheats in Zelda games. It's not a cheat! It's a quick and easy way to make money if you have the intelligence and luck to figure it out! Find a place with tons of bad guys, kill them, hit the gems when they turn a certain color, collect rupees, repeat. Find a big field of grass, collect tons of blue rupees, walk inside a house, go back outside and repeat. It's not cheating. Using FAQ's is cheating. This is not.

The color of those gems matters?

And FAQs are not cheating. Help isn't cheating. Cheating is getting past something without actually doing that... okay what you are talking about there isn't cheating. It's exploiting. And I wouldn't do that either.


Obviously the reviewer is as sucky at games as you are since he complained about having to find rupees, which was never a problem for me.

When you exploit the game like you clearly did I'm sure it wasn't.


I'm not the best Zelda player in the world, believe me. I usually take a while with puzzles, and the 2D bosses are usually pretty damn tough for me. However, I do tend to play through games very quickly. Call it a lack of patience or whatever, but I can usually find a quick way out of something. I timed how long it took for me to get those last triforce pieces because before the game came out I read all of those complaints of how long it takes and knew that it would come up in a future argument. It took me barely over half an hour to get all of them! It was a minor annoyance but not nearly as painful as you big cry babies say it was.

Sorry but I am sure that it is impossible to do everything involved in getting the pieces in half an hour even if you knew exactly what to do (from setting out to get the first map until you have all eight shards with you -- all of that time, not just part of it!) and had enough money to buy all the shards at once. Completely impossible. And for your first try when you say that 'puzzles take you a while'? It's ludicrous to say that!

Hints? Where? I don't remember any hints for that puzzle!


I forgot exactly, but I remember it being very obvious.

Huh? I know that you sail in a direction, then cast the spell to change wind direction and then sail in that one, then do the warp if you're going somewhere near a teleporter, etc... it takes time.
A few minutes!

Oh I was just playing. There are a bunch of mini-dungeons and those take time. Maybe you could get through three of them in half an hour but no matter how you try to spin it this thing takes hours. It's not the hardest thing ever but it is impossible to deny that it takes hours. Okay it could be done faster than I am doing it but I can easily see that there is a minimum time you could do this in, and your "half hour" is so absurdly far under that that it's ridiculous.



It's an absolute FACT that I finished it in a little over half an hour. Here, I'll record myself doing it all over again and if you give me money for shipping and a blank tape I'll send it to you. Seriously, I'll do it!

The color of those gems matters?



Different colors give different things. But I suppose knowing that would be exploitative, right??

And FAQs are not cheating. Help isn't cheating. Cheating is getting past something without actually doing that... okay what you are talking about there isn't cheating. It's exploiting. And I wouldn't do that either.
When you exploit the game like you clearly did I'm sure it wasn't.


Exploiting?? What an idiot thing to say! It's bad that I found an easy way to make money in WW? I guess it's bad that I made tons of cash in Shenmue II by gambling and didn't have to work for hours like other people did, right? It's a game, you're supposed to find different ways to do things. Finding a bug is a different matter. This is not a bug.

I guess it's also really bad to get lots of bottles in OoT and fill them up with fairies in a fairy fountain, right? :whatever: Dork.

Sorry but I am sure that it is impossible to do everything involved in getting the pieces in half an hour even if you knew exactly what to do (from setting out to get the first map until you have all eight shards with you -- all of that time, not just part of it!) and had enough money to buy all the shards at once. Completely impossible. And for your first try when you say that 'puzzles take you a while'? It's ludicrous to say that!


You = sucking does not = me sucking. A guy just beat Super Mario Bros. in five minutes. I guess you'd call that impossible too, right? Your poor gaming skills make you believe that everyone is that bad and you cannot even fathom something better than you. I find that very, very pathetic.

I forgot exactly, but I remember it being very obvious.

There were no hints. You just had to figure it out.

Different colors give different things. But I suppose knowing that would be exploitative, right??

No, that's just a game feature... I didn't know there was a difference based on what color it is...

It's an absolute FACT that I finished it in a little over half an hour. Here, I'll record myself doing it all over again and if you give me money for shipping and a blank tape I'll send it to you. Seriously, I'll do it!

It's not a fact because it's impossible.

And please do tape it. I'd love to see you play it again and see that you are completely wrong. I was just playing it and do you remember the dungeon in the start island(Outset?)? Yeah, the one where you need to fight through 30 rooms to get the map piece. Even at top speed that'll eat up almost half of that 30 minuites... I went through it as quickly as I could and made good time but there are 30 stages and it takes time no matter how good you are. Maybe you could do it in 10 minuites but that'd be pretty fast. if you could manage to even just beat all of those other mini-dungeons in the other 15 I'd be pretty impressed... oh they aren't super long but there are many of them...

Face it, it takes a couple of hours at least. More if it's your first try because you won't know the puzzles. Go actually play the game and you'll see what I mean.

Now, the game IS fun. The main reason I quit really wasn't because I couldn't find any maps but because the ones I was trying to get were annoying me... see I never thought of in your resort house using the grappling hook on the celing beam thing. I looked around that island so many times for where that triforce map was... then I went to a FAQ. I didn't even know that any of your items worked in the house... that's the kind of puzzle that's easy if you get it but if not it could take forever... :) Once I actually got down the fireplace it was simple enough though.

Oh, or how about the puzzle I'm at now? It's the one to get the Ghost Ship Map, with those pots that teleport you... after spending like ten or fifteen minuites on it I quit in annoyance. Stupid stupid puzzle... and unless you get a FAQ for a map or something unless you're lucky it could take a long time to complete.


You = sucking does not = me sucking. A guy just beat Super Mario Bros. in five minutes. I guess you'd call that impossible too, right? Your poor gaming skills make you believe that everyone is that bad and you cannot even fathom something better than you. I find that very, very pathetic.

I am sure that it is not physically possible to do everything needed for all 8 shards in half an hour. That is unless you run it in an emulator at like 600x or something... but for a real human being, completely impossible regardless of skill level. Say something like 'a couple of hours' and you'd be on track for a quick runthrough of the part of the game if you've done it before and know what to do... I know that Zelda games become far easier and quicker once you've beaten them and know what to do. But still all the transit time and the amount of time you spend fighting enemies (unless you know a magic way to instantly kill them) and you're looking at a couple of hours most likely.

You just forgot how long this takes and don't want to look stupid by giving in but I am actually PLAYING this part of the game right now and know that it is impossible to do in your supposed time.

In Mario 3 it would be possible to win in that like 15 minuites or something if you could go at full speed through the entire game. Even if you did that in this it'd take far, far over half an hour.

Exploiting?? What an idiot thing to say! It's bad that I found an easy way to make money in WW? I guess it's bad that I made tons of cash in Shenmue II by gambling and didn't have to work for hours like other people did, right? It's a game, you're supposed to find different ways to do things. Finding a bug is a different matter. This is not a bug.

I guess it's also really bad to get lots of bottles in OoT and fill them up with fairies in a fairy fountain, right? Dork.

No, it's not a bug, but it's a cheap way to get money when you know they don't mean for you to just load up on money that easily... compared to faries where if you get the bottles of course they expect you to use them...


Oh here's the IGN review's paragraph about collecting the Triforce...

Gamers who played the Japanese version of the title, though, will be happy to learn that Nintendo has for the most part improved the US incarnation by eliminating some of the extra tediousness surrounding the collection of some Triforce pieces in the water. It can still be frustrating, gathering all sorts of Triforce maps in order to endlessly search out pieces of the artifact, but at least it's now possible to see where they are directly on a map. (In the Japanese version, one such quest had you find a map, that led to a map, that led to a map, that led to a Triforce map. That one thankfully got the axe.) The sheer amount of time saved by this addition is practically immeasurable, so thanks, Nintendo.

There were no hints. You just had to figure it out.

There were very obvious hints. You're just a tad bit on the dense side. :)

No, that's just a game feature... I didn't know there was a difference based on what color it is...

Oh, but getting chopping down field of grass for lots of rupees isn't a game feature??

It's not a fact because it's impossible.

Jeez, you're right! I guess because you suck that makes doing it fast and well impossible!

And please do tape it. I'd love to see you play it again and see that you are completely wrong.

Okay, send me the money and I will!

I was just playing it and do you remember the dungeon in the start island(Outset?)? Yeah, the one where you need to fight through 30 rooms to get the map piece. Even at top speed that'll eat up almost half of that 30 minuites... I went through it as quickly as I could and made good time but there are 30 stages and it takes time no matter how good you are. Maybe you could do it in 10 minuites but that'd be pretty fast. if you could manage to even just beat all of those other mini-dungeons in the other 15 I'd be pretty impressed... oh they aren't super long but there are many of them...

That long dungeon takes ten minutes tops to beat. If you're slow. The other "dungeons" take five minutes to beat. And I can't believe you consider those puzzles. You really do suck!

Face it, it takes a couple of hours at least. More if it's your first try because you won't know the puzzles. Go actually play the game and you'll see what I mean.

Yeah I've beaten it twice, genius. "Hours?" Not even one hour. For non-sucky people.

Now, the game IS fun. The main reason I quit really wasn't because I couldn't find any maps but because the ones I was trying to get were annoying me... see I never thought of in your resort house using the grappling hook on the celing beam thing. I looked around that island so many times for where that triforce map was... then I went to a FAQ. I didn't even know that any of your items worked in the house... that's the kind of puzzle that's easy if you get it but if not it could take forever... Once I actually got down the fireplace it was simple enough though.

Oh, or how about the puzzle I'm at now? It's the one to get the Ghost Ship Map, with those pots that teleport you... after spending like ten or fifteen minuites on it I quit in annoyance. Stupid stupid puzzle... and unless you get a FAQ for a map or something unless you're lucky it could take a long time to complete.

That's a great, classic Zelda-style puzzle! And it's so easy!

I am sure that it is not physically possible to do everything needed for all 8 shards in half an hour. That is unless you run it in an emulator at like 600x or something... but for a real human being, completely impossible regardless of skill level. Say something like 'a couple of hours' and you'd be on track for a quick runthrough of the part of the game if you've done it before and know what to do... I know that Zelda games become far easier and quicker once you've beaten them and know what to do. But still all the transit time and the amount of time you spend fighting enemies (unless you know a magic way to instantly kill them) and you're looking at a couple of hours most likely.

You just forgot how long this takes and don't want to look stupid by giving in but I am actually PLAYING this part of the game right now and know that it is impossible to do in your supposed time.

Seriously ABF, this makes you look like an more of a dumbass than you already are (if that's possible). You're just bad at certain games, and denying that you're simply bad at the game and that certain others are much better than you isn't helping matters.

In Mario 3 it would be possible to win in that like 15 minuites or something if you could go at full speed through the entire game. Even if you did that in this it'd take far, far over half an hour.

Someone beat Mario 1 in 5 minutes (http://gaming-age.com/news/2004/2/25-92).

No, it's not a bug, but it's a cheap way to get money when you know they don't mean for you to just load up on money that easily... compared to faries where if you get the bottles of course they expect you to use them...

You're so stupid! Getting tons of rupees from grass is an important part of the game and it's been a staple of the series from the very beginning! Just because you couldn't figure out something as simple as that doesn't make it "cheating".

Oh here's the IGN review's paragraph about collecting the Triforce...

That proves what, exactly? Hey guess what? I've beaten the game twice. I know how long it takes.

I just played through that long "30 minutes at least" tunnel and did it in 12 minutes, and that's after not having played the game in ages. It can be done in under 10 minutes, no problem.

Oh and OoT can be finished in 5 hours (http://zhq2.com/ootspeed.htm), and it's a longer game than WW. I beat WW in 20 hours on my first try, and can now beat it in just over 10. The final triforce hunt takes up maybe 5% of the game. You do the math.

And yes I know that the time in the menu is not the play time.

That's a great, classic Zelda-style puzzle! And it's so easy!

After spending like 10 minuites constantly getting sent back to the start and just finding one chest with money it was too annoying and I quit. Easy it is not unless as I said you are lucky or something...

You're so stupid! Getting tons of rupees from grass is an important part of the game and it's been a staple of the series from the very beginning! Just because you couldn't figure out something as simple as that doesn't make it "cheating".

Getting rupees from grass takes a long time to make much because you get 1 at a time and most grass gives you none... unless you just farm some field that has lots of rupees that seems a bit cheap and would get very boring very fast.

Someone beat Mario 1 in 5 minutes.

By memonizing the whole game? Well might be possible.

That long dungeon takes ten minutes tops to beat. If you're slow. The other "dungeons" take five minutes to beat. And I can't believe you consider those puzzles. You really do suck!

Well some are only puzzles in a loose sense (ie "solve" something by killing baddies and you progress), but there are some puzzles... like the islands and the bird, or the switch to get in the basement, or the maze that is in said cellar under your house... okay it was a simple maze but it WAS a maze. Oh and 15 or so minuites for that 30-stage big dungeon is hardly slow. I kept going after that but had to give up at 40 because I'd used both of my faries and only had 2 1/2 hearts left... I wanted to finish but knew I wouldn't get anywhere close, not with that much health left. :(

And you've already proven your "half hour" false you know. Nice to see you can see reason... even when you can't admit it in as many words... I mean, you in other responses here insult me for saying that it's impossible to to in half an hour but here you say that that one takes 10 minuites (reasonable if you move fast) and those other 5 or 6 mini dungeons (there isn't one for a couple of them but the ghost ship has two if you include the maze) take 5 minuites (possible for some, not for others; for most it really depends on how fast you can fight, but for others... like the maze under the house if you memorize the quickest route it could be fast. Same for the pots -- if you've done it before you know the route and can do it quickly. But for both, and especially for that one, the first time through "5 minuites" is unlikely. Oh they aren't exactly epic dungeons, but it takes a bit more than that. I think you just forget how long it takes and just think' that didnt' take long'. Which it didn't, of course, but 5 minuites? I don't know. Only if you can dispatch those monsters quick and catch on on how to get through mazes in record time...

Seriously ABF, this makes you look like an more of a dumbass than you already are (if that's possible). You're just bad at certain games, and denying that you're simply bad at the game and that certain others are much better than you isn't helping matters.

Laughable comment given that you just admitted that half an hour is not a possible number to even just beat the dungeons where you get the maps. That is of course not counting the sailing between said dungeons (and not all are on warps so you must spend some time sailing!) and then the sailing to the fishing spots to dig up some triforce pieces... face it, you're count is well off.

And I'm not bad at Zelda games. Including this one. You may be better than me but that does not mean I am bad. You're just basing your statements on your faulty memory and your standard need to use insults when reasoned arguements can't be thought of fast enough.

There were very obvious hints. You're just a tad bit on the dense side.

I don't recall any hints, obvious or not. Just an island where you can use the grappling hook to get on the roof of the cave. No "hints".

Well, considering that you can easily avoid most of SMB1 using two warp pipes, it's easy to beat it in 5 minutes. 5 minutes including going through hard mode? Hmm, I suppose it's TECHNICALLY possible, though I am already in my pajamas...

I'm really not sure how doing some mundane task to gain what you need is cheap in any way, boring as it may get (like the pot trick in LTTP). However, I suppose when you are used to PC style RPGs where there is no infinite well of XP OR money, one can see any sort of infinite source of pretty much anything done over and over as cheap.

Well some are only puzzles in a loose sense (ie "solve" something by killing baddies and you progress), but there are some puzzles... like the islands and the bird, or the switch to get in the basement, or the maze that is in said cellar under your house... okay it was a simple maze but it WAS a maze. Oh and 15 or so minuites for that 30-stage big dungeon is hardly slow. I kept going after that but had to give up at 40 because I'd used both of my faries and only had 2 1/2 hearts left... I wanted to finish but knew I wouldn't get anywhere close, not with that much health left.

You must be missing one of your thumbs. That wasn't hard at all. It forced me to use one fairy, but I made it out with most of my health and two other fairies (plus the Grandma's Soup that I got at the beginning and never ended up using).

I will say there were too many "survival" dungeons. Yeah, I know at most there had to be 3, at MOST, but that's kinda my point :D. ONE was enough. It was a decent challenge, considering I had like 2 bottles (took me a long time just to find that second one). All things considering, I managed to avoid a lot of side quests. When I finally play it again, I'll find all the side quests I can. I can only add that some of those side quests WILL be tedious. I know I'll hate the part where I search out each and every hidden treasure across the ocean (I love sailing for no reason whatsoever, yet I hate sailing to the exact same thing repeatedly). I mean, I'll like the treasures with their own unique puzzles on their own island that I have to find, but not the ones where you just get the map, go to the place, and either board a ship or toss down the hook. Those are the definition of DULL. Yes, it wasn't really all that long to do something like the triforce quest if you played your cards right, but it was dull and let's face it I'm not the sort of person who does adventure games in a time trial kind of way. I almost make it my GOAL to max out the clock on RPGs before the halfway point :D.

Lemme just ask one thing. In every Zelda game before this (excepting MAYBE the oracle games, which I haven't yet mastered), you can always go back from the very end of the game and collect EVERY SINGLE item, chest, or anything else that's recorded by the save file in the whole game. The only exception to this rule is OOT with one of the max item holding upgrades for the deku sticks I think, if you collect the ocarina of time before you show the mask of truth to the mask judging plants, however that's an obvious glitch so it doesn't really count. So, is Wind Waker the same way, or are there some items and events you can't get to after certain points?

After spending like 10 minuites constantly getting sent back to the start and just finding one chest with money it was too annoying and I quit. Easy it is not unless as I said you are lucky or something...



Hahaha, there's an actual pattern that you have to follow. You have to pay attention to your surroundings. It's all about memory.

Getting rupees from grass takes a long time to make much because you get 1 at a time and most grass gives you none... unless you just farm some field that has lots of rupees that seems a bit cheap and would get very boring very fast.



Here's a hint, boy: Get the super twirly move, find a big field of grass, let loose and you're bound to find at least a few blue rupees. Then go into a room or something so that the grass grows back and repeat. In ten minutes you'll have hundreds of rupees. Another way to make a quick buck if to use one of those many games within the game world. And then there are several different quick rupee tricks that the developers like to put in the Zelda games. There's one with pots in WW.

By memonizing the whole game? Well might be possible.



Not might, is. There's video to prove it. Like that guy who beat Metroid Prime in under two hours.

Well some are only puzzles in a loose sense (ie "solve" something by killing baddies and you progress), but there are some puzzles... like the islands and the bird, or the switch to get in the basement, or the maze that is in said cellar under your house... okay it was a simple maze but it WAS a maze. Oh and 15 or so minuites for that 30-stage big dungeon is hardly slow. I kept going after that but had to give up at 40 because I'd used both of my faries and only had 2 1/2 hearts left... I wanted to finish but knew I wouldn't get anywhere close, not with that much health left.
There are no puzzles that make you stop and think about them. At least not for me. The longest it takes to get a single triforce piece is that long tunnel which can be completed in under ten minutes.

And you've already proven your "half hour" false you know. Nice to see you can see reason... even when you can't admit it in as many words... I mean, you in other responses here insult me for saying that it's impossible to to in half an hour but here you say that that one takes 10 minuites (reasonable if you move fast) and those other 5 or 6 mini dungeons (there isn't one for a couple of them but the ghost ship has two if you include the maze) take 5 minuites (possible for some, not for others; for most it really depends on how fast you can fight, but for others... like the maze under the house if you memorize the quickest route it could be fast. Same for the pots -- if you've done it before you know the route and can do it quickly. But for both, and especially for that one, the first time through "5 minuites" is unlikely. Oh they aren't exactly epic dungeons, but it takes a bit more than that. I think you just forget how long it takes and just think' that didnt' take long'. Which it didn't, of course, but 5 minuites? I don't know. Only if you can dispatch those monsters quick and catch on on how to get through mazes in record time...



Under five minutes each, and that includes the mazes. It is most certainly possible to get all of them in roughly half an hour, and if you send me the money for the tape I'll prove it to you.

Laughable comment given that you just admitted that half an hour is not a possible number to even just beat the dungeons where you get the maps. That is of course not counting the sailing between said dungeons (and not all are on warps so you must spend some time sailing!) and then the sailing to the fishing spots to dig up some triforce pieces... face it, you're count is well off.

And I'm not bad at Zelda games. Including this one. You may be better than me but that does not mean I am bad. You're just basing your statements on your faulty memory and your standard need to use insults when reasoned arguements can't be thought of fast enough.



You are extremely bad at WW if it takes you "hours" to get the remaining triforce pieces. I beat it all in about half an hour, and can do it again. It is very sad to see someone like you ABF, someone who is so incredibly bad at a game that they find it unbelievable that someone could be that much better than them. Like I said, give me the money for a tape and shipping and I will record myself getting all of the final triforce pieces in half an hour. I've done it several times already, and I will gladly do it again. Let me prove just how much of an idiot you are. After you watch the tape you have to promise that you'll go on Tendo City and announce the following: "I, ABF, have seen OB1 get the final triforce pieces in the time he said he could. I am a stupid idiot who annoyed the hell out of him and I apologize for that, and now that he's proven me wrong I'd like to make it clear that I am a complete moron. And that I'm always wrong."

BTW I wrote down how long it took me to get the final triforce pieces right after I beat the game, in a discussion I had with... Darunia, I think it was. It was a little over half an hour. So there's no "faulty memory" here.
I don't recall any hints, obvious or not. Just an island where you can use the grappling hook to get on the roof of the cave. No "hints".


They give you hints as soon as you get that food. You're just dense.

I'm really not sure how doing some mundane task to gain what you need is cheap in any way, boring as it may get (like the pot trick in LTTP). However, I suppose when you are used to PC style RPGs where there is no infinite well of XP OR money, one can see any sort of infinite source of pretty much anything done over and over as cheap.


Exactly! I have no idea how that weirdo can call it "cheating".

You must be missing one of your thumbs. That wasn't hard at all. It forced me to use one fairy, but I made it out with most of my health and two other fairies (plus the Grandma's Soup that I got at the beginning and never ended up using).


Thank you! Okay it's fine that ABF is no good at the game, but it's very annoying when he finds it impossible to believe when someone is better than he is.

Lemme just ask one thing. In every Zelda game before this (excepting MAYBE the oracle games, which I haven't yet mastered), you can always go back from the very end of the game and collect EVERY SINGLE item, chest, or anything else that's recorded by the save file in the whole game. The only exception to this rule is OOT with one of the max item holding upgrades for the deku sticks I think, if you collect the ocarina of time before you show the mask of truth to the mask judging plants, however that's an obvious glitch so it doesn't really count. So, is Wind Waker the same way, or are there some items and events you can't get to after certain points?


Hmm, I'm not sure. I know that there are some enemies that you can't capture with your camera after a certain point, but the whole world is open in your last save before Ganon.

Under five minutes each, and that includes the mazes. It is most certainly possible to get all of them in roughly half an hour, and if you send me the money for the tape I'll prove it to you.

5x6=30. +10 for the deep dungeon and you've got 40. Now add an hour of sailing (being very, very generous -- it should be quite a bit higher), which would mean going at top speed, and assuming you could also get all 8 triforce shards almost instantly, and you've got what i said a good player could do it in -- a couple of hours. You are wrong unless you change the definition of the question. Which you probably will do because you cannot bear being wrong.

As I said I may not be quite as good as you and it may take me a bit longer than average (hours count), but that does not make me bad at the game. I KNOW I am right on this and unless you have some dramatically different interpretation of how you do this your "half hour" is impossible. Hour and a half? Maybe. It'd be close, but if you go fast it's feasible, like that 5 minuite game of Mario... but half an hour? You cannot physically move fast enough to do all that stuff in anywhere close to such a small amount of time. And remember there's more to it than just finishing those mini-dungeons...

They give you hints as soon as you get that food. You're just dense.

... if you say so but I don't remember anything...

Thank you! Okay it's fine that ABF is no good at the game, but it's very annoying when he finds it impossible to believe when someone is better than he is.

Umm you DO know that he's talking about that deep dungeon on Outset, which you hadn't really talked about much so that reaction is kind of silly, right? You certainly haven't said if you beat all 50 levels on your first try or how many faries it took you so saying this is just silly, unless you forgot what he was talking about.

As for me, the reason I lost so much health... part of it was that it just wears on you with so many baddies, but the biggest chunks came from several stages where I forgot how to fight some kinds of enemies because I hadn't played in too long. That obviously would go a lot faster on a repeat play and would be easier so I bet on a second try I'd finish the dungeon...

Oh, and I only have two bottles. If I did have a third and some soup I well might have made it...

I'm really not sure how doing some mundane task to gain what you need is cheap in any way, boring as it may get (like the pot trick in LTTP). However, I suppose when you are used to PC style RPGs where there is no infinite well of XP OR money, one can see any sort of infinite source of pretty much anything done over and over as cheap.

Exactly! I have no idea how that weirdo can call it "cheating".

Again an innapropriate response. My response to that same comment of DJ's would be 'yeah that could be one reason that I would consider that cheating, I'm not sure'...

Thinking back to Quest for Glory. That's a Adventure-RPG I've had for a very long time. It has stats that you improve with practice as long as you had any points in them in the beginning of the game. Try to climb that tree fifty times and you're better at Climbing. I remember for a few parts I did have to repeat tasks many times, but on the whole I would just play... I didn't for instance walk around Sneaking to increase that stat, or spend hours trying to throw rocks at something up a tree... just seems a waste of time...

Anyway, so far I've managed to have enough money by just playing through the dungeons (you get a LOT in that one on the start island!) and pulling up chests every time I see a beacon to hoist from the sea... I don't search for those spots, but if I see one I'll get the item.

Hahaha, there's an actual pattern that you have to follow. You have to pay attention to your surroundings. It's all about memory.

Oh thanks for the help...

Oh thanks for the help...

...


...


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Wha..?


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AHAHAHAHAHA!! Good one, OB1! :D

5x6=30. +10 for the deep dungeon and you've got 40. Now add an hour of sailing (being very, very generous -- it should be quite a bit higher), which would mean going at top speed, and assuming you could also get all 8 triforce shards almost instantly, and you've got what i said a good player could do it in -- a couple of hours. You are wrong unless you change the definition of the question. Which you probably will do because you cannot bear being wrong.
The long dungeon I can do in 8, the others take 3, and the rest including sailing takes 10 minutes. 36 minutes. You suck.
As I said I may not be quite as good as you and it may take me a bit longer than average (hours count), but that does not make me bad at the game. I KNOW I am right on this and unless you have some dramatically different interpretation of how you do this your "half hour" is impossible. Hour and a half? Maybe. It'd be close, but if you go fast it's feasible, like that 5 minuite game of Mario... but half an hour? You cannot physically move fast enough to do all that stuff in anywhere close to such a small amount of time. And remember there's more to it than just finishing those mini-dungeons...
Not only is it possible but I've done it twice and can do it again.
Umm you DO know that he's talking about that deep dungeon on Outset, which you hadn't really talked about much so that reaction is kind of silly, right? You certainly haven't said if you beat all 50 levels on your first try or how many faries it took you so saying this is just silly, unless you forgot what he was talking about.
There are not 50 levels! I never had to use a fairy there.
As for me, the reason I lost so much health... part of it was that it just wears on you with so many baddies, but the biggest chunks came from several stages where I forgot how to fight some kinds of enemies because I hadn't played in too long. That obviously would go a lot faster on a repeat play and would be easier so I bet on a second try I'd finish the dungeon...
Oh, and I only have two bottles. If I did have a third and some soup I well might have made it...

I haven't played that section in a while yet I just beat it last night in 12 minutes without the need of fairies.
Again an innapropriate response. My response to that same comment of DJ's would be 'yeah that could be one reason that I would consider that cheating, I'm not sure'... Thinking back to Quest for Glory. That's a Adventure-RPG I've had for a very long time. It has stats that you improve with practice as long as you had any points in them in the beginning of the game. Try to climb that tree fifty times and you're better at Climbing. I remember for a few parts I did have to repeat tasks many times, but on the whole I would just play... I didn't for instance walk around Sneaking to increase that stat, or spend hours trying to throw rocks at something up a tree... just seems a waste of time... Anyway, so far I've managed to have enough money by just playing through the dungeons (you get a LOT in that one on the start island!) and pulling up chests every time I see a beacon to hoist from the sea... I don't search for those spots, but if I see one I'll get the item.
If the developers put it in the game as a way to make a quick rupee, then it's not cheating by any defintion of the word.
Oh thanks for the help...

Hey I don't have magical anti-suck juice.... :D

The long dungeon I can do in 8, the others take 3, and the rest including sailing takes 10 minutes. 36 minutes. You suck.

Amazing, you know that? You are amazing. You manage to make a admission that you were wrong into an attack against me for thinking you were wrong! Could anyone else do that? :)

You're still underestimating (especially how long all that sailing will take; remember that a few are not on warp squares and sailing there and back will take up a good block of time), but at least you're starting to think a bit more now. Kinda.

There are not 50 levels! I never had to use a fairy there.

30 to get the Triforce Chart, but there's another 20 much harder ones under those if you aim the light at the giant elephant (?) statue... I used one farie in the third set (level 20something), and the second in the middle of the fourth.

If the developers put it in the game as a way to make a quick rupee, then it's not cheating by any defintion of the word.

Which is why I said 'cheap'... it IS cheap. And like spending time boosting those ability scores in QFG it's pretty tedious as well...

Hey I don't have magical anti-suck juice....

I think I need to make a map. :) ... I'm good with maps...

You're still underestimating (especially how long all that sailing will take; remember that a few are not on warp squares and sailing there and back will take up a good block of time), but at least you're starting to think a bit more now. Kinda.

The spots on the sea chart where the triforce maps are located don't have to coincide with the warp destinations to get to the island. You could just warp to a destination block nearby the island and sail from there. So sailing from one island to another shouldn't take any more than 2 minutes at one time. Had you realized that? The reason I ask is because it sounds like you aren't using the warp song if it doesn't take you directly to an island. If I remember correctly (although it's been almost a year), the sailing in itself shouldn't take a whole hour.

The spots on the sea chart where the triforce maps are located don't have to coincide with the warp destinations to get to the island. You could just warp to a destination block nearby the island and sail from there. So sailing from one island to another shouldn't take any more than 2 minutes at one time. Had you realized that? The reason I ask is because it sounds like you aren't using the warp song if it doesn't take you directly to an island. If I remember correctly (although it's been almost a year), the sailing in itself shouldn't take a whole hour.


You need to explain what you mean better...

Hmm... okay, let's say that you're on Outset Island, and (all of this is for argument's sake, this probably isn't true) there's a Triforce Treasure chart on Greatfish Isle. Now, you play the warp song and find that you can't warp to Greatfish Isle directly, but you can warp to a neighboring square. Would you warp to the neighboring square and sail to Greatfish Isle from there, or would you sail all the way from Outset to Greatfish Isle (which is more like 5 squares away or so, but if that's not true, again, for argument's sake)? I would think that the only way the sailing collectively takes a whole hour is if you don't use the warp song at all, or perhaps only use it a couple times. Aren't you using it every time you need to get to a far-away island?

Hmm... I warp some but not all the time. When like I want to go halfway across the map I do but if I'm going to the next square or so I won't... but I'm not trying to get it done as fast as possible...

And several of the maps and stuff are not on squares with warps, so you need to sail to them (from the nearest warp generally).

That was... kinda his point actually. However it's apparent you don't do that for whatever reason... I tend not to hurry through my games either (unless there's a time trial challenge presented), but even I know a good thing when I see it like teleporting around.

Amazing, you know that? You are amazing. You manage to make a admission that you were wrong into an attack against me for thinking you were wrong! Could anyone else do that?

You're still underestimating (especially how long all that sailing will take; remember that a few are not on warp squares and sailing there and back will take up a good block of time), but at least you're starting to think a bit more now. Kinda.
I've said it a billion times before and I'm sure I'll say it a billion times again. You, ABF, are the dumbest person I have ever met in my entire life. No really, I mean it. I don't know what kind of reality-altering stupid goggles you use, but how you took my statement of how short the triforce rooms are as an "admission of defeat" and that I don't know how long it takes to beat that section of the game even though I've beaten it several times in one sitting (something you haven't done and fail to understand as a major flaw in your argument) is beyond my comprehension. I am actually at a loss for words right now. Your stupidity is... impossible to respond to.

30 to get the Triforce Chart, but there's another 20 much harder ones under those if you aim the light at the giant elephant (?) statue... I used one farie in the third set (level 20something), and the second in the middle of the fourth.
:erm:
Which is why I said 'cheap'... it IS cheap. And like spending time boosting those ability scores in QFG it's pretty tedious as well...
You're an idiot.
That was... kinda his point actually. However it's apparent you don't do that for whatever reason... I tend not to hurry through my games either (unless there's a time trial challenge presented), but even I know a good thing when I see it like teleporting around.

For some reason he likes to take the super long way and then can't believe it when someone does it ten times faster.

For some reason he likes to take the super long way and then can't believe it when someone does it ten times faster.

Yeah, right, that's exactly what I said! :hammer:

:erm:

What does that mean? I don't know...

I've said it a billion times before and I'm sure I'll say it a billion times again. You, ABF, are the dumbest person I have ever met in my entire life. No really, I mean it. I don't know what kind of reality-altering stupid goggles you use, but how you took my statement of how short the triforce rooms are as an "admission of defeat" and that I don't know how long it takes to beat that section of the game even though I've beaten it several times in one sitting (something you haven't done and fail to understand as a major flaw in your argument) is beyond my comprehension. I am actually at a loss for words right now. Your stupidity is... impossible to respond to.

Look, I think this arguement is incredibly stupid. Seriously, who cares if it takes half an hour or two hours... I only made an issue of it because you said 'half hour' and I took you at your word and said that that's impossible... now you admit it is probably impossible but won't conceed that I'm right (sure it's a dumb thing to be arguing about but you started it, not me!)

I took that to be an admission of defeat because of simple addition, as I stated.

Your QFG example doesn't really make sense to me. It's the same thing as running around in circles in any RPG fighting baddies to boost levels. It's not cheap, it's just something you can do if you want to. I know you aren't calling it cheating, but it's also not cheap.

My main complaint is that it is BORING. :)

Yeah, right, that's exactly what I said!

I know!

Look, I think this arguement is incredibly stupid. Seriously, who cares if it takes half an hour or two hours... I only made an issue of it because you said 'half hour' and I took you at your word and said that that's impossible... now you admit it is probably impossible but won't conceed that I'm right (sure it's a dumb thing to be arguing about but you started it, not me!)

I took that to be an admission of defeat because of simple addition, as I stated.

What the fuck is wrong with that brain of yours, boy? This whole time I've been telling you how extremely possible it is to do the whole thing in half an hour!! Idiot.

I know!

It's not even close.

I said that when I am going like halfway across the map I'd use the warp. If I'm going far, I do. If I'm going a square or something I wouldn't. Why> Because I'm not in a hurry, because I enjoy the sailing, because I see no point in just rushing to get it done as fast as possible... but if I had to go like four or five squares, I'd warp. But as I said for many squares you can only get within a square and you still have to sail.


What the fuck is wrong with that brain of yours, boy? This whole time I've been telling you how extremely possible it is to do the whole thing in half an hour!! Idiot.

I don't understand you. Not one bit. I can't even BEGIN to figure out how AFTER YOU SAID THAT YOU COULD NOT DO EVERYTHING IN HALF AN HOUR you still say you COULD! IT MAKES NO SENSE!

It's not even close.

I said that when I am going like halfway across the map I'd use the warp. If I'm going far, I do. If I'm going a square or something I wouldn't. Why> Because I'm not in a hurry, because I enjoy the sailing, because I see no point in just rushing to get it done as fast as possible... but if I had to go like four or five squares, I'd warp. But as I said for many squares you can only get within a square and you still have to sail.

Of course it's true, you take the long way!

I don't understand you. Not one bit. I can't even BEGIN to figure out how AFTER YOU SAID THAT YOU COULD NOT DO EVERYTHING IN HALF AN HOUR you still say you COULD! IT MAKES NO SENSE!

When did I say that, you weirdo??! I think you're losing it, boy!

Of course it's true, you take the long way!

I took the way that is most fun. Sailing some is fun. Sailing all the way across the map all the time is not. :)

When did I say that, you weirdo??! I think you're losing it, boy!

When you said how long the mini-dungeons take! Just do the math and add those numbers! It's above your half hour. :)

Then you said 36 minuites a bit later! Have you no memory?

When you said how long the mini-dungeons take! Just do the math and add those numbers! It's above your half hour.

Then you said 36 minuites a bit later! Have you no memory?

:muddled:

I took the way that is most fun. Sailing some is fun. Sailing all the way across the map all the time is not.



And that's the long way, stupid! That's why it took you so long!

When you said how long the mini-dungeons take! Just do the math and add those numbers! It's above your half hour.

Then you said 36 minuites a bit later! Have you no memory?


I never said 30 minutes exactly. I said "roughly a half hour" and "a little over a half hour".

I never said 30 minutes exactly. I said "roughly a half hour" and "a little over a half hour".


Knew you'd have to do that kind of thing to try to act like you won.

And that's the long way, stupid! That's why it took you so long!

No, the long way would be sailing everywhere...

RESIDENT EVIL 4 WON'T HAVE ZOMBIES!

I'm not mad I tell you, it's the truth! THE TRUTH!

Of course it will have zombies.

Knew you'd have to do that kind of thing to try to act like you won.

:muddled:

Of course it will have zombies.

I used to watch that show all the times.

Of course it will have zombies.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/adventure/residentevil4/preview_6091563.html

In a nutshell: You're being attacked by evil villagers in Europe, which are 'smart' and can use weapons/ run away. It also says there will be no Umbrella.

I agree with you. However, when (in the many side stories and official sequels) has Capcom ever given away any plot devices of any of their Resident Evil games?

Logically - The people attacking you are infected with 'something'. This infection must be caused by a perfected version of the viruses and parasites created by Umbrella. Keep in mind that this game is happening 6 years after every other RE, which all took place in the same year. The Umbrella corp. is down, but they were only a front for the testing of these viruses and parasites. The testing is still going on, the corp. is in hiding and you will, at some point in the game, see and or fight zombies.

I'll also make the claim at this point that there will be a form of Tyrant. A giant snake/Centipede. Huge spiders and yes, infected attack dogs. (give or take a mutant shark) in FACT, I will go even further to say that in this game you will meet and or fight many characters from the RE series including Wesker, Jill, Ada, Sherry and possibly (though I am not confident in this assumption) Barry. Not only that - But I say that you will find a handgun, an automatic weapon, perhaps a flamethrower; The Magnum, the rocket launcher and (DARE I SAY THIS, YES I DARE) ALTERNATE COSTUMES!

FURTHER MORE;

At one point in the game you will use a strange metalic/shiny orb/richly cut jewel/oddly shaped box or symbol to open a gate/door/electronic lock/drain a pool/operate heavy machinery and perhaps but not limited to disarming a security device to gain entrence to a room/locker/building/casket/file cabinet or pantry where inside you will find a green herb/red herb/blue herb/ink ribbon/box of bullets/clip/box of shells/grenades/acid rounds/incendiary rounds/first aid spray/ AND/OR a key/key with a symbol on it/rusted old key/key with numbers on one side and possibly the key marked "Power Generator" which you will use to enter the specified location where in you will discover a plot device/new goal/boss fight/new character/weapon/weapon upgrade or simply a puzzle. And I am CONFIDENT, SIR, THAT YOU WILL DO THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR ABOUT 10 HOURS UNTIL YOU FIGHT A LARGE THING THAT IS HARD TO KILL.

I THINK I have proved my POINT, good day to you.

Haha, that picture made my day, lazy.

Knew you'd have to do that kind of thing to try to act like you won.



No, the long way would be sailing everywhere...


:whatever:

You're such an idiot.

@ lazyfatbum: My bad. I didn't totally understand what you meant. I was talking about zombies in the traditional RE rotting, shambling sense. Your theory on them being infected by a perfected version of the T-virus that doesn't kill them, but just make them hostile was one of my first guesses. (sort of like the virus in 28 days later, but instead they still retain their intelligence)

(DARE I SAY THIS, YES I DARE) ALTERNATE COSTUMES!

Hahaha, it's funny because it's true.

I think RE4 does have SOME zombies, but there are also crazy villagers.

It's somewhere in the middle, OB1. :)

Your face is somewhere in the middle.


Yeah...

Uh huh. :)