Twin Snakes

So... who got it? Nobody is talking about it? Yeesh.

I didn't even know it was out yet.

:shake:

Oh yeah?! Well, I bet you don't have it yet either!

I bought it this morning... $35 at Best Buy (with the $5 coupon that ABF hates so much) and it came with a free third-party memory card.

Congrats! Now you can save and worry every single waking moment that the save file won't be there, which it won't. :D

I wasn't aware it was so close to release either. It was months ago that I last heard any REAL news, so I just decided to wait until I heard anything else or it came out, you know whichever came first. Tell me this OB1, does it come with the original Metal Gear (not Solid, just "Metal Gear") like the Japanese release of this game does? I'm still getting it anyway, just wondering is all.

Anyway, it's going to be a while before I get this game, for the same old reasons.

Who likes Easter Eggs? Not the holiday oriented fetal chickens, I'm talking about hidden fun stuff!

Well, Silicon Knights was involved in this game, so they've got a little something. Try placing a girlie magazine on the ground and look who shows up...Alex Roivas :).

I'm sure theres more but I've yet to discover them. I'm still amazed how good the game looks.

...
I'd think saving the multiverse would give her more confidence than that...

Hey, she needed money! The Tome of Eternal Darkness and Pious' staff got surprisingly low resale value, considering their age.

I bought it this morning... $35 at Best Buy (with the $5 coupon that ABF hates so much) and it came with a free third-party memory card.

Hot shit! Where do you get that coupon?

You should have been around during the several weeks when OB1 was working for Best Buy :D. Well, not working, but he was totally selling this thing to us. I myself am interested enough that should I happen to be NEAR a Best Buy in the future when I'm trying to find a game I'll do it (it's pretty far though). ABF however hates companies that succeed.

(WHAT edit button?????)

Oh, and does anyone know if the difficulty has been dumbed down at all? I sure as hell hope not... I watched a video at IGN, though, of Snake shooting Revolver Ocelot (in the first battle), and it looked a lot easier than in the PSX version.

First person view is nice, but the battle is still challenging.

EM: Good to hear, good to hear. I hate games that are way too easy, and the original MGS had a very nice challenge level.

SJ, what are you talking about regarding the edit button? No one here said anything about it... By the way, it's over in the lower right of your post...

Oh yes, I read that IGN review just to check things out. Those people have no idea what they are talking about. It's like they are pretending they actually played the game but were actually asking people who have from the Playstation crew what they remembered, and the PS guys lied to them or just forgot...

First thing's first, THE ORIGINAL VERSION ALSO HAD FIRST PERSON AIMING MODE! In fact, just to make sure I was right, I started up the game. I'm aiming and shooting right now in fact. One of the weapons in fact can ONLY be used in this mode. Unless what they actually mean is that you can now run around while in first person (which you can't even do in MGS2), they just plum forgot about an ability in there. You know, the battles are actually pretty easy once you've figured some tricks out in MGS. Revolver may have only looked easy because they had fought him a lot and memorized his patterns. I didn't watch that video myself though.

I know there was something else they got wrong about the original, but I forget what. Here's the thing, how intact is the Metal Gear theme music? I know it's been heavily remixed, but can it still be recognized, or is it SO remixed that it's like the Hyrule field theme of Ocarina of time, where if you pay attention you hear little strains and bits of tunes that are from the standard theme but it's not recognizable very quickly.

IGN said that some parts (including some bosses) were made a lot easier because you could be in first-person mode at any time...

And as I said, you can be in first person mode at any time in the original, so unless they mean you can now actually RUN AROUND in first person mode (you can't move around in first person mode in the original), then they must have forgotten something about the original. I wouldn't put it past them. They are after just like us, only paid to do it.

First person mode now works like MGS2, I believe. And they specifically say in their review that the first person thing makes some bosses easier... just read the review yourself... :)

SJ, what are you talking about regarding the edit button? No one here said anything about it... By the way, it's over in the lower right of your post...

Every time someone makes two posts in a row on this board (which is what I originally would have done, but you actually posted one minute before me), someone else always comes out and attempts to be witty (and fails) by snootily reminding them that an edit button exists. I should know, because I'm pretty sure I've done it before.

ABF, I have, and I'm trying to say they are wrong, not asking what they said. First person in MGS2 and MGS1 (original) work exactly the same way. You can do everything you want in first person except actually move around (except when in intrusion mode, where you are crawling in some pipes or something). The only question is if they mean you can now actually RUN AROUND in first person view. It's possible they added that of course, but they never said that. They only mention that you can go into first person mode now, when you could in the original and that worked exactly the same as in MGS2.

ABF, I have, and I'm trying to say they are wrong, not asking what they said. First person in MGS2 and MGS1 (original) work exactly the same way. You can do everything you want in first person except actually move around (except when in intrusion mode, where you are crawling in some pipes or something). The only question is if they mean you can now actually RUN AROUND in first person view. It's possible they added that of course, but they never said that. They only mention that you can go into first person mode now, when you could in the original and that worked exactly the same as in MGS2.
With the exception of the Stinger and PSG-1, you could look around in first-person mode but you certainly could not aim and fire weapons while in it.

That's kind of relieving to hear. That game would have been much easier if you could aim and shoot in the first person. :confused2 Well, the portion I played through, at least.

With the exception of the Stinger and PSG-1, you could look around in first-person mode but you certainly could not aim and fire weapons while in it.

So do they mean that now you can?

http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/march04/mgsttsgcn/

Yup, now you can fire from first-person mode.

Oh, and Gamespy has some interesting critiques of the controls... as you might expect they had to make some compromises going from PSX to NGC...

Twin Snakes is running on MGS2's engine, so using weapons in FP mode is a given, not to mention a very welcome addition. It doesn't make the game easier, it just means that if you're a good shot, you'll use less ammo. It also makes the game slightly more realistic, as it would be my instinct to aim for the head, and you cannot do that in the PSX MGS. It also allowed for gameplay instances that could not exist with the engine of the first game... for instance, shooting radios.

What I wonder is if the weapons have been retooled to how they are in MGS2. For example, in MGS1, grenades, claymores, C4, Stingers and PSG-1 shots were instant kill weapons against most enemies, but in MGS2, it would take multiple grenades, C4, et cetera to kill a soldier, with the exception of a PSG-1 head shot (in MGS1, a single shot, no matter where it hit, killed a regular enemy).

I too hope the explosives are still one hit kill, as that makes a lot more sense, while the sniper rifles have the MGS2 system going for them.

Ah yes, you see Weltall I actually loaded my file at the end of the game and tested the first weapon I came across, which is the machine gun built into that truck you escape in. I tried first person, and firing in first person, and they both worked fine. The only times I remember using first person though were when using the stinger missile launcher and sniper scope myself, so I suppose I didn't notice you couldn't fire other weapons in first person (though you could still look in it). Well, no matter. IGN still gives the false impression that the entire first person feature was added to the game when it was in the original version. It'll be nice to aim, though I will say this Weltall (and it probably applies to you too). When sneaking around, if I find I have to, I too aim for the head. However, when in a fire fight with lots of people around, I aim for the chest as it's a much easier target to hit.

Congrats! Now you can save and worry every single waking moment that the save file won't be there, which it won't.



Haha, I know I know, but third-party memory cards have come a very long way since the N64 days. They actually keep your save files now!

I wasn't aware it was so close to release either. It was months ago that I last heard any REAL news, so I just decided to wait until I heard anything else or it came out, you know whichever came first. Tell me this OB1, does it come with the original Metal Gear (not Solid, just "Metal Gear") like the Japanese release of this game does? I'm still getting it anyway, just wondering is all.



Nope. :(

Hot shit! Where do you get that coupon?


I've mentioned this several times in the past but stopped doing so after DJ and ABF complained about me telling people about great deals. I'll send you a PM.

Oh yes, I read that IGN review just to check things out. Those people have no idea what they are talking about. It's like they are pretending they actually played the game but were actually asking people who have from the Playstation crew what they remembered, and the PS guys lied to them or just forgot...



:rolleyes:

I remember when MGS came out Matt Cassamassina was talking about how great it was in the ign64 mailbag. They don't only play games from their specific channels, you know. I post at a Nintendo board yet--*GASP!*--I also play games from other consoles! Who knew that was allowed! :p

Ah yes, you see Weltall I actually loaded my file at the end of the game and tested the first weapon I came across, which is the machine gun built into that truck you escape in. I tried first person, and firing in first person, and they both worked fine. The only times I remember using first person though were when using the stinger missile launcher and sniper scope myself, so I suppose I didn't notice you couldn't fire other weapons in first person (though you could still look in it). Well, no matter. IGN still gives the false impression that the entire first person feature was added to the game when it was in the original version. It'll be nice to aim, though I will say this Weltall (and it probably applies to you too). When sneaking around, if I find I have to, I too aim for the head. However, when in a fire fight with lots of people around, I aim for the chest as it's a much easier target to hit.


No they didn't, I knew exactly what they were talking about when they said "FPS aiming ala MGS2". You CANNOT aim and shoot all of your weapons in MGS1. That is a very unique feature to MGS2 which has been carried over to Twin Snakes. As a matter of fact Konami themselves advertise Twin Snakes as having the gameplay from MGS2, including "first-person aiming and shooting".

Well IGN didn't make it very clear though. They should have said what they meant. Just saying first person isn't enough.

They said "First person shooting ala MGS2". That's what everyone said, even Konami.

Oh and has anyone noticed that Konami hasn't released on single commercial for the game in the U.S. yet? If TS underperforms then Konami is gonna be like "see?? mature games don't sell on Gamecube OMG!!!!" even though they put almost zero marketing behind it.

Yeah, I haven't seen any commercials at all for it. Weird.

I was in EB yesterday and some people saw the game and said it looked good and it was too bad that it and RE were only on Cube...

Well then they should buy a Gamecube.

I know, and that's what Nintendo's hoping, but is it happening much?

More people should be buying GCs, and if they did then we could have WORLD PEACE!!

World peace, oh yeah big dreams there... Why don't people ever include the REST of the universe?

... because for all we know Omicron Persei 8 and Gargos 9 are all happy and peaceful...

But what about the planet Nintendoo 64? Doesn't anyone care about it?!

QUARTERS!

NICKLES!!!

DIMES!!!!!

(We're going to run out of coins and exclamation points here soon...)

More people should be buying GCs, and if they did then we could have WORLD PEACE!!

Nah we would have just have a better reason to kill shiggy for ruining are lives and relationships.
fin ~

Are you kidding? The magic of Shiggy cures all wounds!

LOONIES!!!!!!

No one said we HAD to use American currency!

... back to the topic.

The game is a lot of fun, but it's true that the gameplay is really showing its age. No analog movement, the boss fights are pretty dull now (and easy most of the time thanks to the first-person mode), and overall it doesn't really stack up to newer stealth games like Splinter Cell. The graphics are pretty nice, not quite as good as MGS2 but still nice. Every once in a while the framerate really struggles (I've noticed it in certain areas when more than a few enemies started attacking me while in first-person mode), but it's not too frequent so it's not a huge deal. The cinemas are some of the best I've ever seen in a game before, and it's true that the gameplay pales in comparison to it. Especially the boss fights. You see this amazing cinema leading up to them and then when you fight them it's pretty dull. Just look at the Ninja fight. It's still a fun game, just not as timeless as I thought it would be.

The more I play Twin Snakes the more I get excited about MGS3, though. It looks to be the first major gameplay leap in the series since the original Metal Gear. This holiday season is going to be amazing, I tell ya. Better than 2002, even.

Having completed it, I'll now give my personal review of the game.

First off, when I first heard about this, I thought this would be a remake on par with Resident Evil Rebirth and Sword of Mana. Turns out, while in some ways it is a total overhaul, the actual game is pretty much the exact same map with the exact same story. While I would have liked the map to be expanded and updated, to be honest the story was fine as it was anyway and didn't need expanding, so I'm cool with that.

Anyway, first off regarding how the updated gameplay changes things. The AI of the guards is almost exactly like that found in MGS2. Some may say that the Genome soldiers should be better than "mere russians", but as BOTH games make clear, genes aren't everything, and the lack of experience puts them about even with the war hardened russians. Now, to be honest the complete lack of distance vision has kinda bothered me ever since MGS. They can see like 3 feet and then nothing. I forgive it for gamplay's sake of course, but I certainly hope that, with the size MGS3 appears to be, they manage to give the guards some sort of RANGE to their sight.

Eh, that's more of a general thing though. Anyway, there are some things they didn't bring over from MGS2. Namely, in MGS2 if you ran to another area when you were in alert, the guards would follow you and the area you entered would only go down to searching. Also, rather than guards taking the entrances like normal corporeal beings like in MGS2, they do the same thing they did in MGS original and just appear from nowhere right outside the screen. I wish they had managed to encorporate those two aspects for realism's sake. The first one would have added a nice boost of challenge to the game (not that it was lacking, but this sort of challenge, the "you can't just run to another room to make them stop looking" sort, is certainly welcome). The second one would have made things a little easier in a realistic way, in that you would be able to predict where they would come from and there would be some time between them entering the door and them reaching you. The difficulty would balance out, and in the end it would be a richer experience.

The controls are very well done. It's rather odd that they thought they would actually have to use button COMBOS for the map and codec. Honestly I think it would have worked just as well to simply have the pause button, by itself, pause the game, and then press either b or a to access whatever (more than a few times I'm too panicked to remember to use the button combos). Running is just as analog as in the original as far as direction goes. Speed is another matter. In the original, you could ONLY run. I killed myself trying to get things near some molten metal more than a few times in the original, but now I can walk. Yes, it's not a full range of control, but two speeds is enough. I will say that the awkwardness of the Z button really comes to the forfront here. I won't blame Konami or Silicon Knights for this, but rather Nintendo for making such a terrible button as that.

However, aside from that I found the additions to the gameplay to really enhance the game. I really loved the whole experience. Some have said that certain abilities like being able to ledge hang make come parts too easy. However, this just isn't true. The enemies ALSO have new abilities, so any time you assume to have a distinct advantage, they can still detect you and go after you well enough. For example, in the tank hanger there is a walkway you can hang on and drop into the room with to avoid the camera. However, a disadvantage to the hanging is that they can easily see you while you are doing the whole drop down thing, and also you make a bit of noies doing it so anyone too close will turn around and then see you. It takes as much strategy to properly get by using hanging as it does to sneak by the camera and down the stairs.

Another thing people have complained about is that the ability to use more weapons in first person mode makes the boss fights easier. Honestly they should have told the bosses that, because not once did I ever get a distinct advantage using first person mode. Fighting Ocelot, for example, taking the time to aim and shoot leaves you open, and he can still hide rather well anyway. It will always take about a second to aim after going into that mode due to the fact that you have to figure out what you are looking at for a second when you do that, after all the brain isn't really designed for sudden scene shifts. While I did end up using that for headshots, I still had to wait for my chance. It was still easier to use the autoaim in 3rd person to hit him, though it didn't do as much damage. In the fight against Raven in a tank, first person didn't really help at all. I use grenades there, and running around while throwing grenades is about the only way to prevent being crushed, even after taking out the treads. First person is actually a hindrance there. Second time against him, first person is also a stupid thing to do because you're goal is to quickly shoot him when he's not looking, using corner view for example or 3rd person shoot and run, or much better, the standard way of setting up traps for him. The corner view is what really made a difference there, or would if I was just trying to knock him out for a no kills game. Even then, he seemed harder this time around for some reason. On to Sniper Wolf, well honestly there's not a single difference there. The sniper rifle has always been first person capable, in fact you can't use it outside first person. Any other weapon doesn't work at all due to the distance. This goes for both battles. (Actually, in the second one I use the Nikita while hiding behind something. Tricky but once you find a speed route to her, it works just fine. Still, no difference because the Nikita is ALSO a first person view weapon in the original.) The battle against Psycho Mantis it can make a difference actually, if you are fast enough. In fact, that's just about the only way I shot at him. You can't stay in that mode for long before the mental feedback starts of course, but even there Konami purposefully changed it. In the original, it was instant, but now it takes a few seconds for that to happen, allowing you to use it. One could still use 3rd person mode, and I'm sure it would work well enough, but in order to do the same amount of damage, time to aim. This is the only one where I'd say the first person mode really helped. However, they made this battle harder in many ways with extra things he can do, and he seems a bit faster as well. The battle against Ninja is also exactly the same because you can only use your fists. In fact, the battles against Liquid, all 4 of them, are also exactly the same because the only weapons you can use all work just like in the original. Now then, during the mini-boss battles against genome soldiers, it can make a difference depending on if you find it easier to spin around in first person mode to take them out or if you plan on running around shooting madly like I did to take them out. As I said, I had a much easier time of it by the running around spraying bullets method. Fortunatly, since I sneak most of the time, my FAMAS had more than enough ammo. Outside of boss battles, the first person mode is just something added to give you a fighting chance against the smarter soldiers, so it all evens out there. Basically, I just can't see how it makes things easier in the battles where it makes a difference, and as I said in most of the boss battles it makes no difference whatsoever because you can't even use the weapons where first person mode has been added for them in a lot of boss battles.

Okay, on to the script. Honestly I'm shocked they went out of their way to rewrite and re-read the whole thing, considering it's mostly the same or at least means the same thing, and the first time around was an excellent translation and script anyway. However, there is ONE part where the new script falters.

In the original, when Maryl is shot and she gives her dramatic speech about the truth of battle, it's different. She says she realizes now that there is no glory on the battlefield, just survival and horror. It's certainly not something anyone should ever WANT to do. However, in the new script, that whole moving speech is replaced by a few short sentences that sum up like this. "War is bad, nothing good comes from fighting." Honestly, the original if you ask me was SO much better and had SO much more impact. I still take it that she was THINKING all those things, because that's the one I like more, but honestly I really wish they had kept that speech in there. Fortunatly, her speech to Snake to "Live!" was kept intact, but without the truth of combat speech it really didn't have the same impact on me. THe rest of the game kinda suffered for me after that. The REST of the script adhered to the original VERY well, and was a very good read, some parts even superior to the original script, but when such a pivotal part of the original is changed to something that saturday morning cartoons teach, then everything based on that suffers. I managed to still get into it only because I kept remembering her ORIGNAL speech rather than the new one for the rest of the game.

The REST of the script is pretty much flawless, as is the reading (well a couple lines near the end lack a bit of the emotion of the original reading, but it's only a few and they aren't really bad readings of those two or so lines...), and in some places is better. Oh yes, some complain about how Mei Ling, while having the same voice actor, no longer has the asian accent. Honestly, I really have no fault with this. I LIKE that they got rid of the accent. It wasn't a very good accent if you ask me in the original anyway. The character was born and raised in America, so it's natural that she would have an American accent rather than an asian one. Having one really didn't fit. Nastasha kept her accent, but it's just a tad subdued. Honestly I don't mind this either. The original was just fine but the subdued Russian accent is also fine. Either way it works for her. Other than that, the only real change in the voices I noticed was Grey Fox. Didn't check if they had to get a new actor for him, but he certainly sounds different and it's a different take on the character. Honestly I don't mind the way he sounded, except he is where those two lines I mentioned above in the spoiler section kinda lacked the right emotional impact, near the end. I think the voice actor should have put a bit more emotion into those last few lines of his, but I dunno, maybe on my second play through I'll be able to appreciate it. Hearing it again, maybe I'll be right in that I think it may just be read as though he's kinda lost a lot of soul over the years. I dunno, fact is as of now I prefer the original reading of those last lines of his.

In a couple areas, I wish they DID change some things. For example, in the original AND this one there are a few lines which, if you found some info out already via mandatory conversations, seem a little out of place. Snake shouldn't be surprised to find out info he just found out anyway. You'll see what I mean. Also, I always had a problem with how Liquid Snake keeps calling Solid Snake "Snake" all the time. It makes sense for everyone else, but Liquid is ALSO a Snake, and he says Snake's codename, which he also shares, with such contempt. Honestly I think Liquid should have called him "Solid" throughout the entire game. Would have provided a nice contrast. Just a personal thing though, works anyway.

Now then, as for the graphics, I too find it odd that they aren't really that great compaired to most GC titles. I may not have noticed it without reading the review, but having read it I did in fact notice that some of the textures seemed low res and undetailed. Fortunatly, the textures that mattered were nice looking. They did the job, and most importantly, they finally move their mouths, in that weird way that the characters move their mouths in MGS2 :D.

There is an issue regarding the codec scenes though. There is some noticable lag loading the various hand drawn animations of the character's faces (glad they kept those, they look nice and create a nice contrast to how MGS2 did it), which kinda throws off the whole timing there. Also, there's a glitch where when a character says "....", their lips still move as opposed to the original, where this didn't occur. Honestly they should have been able to avoid these things considering the original did the exact same things with the codec on a technical level and had no such issues.

As for the cinema scenes, well... First off, I didn't think they threw off the adrenaline and excitement of the battle itself, no more than cinema scenes of battle in other games throw off the actual gameplay part of them anyway. I think a part of that is because I WAS FIGHTING FOR MY LIFE so I suppose it felt very exciting due to that little aspect :D. Second off, while they are creative... and I suppose well choreographed, I found the scenes to be WAY over the top, to the point of being hilarious a lot of the time. I mean, just WATCH those scenes. Those I've shown some of the scenes to agree I might add. Sure they are cool, but cool to the point of being utterly ridiculous. You know the fight scenes in Family Guy, where you laugh at how absurd they are even though on their own they would be cool examples of skill? That's how it is here. I mean, the ending scenes of the battles against Raven-In-Tank and Liquid-In-Harrier really are the ones that pushed it too far. I mean, he flipped off a rocket and fired it as it turned around? Right... He went all bad arse holding a grenade until the last second before throwing it into a tank's main cannon? I mean, he frickin' walked away in slow motion from a flaming explosion! That's just TOO cliched! However, in general this over the top nature, while I can overlook it on it's own, ended up really kinda undermining the originally intended mood of the game. Snake is supposed to be a mere human. Granted, the most skilled human there is, but a human none the less. He isn't supposed to be able to dodge bullets like in The Matrix. It makes him seem super human, which is certainly not what he's all about. (Another thing, what was with the lift to Raven with the four soldiers shooting at Snake and when their crossfire meets there's a frickin' EXLOSION, a BIG one? That doesn't even make SENSE.) In the case of the part where Snake is captured, he originally gives up because he knows better than to resist against 3 heavily armed soldiers, no matter how skilled he is. Now though, he's made into a bad arse who SO coulda taken them if not for Wolf showing up, and then to completely contradict the awesome abilities he suddenly has over every other human on the planet, he's knocked out with a gun butt to the head. Seriously, the original scenes were fine as they were. If they were going to remake them, they could have been more subtle about it. I'm sure they could have looked awesome without being completely ridiculous at the same time. Yes, for the super humans there it makes sense, like Ocelot is a giant, so he should be capable of being able to hurl a giant crate at Snake for example, but Snake shouldn't be able to whip out a Nikita and blow up the crate at a range of 2 inches without taking any damage at all, especially after he's been sent flying by much smaller explosions. A little bit more than what he was doing in the original would have been fine and dandy, but this was just laughable. Fortunatly, near the end, with the more serious storyline going on, the cinema scenes took on a much more subtle air about them. I'm glad for that at any rate.

Now come the extras. To be honest I was expecting more. On the one hand, things like a dog tag hunt was added, as well as more difficulty levels and a boss survival mode. On the other hand, ALL the VR missions are COMPLETELY gone. The original had a small number of VR missions in it, and I was at least expecting those. Later however, a special VR collection was released that had about a billion special training missions as well as entire full fledged missions in the VR. This was eventually bundled with MGS original and sold together as one package. However, this remake, as I said, lacks all of these. Now, I'll be the first to say I found the VR training missions boring anyway. However, the stuff unlocked later, the stuff that's not just one level of enemy avoiding and such and where you actual have a real objective to accomplish, I did in fact find very fun. It's sad to be missing those. However, I do suspect that Konami may in fact be planning to release some sort of Substance version of MGS: TTS which will add all manner of VR missions and such as well as some alternate Snake Tales and a skateboarding mode and maybe "Solid Snake Painting By Number" :D.

Anyway, after all this stuff my opinion is not completely decided. I'll make up my mind for certain after getting the Otacon ending.

Until then, I will say that for the most part, this is the defninitive Metal Gear Solid experience, but I'm certainly keeping the original due to that one major script problem, and the more subdued, if not as cool, cinema scenes.

I didn't read that whole thing, but the lack of analog controls suck! Especially for a stealth game.

Um, I thought it did have analog controls... full range of direction but not full range of speeds though. 2 speeds is plenty for this game (found the original ONE speed to be not enough though), though I agree that in the future full speed range is a must.

It did not have analog movement. That might have been okay six years ago, but now? Oh heavens no.

You know that 'analog' and digital' are not always great definitions for this? Like a digital joystick for PC. It's digital, not analog, but it's a joystick... 'proportional' is probably the more accurate term. :)

Two walking speeds is most definitely not analog, ABF.

Eh, whatever. It was enough for me and it's no less than what was in MGS2, so I'm satisfied. I SAID I expect more from MGS3, what do you want my opinion to be?

Two walking speeds is most definitely not analog, ABF. Eh, yes it is. If you tilt the stick a little, he crawls. If you tilt it full, he runs. That is analog controlling. Now, it's not GREAT analog controlling, it's not incremental. But it's still there.

Now, I just now finished Twin Snakes. Here is what I think. Keep in mind that I have included spoilers all over this review, and parsing them with tags would make for a very hard-to-read post. So don't even read this if you don't want stuff spoiled for you.











First off, the game is gorgeous. It is considerably better-looking than MGS2 was. This is most apparent in the character modeling. When I saw a tear in Meryl's eye, dirt and smudges on Snake's face, or the bruises and blood on Liquid's face, or how Snake had a visible layer of sweat on his body after the torture scene, I saw an improvement over MGS2. There is very little noticable aliasing, and the polys themselves are more detailed.

Second, the cut-scenes. I liked the additions. I thought many of them added to the original storyline in a good way. I felt that the superior graphics were able to better convey emotion, making the scenes with Meryl more real. Also, I could much more easily see that the Snakes were twins, because the PSX models didn't seem to have the same faces. I also like how the Snake/Meryl relationship was deepened, should you decide to brave the torture. What did irritate me, however, was how almost all of the characters with accents sound straight American now. Mei Ling lost her Korean accent, Naomi's British accent was totally missing (and honestly, since she was quite important it was hard for me to associate her with her new voice), and others like Nastasha and Sniper Wolf retained them, but they were much thinner. I did not like that. Meryl's voice was different too, but it was an improvement. The old Meryl sounded like Peppermint Patty. Those minor gripes aside, the additions and subtle alterations were well worth the price of admission.

Gameplay: This is what really disappointed me the most about this game. For starters, I gotta say that I loved having the first-person aiming mode. I also liked having the far more intelligent enemies, as these helped to somewhat cancel out the decreased challenge from the aiming. However, what really disappointed me was just how similar the game really was to the original. It seemed as though they did not even go so far as to change up the soldier's routes. I had hoped that there would be some gameplay surprises thrown at me. One thing that made MGS2 harder was that the soldiers were often placed well enough to get in your way at the worst times. Also, in TS, evasion was much easier. As soon as you leave an area, your caution meter resets! Now, the tension of surviving a coordinated assault is lessened, as they'll forget all about you the minute you leave the room. Now, I played on Normal mode, so I don't know if this applies to the harder modes, but it was still incredibly disappointing.

It must also be noted that the addition of the M9 made two parts of the game far, far easier than they once were (those being the Nuke Building 1F and the Caves), as now you can easily neutralize enemies that were either very hard to kill because you couldn't use weapons (Nuke Bldg) or invincible to weaponry, period (wolves in the Caves). But, the other weapons were retooled nicer. I liked being able to stand and use the sniper rifle, for instance.

Now, there was gripes about the poor analog control. Well, it really wasn't an issue for me because sneaking was so rarely required. There were so few points in the game that required real sneaking, of course because the game was originally designed without it in mind. But, I do have issues with the controls. For one, this was D-Pad all the way, but I sorely missed the PS2's analog D-Pad, for with it you could sneak without going analog. I missed the extra shoulder buttons. I missed the analog face buttons period. Now, if I aimed the weapon, I had to fire a shot. In MGS2, slowly releasing the fire button lets you conserve the shot. This made for several Alerts that I did not deserve and was very irritating. Second, I finally figured out the Cube's odd button scheme for the game, but I did die a few times for that pleasure. And yes, the first person mode did make some of the bosses easier, but on the same token, I found a few of them to be a bit harder than the orignal. Psycho Mantis in particular was quite difficult at first, as I did not realize switching the controller once wasn't enough: I had to keep doing it. He was also harder to hit and his attacks were better. Also, the fight with the Abrams tank was harder in my opinion, because it seemed like the gunners were better shots, and you had to be much more precise with your aiming of the grenades to score a good hit. If it was only a glancer, it would take a dozen grenades to do the job. Ocelot was a pushover, I nailed him in about ten seconds, and first-person mode was responsible. I found both Sniper Wolf battles to be no different, nor was the second Raven fight. I think they neutered Metal Gear Ray, because while the gameplay was no different, he just seemed less willing to fire shots at me. I beat it with and without the Radome without even getting a scratch.

And finally, I touched on it once but it's important: I was disappointed with how the game itself was so unchanged. Maybe it was to be faithful, maybe not. But the game threw very few surprises at me, and that was a shame. Unfortunately, I could not play through Resident Evil ReMake because I could never tackle the terrible controls, but I did see it be played through and there was a lot changed and added, to confuse and distract the veteran who thought he knew it all. I was hoping there would be some of that in Twin Snakes, and that there was very little was a huge letdown (though I gotta say, I was prone to forgetting that the trap doors stay open after being tripped, I lost three lives that way).

Overall, I'd have to rate it an 9 out of 10, because while there were some disappointments, it is still one of my all-time favorite games with a bucket of next-generation improvements. And I have yet to tackle the real hard modes yet. :)













Okay, spoilers over.

Weltall, you should know that while I too missed the analog firing button (oh how I missed it), there is another easy solution. Two actually. First, you can just unequip your gun to conserve that shot. Second, if you press Y while still holding A, you put down your weapon, and now you can just release both buttons to conserve the shot without even unequiping your weapon. The analog button is better though...

I'm surprised you played through the whole game on the d-pad actually. Even on the original I much preferred the precision control on my angle that using the stick brought. But, you know, to each their own.

Oh yes, the M9 wasn't in the original? I had thought so, but I wasn't entirely sure. Honestly there are other things that make it easier to get past a lot of part too, namely being able to shoot out cameras. Since that can be done now, a lot of parts that were only hard BECAUSE of the cameras are easy now. They could have changed the layout of the cameras to require some sneaking skills to get in and shoot one out while the other isn't looking, or better yet, they could make the people in charge WATCHING the cameras actually get suspicious when a screen suddenly shows nothing but static. I always found it odd that they would just ignore that. They could send in a team to investigate, and if they didn't find anything, they would only say that they need to send a repair team later to fix the camera (that you never see), so you'd know that over time the cameras would be fixed when you entered the room a while from then. That's actually a gripe for MGS2 as well, but not so much because that game was actually originally designed with the ability to shoot out the cameras in mind, so it was harder and there were more guards around the cameras.

Below are spoilers, but hey Weltall should read this because I'm asking him some questsions in here.

I already said my opinion on the accent changes, so I won't add anything there since it hasn't changed. However, I'll add one thing about the cinema scenes. I suppose if I went through again, having seen them already, I'll be able to appreciate them more. They just jumped out at me as absurd the first time I saw them, but near the end it wasn't quite like that. Whether it was because I got used to the extremeness of it all or if they really did mellow them down near the end I'll decide after I play through again.

Regarding the graphics, I didn't notice any of those things unless the cinemas really made a point to advertise them. I'll have to keep an eye out for dirt on Snake's face and such. Honestly to me the graphics seemed worse, but it might just be that I think that because while MGS2 was graphically stunning at the time it came out, graphics have jumped by such leaps that it's not so much now. It's likely just me...

Considering the script was almost exactly the same, I am curious to know exactly what you meant by the Meryl/Snake relationship being deepened. I would like to know where they expanded on it as you saw it.

I will ask you this, in the above spoiler section in my above review, did you also notice what they changed about Meryl's lines during the scene where she is shot? I myself still find that the one thing I really don't like about the script.

One other thing, do you agree that it's a shame that this game has a chunk less gameplay now that they have removed all the training levels? As I said, it's not those boring "kill them all" or "target practise" levels I like, but the ones you unlock later with actual missions I thought were cool. However, I may be surprised and just maybe those will be unlocked when I beat it with the Otacon ending.

Oh and, well you know how I feel about trying to quantify subjective experience.

I already said my opinion on the accent changes, so I won't add anything there since it hasn't changed. However, I'll add one thing about the cinema scenes. I suppose if I went through again, having seen them already, I'll be able to appreciate them more. They just jumped out at me as absurd the first time I saw them, but near the end it wasn't quite like that. Whether it was because I got used to the extremeness of it all or if they really did mellow them down near the end I'll decide after I play through again.
I thought some of the Matrix-influenced stunts were over-the-top, but all things considered, they aren't terribly out of place in Metal Gear. Need I remind you of the even less-believable stuff that went on in the second game?

Regarding the graphics, I didn't notice any of those things unless the cinemas really made a point to advertise them. I'll have to keep an eye out for dirt on Snake's face and such. Honestly to me the graphics seemed worse, but it might just be that I think that because while MGS2 was graphically stunning at the time it came out, graphics have jumped by such leaps that it's not so much now. It's likely just me... I dunno, maybe it's because I have a better eye for the nuances? This comes down to mostly opinion about graphics, really. I think the major difference was how much better the characters looked. They looked like they had skin in Twin Snakes, as opposed to the waxy, plastic-like texture used for skin in Sons of Liberty. And, best of all, Snake was without the mullet!

Considering the script was almost exactly the same, I am curious to know exactly what you meant by the Meryl/Snake relationship being deepened. I would like to know where they expanded on it as you saw it. If you've beaten the game and saved Meryl, there is a very, very obvious deepening of the relationship. In the original, it is assumed, but only slightly hinted-at, that there was a romantic future for Snake and Meryl. One easily assumes that there were sparks, but the characters never went so far as to blantantly say so. In Twin Snakes, they are much, much more openly affectionate to each other, both of them. Hell, they get kissing close at least once. It was done very well, too. It was how I felt it should have originally been.

I will ask you this, in the above spoiler section in my above review, did you also notice what they changed about Meryl's lines during the scene where she is shot? I myself still find that the one thing I really don't like about the script. I agree. That made me groan. "War is bad"? Woof!

One other thing, do you agree that it's a shame that this game has a chunk less gameplay now that they have removed all the training levels? As I said, it's not those boring "kill them all" or "target practise" levels I like, but the ones you unlock later with actual missions I thought were cool. However, I may be surprised and just maybe those will be unlocked when I beat it with the Otacon ending.
Honestly, not really. I was never a fan of the VR missions.

Honestly I don't even know what a mullet is, so I have no idea what people are talking about when they complain of it.

Concerning the cinema scenes in MGS2, I dunno, I guess they were silly, but maybe it just didn't jump out at me. Okay, here's one thing they really should have toned down on. They use the rapid camera zoom and swishing sound effect combo like 200 times per scene.

Concerning Meryl and Snake, honestly I guess it just seemed a lot more obvious what was going on in the original. Yeah I don't think I remember a kiss either, but the love interest was certainly almost shouted during the original as well. I suppose seeing it like that in the original it really didn't seem too different to just bring it right out to the open.

Concerning Meryl and Snake, honestly I guess it just seemed a lot more obvious what was going on in the original. Yeah I don't think I remember a kiss either, but the love interest was certainly almost shouted during the original as well. I suppose seeing it like that in the original it really didn't seem too different to just bring it right out to the open.
The difference is, in the original, Meryl definitely seemed interested, but Snake's interest was much less apparent. I got the impression that he knew that what he felt for Meryl was as much a result of surviving certain death as any real love or lust. In both games, Snake says "It's time to start living for someone else", but in Twin Snakes, there is some real affection for Meryl in his voice and manner that was totally absent in the same scene from the original.

In any case, it is implied in the second game that things didn't work out for the lovebirds anyway. :D

Ah, I see what you mean. Hmm, still I thought his feelings were rather apparent in the original...

You are right though, in the next game, something seems to have happened. Played the Confidential Legacy Snake Tale, if you have Substance that is? It's an alternate reality story that plays on their relationship lasting a bit longer. The last Snake Tale actually does an odd job of explaining the rest of the Snake Tale's existance, because it's an alternate reality story that's completely insane (evil Mei Ling and a giant russian soldier with godzilla spikes and laser eyes are a few things you'll find there, also "Raiden Tales" :D, and the fun of Solidus calling in an evil force he says has destroyed countless universes, Jack and Rose, I love when games can poke fun at themselves :D).

Now, if I aimed the weapon, I had to fire a shot. In MGS2, slowly releasing the fire button lets you conserve the shot. This made for several Alerts that I did not deserve and was very irritating.

Not at all. Simply get out of first person mode and de-equip the weapon. Snake will put it away with all bullets in the chamber.

Not at all. Simply get out of first person mode and de-equip the weapon. Snake will put it away with all bullets in the chamber.
I learned this just recently. But it's very unintuitive.

Eh, yes it is. If you tilt the stick a little, he crawls. If you tilt it full, he runs. That is analog controlling. Now, it's not GREAT analog controlling, it's not incremental. But it's still there.

Yeah, it's technically proportional (as I said while I do use analog often really it isn't accurate unless the stick/button actually IS analog and isn't digital-proportional... same for buttons... and I don't know which is which most of the time (except PC joysticks from the '90s which often said which they were -- and it was clear -- analog ones often have those trim pots to align the stick...)...

But about as "proportional" as a PC FPS with WASD for Run and Shift-WASD for Walk. :)

I get what you mean, Weltall, but were you playing MGS1 original version like that? I mean, there if you pulled out your weapon you couldn't just put it away without disarming either. Anway, remember that the Y button will lower your weapon when it's pulled out. Oh wait, first person mode. Yeah, you can't unequip with the equip button there since it does something else, but you can just let go of Z. Hmm, I never did try using Y in first person mode while aiming. Probably would work. Anyway, since I thought to do that early on, I got used to it quickly. You are exactly right though that the MGS2 (PS2 version, I have no idea how the XBox version does things, likey the same way as Twin Snakes) method is just plain better.

Eh, whatever. It was enough for me and it's no less than what was in MGS2, so I'm satisfied. I SAID I expect more from MGS3, what do you want my opinion to be?


That it should have been a better update?

Eh, yes it is. If you tilt the stick a little, he crawls. If you tilt it full, he runs. That is analog controlling. Now, it's not GREAT analog controlling, it's not incremental. But it's still there.


It's not true analog. All they did was make it so that slight tilt = walk and full tilt = walk + run button.

First off, the game is gorgeous. It is considerably better-looking than MGS2 was. This is most apparent in the character modeling. When I saw a tear in Meryl's eye, dirt and smudges on Snake's face, or the bruises and blood on Liquid's face, or how Snake had a visible layer of sweat on his body after the torture scene, I saw an improvement over MGS2. There is very little noticable aliasing, and the polys themselves are more detailed.



The models are a bit better than MGS2's but the environmental texture work is a little more plain than MGS2's, and the framerate isn't as smooth. Considering when MGS2 was developed and for what system, you'd think that they could get a lot more out of the GC engine for TS. The cinemas are indeed better thanks to Ryuhei Kitamura's direction, though.

What did irritate me, however, was how almost all of the characters with accents sound straight American now. Mei Ling lost her Korean accent, Naomi's British accent was totally missing


Mei Ling is supposed to be Korean? That's a Chinese name, not a Korean one.

It's not true analog. All they did was make it so that slight tilt = walk and full tilt = walk + run button.
And how does that make it untrue analog? It's not as fully-incremental as it should be, but there are many games that have this sort of analog capability. And, it's better than the original MGS, because in that, Snake ran, no matter how you tilted the stick.

The models are a bit better than MGS2's but the environmental texture work is a little more plain than MGS2's, and the framerate isn't as smooth. Considering when MGS2 was developed and for what system, you'd think that they could get a lot more out of the GC engine for TS. The cinemas are indeed better thanks to Ryuhei Kitamura's direction, though.
I didn't really think the environments were any more plain than MGS2. I thought the textures were at least identical (and in places like the Commander's Room and the Caves, they looked markedly better IMO). As for the framerate, I only noticed lagging at two parts: The very beginning, and in the Communications Tower that you have to fight past all the guards in.

Mei Ling is supposed to be Korean? That's a Chinese name, not a Korean one.
I know, but if memory serves, the original voice actress for Mei Ling was Korean.

And how does that make it untrue analog? It's not as fully-incremental as it should be, but there are many games that have this sort of analog capability. And, it's better than the original MGS, because in that, Snake ran, no matter how you tilted the stick.



Because it's cheating. They just put walk and walk+run button into one stick. Come on, the first game that showed everyone how to use an analog stick was Mario 64. We shouldn't have 3D games with only two movement speeds.

I didn't really think the environments were any more plain than MGS2. I thought the textures were at least identical (and in places like the Commander's Room and the Caves, they looked markedly better IMO). As for the framerate, I only noticed lagging at two parts: The very beginning, and in the Communications Tower that you have to fight past all the guards in.



TS' environments are still identical to the original games, where everything was very flat. Of course there's better texture work but it still looks like the environments were built out of legos (which they kind of were since the developers made all of the levels with legos first). MGS2 still has some pretty plain-looking environments, but they're more layered and the architecture is more complex. Things are less flat than TS. Still relatively flat, but not quite as much as TS. The framerate doesn't drop very often, but it does every once in a while, especially when you have to shoot more than three guards in first-person mode.

I know, but if memory serves, the original voice actress for Mei Ling was Korean.


The voice actors are still the same, they just dropped the accents.

That's true Weltall. They are using the same voice actors. The difference is they aren't faking an accent. Playing the original again just to compare, I'm surprised I didn't have a problem before. Those accents are SO obviously forced listening to them again. More than that, Mei Ling sounded almost southern at times anyway.

Yeah I'm also glad that they got rid of the accents.

Honestly, it wasn't a problem before, because at the time it was very good voice acting, and still is. It's just that honestly the Mei Ling thing didn't sound all that good, and her without it is better to me. Now to listen to it I much prefer the GCN one. I still have a problem with Grey Fox (The missing our "Grey Fox" :D, name that quote!), and a little with Naomi, but that's not the accent there, it's the lack of the emotion they had in the original.

Anyway, what sucks is how we Americans missed out on that disk that contained, reportedly, the NES version of the original Metal Gear game. I think that the report, which was copied by the rest of the news sites, got it wrong though. The ORIGINAL version of the original Metal Gear was on MSX (actually, the MSX2), not NES, and many consider it to be far superior (I've been reading reviews at various fan sites like this (http://www.thesnakesoup.com/) one) to the NES one. Also, the translation apparently sucked. Hideo apparently doesn't even consider the NES version to "count". For that matter, Snake's Revenge, the NES sequel, had a terrible story written by crack heads and had nothing to do with Hideo, who hated that attempt at a sequel so much he decided to make a REAL one exclusively for MSX, called Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. He refuses to acknowledge the NES sequel. With Hideo's own feelings about those two games rather widely known, I would be surprised for him to package the lesser NES version of the original MSX game in that promotional disk. I have a feeling that the MSX version was on there and the reporters, thinking they got a bad translation or something (likely not knowledgable enough about the game series) assumed they MEANT Famicom.

Anyway, I still bet that Konami plans on releasing an updated "substance" style release of Twin Snakes in the future. They have done it for all their major games as of late, on PS2 anyway. I imagine that like Substance it'll pack in about a million VR missions (specially tooled to the updated gameplay) some side stories, and maybe even the first two MSX Metal Gear games (or at least the very first one). Namely though, I'm hoping they either rerecord the speech of Meryl when she is shot (seriously, that's the only MAJOR beef I had with the script, but it's such a big one that in any remake I demand it be fixed), or just take the old one off the original PS version.

I know, I really wanted that disc. Having that and Metal Gear 2 would have been awesome.

I doubt we'll see a Substance-style update to Twin Snakes though. Silicon Knights doesn't have the time for something like that.

Silicon Knights made the main game yes, but now that all the hard stuff is out of the way, Konami could take over from there. I'm sure Konami was given the source code.

And yes, that WOULD have been awesome so long as my only SOMEWHAT educated blind guesswork is right, and it would have been the MSX originals rather than the NES ports (well, the second one wasn't a port, but rather a sequel Hideo hated once he found out about it).

But Konami has very little interest in GC development. The reason why SK made TS is because Konami didn't want to do it.

But didn't Konami oversee the whole project?

Well, I suppose it'll all depend on how well it sells then, as always. If Twin Snakes sells like mad and takes the number one or two spot for a while, I'm fairly confident Konami will decide to cash in by releasing some update.

They did, but SK did all of the programming, gameplay design, etc.

I hope TS sells really well, but since it's a remake and the marketing campaign has consisted of a so-so one-page ad and that's it... I don't think it'll do extremely well.

Being a remake wouldn't matter if the people want it and see it as a must have like MGS2. However, you're right. I haven't seen a single advertisement for this thing. I also avoid the mind suck that is magazines so I'd never see that one ad you mention. Where are the ads here? MGS2, even the XBox version, had a whole slew of ads (and MS actually claimed it (meaning Substance edition) was an exclusive in those ads for it's version, which was only technically true as it would be on PS2 a few months later). I imagine Japan has a number of advertisements for it, but NOA is a bunch of idiots sometimes. Why no ads? People aren't going to buy a game they don't even know exists. Knowing something exists is key to being able to buy it. In fact, that is THE primary purpose of the advertisement! (Actually convincing people they SHOULD buy it was added later.)

I was under the impression that Konami was the one that did the gameplay design, the drawing board stuff I mean, the "you should do this" (which is certainly one of the most important parts), and SK just did the grunt work of making it a reality, with no real creative control (except being able to toss in cameos of Eternal Darkness every now and then).

Regardless, I certainly hope SK learned a few things about excellent game design from this project. I have high hopes for whatever the next project of that team is after making this.

Well whatever the case is, SK did pretty much all of the work on the game.

And there definitely wasn't nearly as much anticipation for TS as there was for the Playstation Metal Gears. Well, not counting Substance.

Hmm, well I certainly was anticipating Twin Snakes... Oh well, at any rate it doesn't help that neither NOA or Konami stateside are bothering to advertise this thing.

*hums enya-ish song which totally rocks*

So was I, but the hype wasn't very big for a Metal Gear game.

And is it just me or does pretty much all of Enya's songs sound the exact same? Not that I'm not fond of her music...

Yeah they do, but this song isn't really by her. Similar style, but a much different... style... That was a complete paradox... Anyway, you know what I mean. Regardless, it's enya ISH and yet it also is completely awesome. I like it a lot better than the ending song of MGS2 anyway.

Oh, you're talking about an actual song? I thought you were just humming a song you made up.

You DID beat the game didn't you?

Or even the original? It was there too.

I liked MGS2's end theme better. I play it all the time. It's more my style.

Also, I kinda thought the actors were the same, because Mei Ling's actress was familiar. But why drop the accents? I missed them. Not having them took away from the characters, in my opinion.

Ah, well as I said to each their own. I explained my opinion a little further, but it's all I can say about that so no need to add more. Oh, I will add that actually Naomi's forced sounding accent makes sense, considering who she really is...

Yep OB1, that song was also in the first version. Don't think there was a single difference (maybe it's a little clearer or something but I wouldn't be able to tell on my full rich mono speaker). I do believe the scenes in the background with the wildlife of Alaska were different though. Not just the better compression method and faster reading allowing for the movies to be stored in full quality without the pixlization. I believe the scenes themselves were different. The most recent ending I saw was the original one, my attempt to compare, and forgetting the Twin Snakes one I'm not sure, for example, if the Twin Snakes scenes also had the polar bear dragging it's crotch across the snow.

Oh, let me make it clear I do like the MGS2 ending song. I just like the MGS1 song better. Just tastes I guess.

Here's an idea. I think that Konami should port the MSX games to GBA. I think that would work rather well so long as they did an excellent port job.

A remake of the first two games... oh yeah. Not just a simple port. Let us not only finally experience the original adventures in a non-butchered way, but one step better: With the best possible gameplay.

Hmm, there's an idea...

Yeah, they could remake them in full 3D with MGS2 style gameplay.

HOWEVER, if they did that I would DEMAND they also include the first two MSX2 games on the disk, to experience the original gameplay as well.

MGS3 is kind of a remake of the first game what with the jungle setting and everything. I'd rather resources be put into new Metal Gear experiences instead of remakes, although if someone other than Konami or SK did it I wouldn't mind. :)

Yes of course I beat the PS1 MGS, but I haven't finished TS. I don't remember that song.

MGS3 is kind of a remake of the first game what with the jungle setting and everything. I'd rather resources be put into new Metal Gear experiences instead of remakes, although if someone other than Konami or SK did it I wouldn't mind. :)

Yes of course I beat the PS1 MGS, but I haven't finished TS. I don't remember that song.
MGS3 has nothing to do with the first Metal Gear, other than the similar setting (which isn't even really that similar, as MG takes place in South Africa and MGS3 in Southeast Asia). MGS3 takes place a good thirty years prior to Outer Heaven, and it is widely speculated that what everyone thinks is 'Snake' is in actually Big Boss (who would look exactly like Snake would at that time, as the Snakes were clones of him).

Also, from what I gather, most of MGS3 takes place outdoors, whereas much of MG takes place inside compounds. And, of course, a truck that have started to move.

No kidding. That's why I said "kinda", because MGS3 is Kojima's way of going back to a setting closer to the original game's without it actually being a remake. A lot of people (myself included) missed the jungle setting of the first game, and it seems that Konami missed it as well. So what I meant was that a 3D remake of the first game would be kind of pointless since it would be a bit too similar to MGS3. Oh and I believe just 60% of MGS3 takes place outdoors. Possible more, I'm not sure. But there will be indoor areas.

I doubt it would be too similar. You're not outdoors as much in MG1.

Both MSX games had jungle areas, and if they were to be remade then it would probably be best to combine them into one game, so there'd be lots of jungle to go around.

Both MSX games had jungle areas, and if they were to be remade then it would probably be best to combine them into one game, so there'd be lots of jungle to go around. Madness. They are distinctly different games. Just because the settings are similar is no reason to phase them together. It'd be like mashing all of the Zelda games into one because they have the same setting.

Unless you mean combined into one package, with two seperate games. That'd be cool.

No I mean have it as one big game, with MG 2 taking place after MG 1 (whose end would be the middle point), and maybe taking out some things so that it isn't too big of a project. Naturally liberties would have to be taken with the storyline, but it's possible. It would be like remaking Metroid 1 and 2 into one game, with the "death" of Mother Brain being the middle point and cutting out some stuff so that it's not too big. Remaking both games seperately would be madness.

But Konami has very little interest in GC development. The reason why SK made TS is because Konami didn't want to do it.


... but I want a game like Goemon's Great Adventure on Cube, that game's great...

Yes, and another game like Mystical Ninja. The PS2 got a Goemon game, but it was never released here.

Was it good?

Getting GGA a few weeks ago reminded me how great that game was... I know Mystical Ninja 64 is different but I'd love to have that one too. I just haven't seen it... of course GGA isn't exactly common too. It's the first time I've seen it there I think... I'm lucky I got it!

Mystical Ninja is excellent. It's like Mario 64 meets OoT, not as good as those two but still very good. GGA is more pure fun though. MN will give you a longer, more immersive adventure. So think of GGA as Mario 3 and MN as OoT or something.

GGA = my favorite of my 3 sidescrollers on N64. I don't know if there are any other sidescrolling platformers on N64, but of those three I definitely like GGA best... excellent game. A bit short, you are right, but that doesn't make it any less fun... and getting all the entry passes will take up some time after you beat the final boss...

I love GGA, but i'm stuck on the haunted house level and now i'm all rusty and don't got the mad skillz i once had. plus my friend with the mad skillz...well, we don't talk much these days...