Cumberland needs to get sodomized

That way they know how it feels!


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=6&u=/nm/20040508/us_nm/iraq_abuse_town_dc

This is disgusting, I hate it when some bunch of fucks abuse the bible, For one the eye for an eye thing was a code of law , If you did murder then the killer is put to death not some innocent man soley because he was of the same nation or race.

I cannot believe people who call themselves christians would praise this wicked atrocious acts in iraq.There not christians there members of the church of Lucifer.

I can see where they're coming from on that; but they're wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

There really is no excuse for what happened at that prison, and I hope everyone responsible for it is punished and not just those soldiers in the photos. Not only is that a stupid and humiliating thing to do to any person, but it doesn't help the already pitiful opinion of the U.S. in the world.

I think the Soldiers involved in the abuse should be put before a Iraqi court,If you hand them to the Iraqis can you apease them and maybe even sprout a better relationship.Like they said sorry doesnt cut it anymore.



The 4 dead americans hanged on the street posts were evil too,Which begs the question why did you get involved in such a angry violent country at such a enormous cost with little profit.

That's disgusting. Not surprising, though... I mean, did anyone really think that given the attitudes you hear from Americans and American soldiers that they were being perfectly courteous? Or that the military was telling the whole truth? If you did you were pretty stupid.

That's disgusting. Not surprising, though... I mean, did anyone really think that given the attitudes you hear from Americans and American soldiers that they were being perfectly courteous?

Not many people, including and especially those in the US, condone what they have been doing to those prisoners. Trust me. What we have here is a typical case of the minority speaking for the majority.

I meant how common dislike for Arabs is these days, and how the Arabs return it which makes Americans dislike them more (and so it continues in a cycle)... especially soldiers... and when combined with abysmal training and everything else, you get Military Police who ignore the rules and intelligence officers pressing them to continue to do so...

A trained interogator said that you dont need to harm them to get them to talk, you simpily give them incentives.He said humiliating them by making them strip naked for the sole purpose of harming them violates the geneva convention, All those involved including those on top need to go to a international court for war crimes for breaking the Geneva convention.

I feel disgusted at what those people did to those Iraqi criminals.

However, at the same time, I find it even more disguasting that some Americans are more outraged at an extreme minority of our soldiers humiliating criminals, hardened killers, than they are when many, many more of those same criminals torture and murder innocent American civilians, mutilate, burn, and hang them from bridges.

The difference is that our people are supposed to be upholding the "law"... international law, Geneva Conventions... drawing a blank?

People are more upset because the U.S came to stop such practices yet they do it themselves even if it was by a small few.It hurts Bush position and it doesnt help the situation in iraq. I dont think those prisoners were the ones who murderd the 4 americans,If so hand me a broomstick .

No, regardless of what they did, it wouldn't make things right.

Ya know ABF, I know what you mean about anti-arab sentiment. It's really a sad state of affairs, but it's not THAT widespread. The fact that you think that alone proves there is a large group, indeed the dominant part of America, who isn't hating the arabs right now. Personally, I just have a problem with those who do these acts. I'd have to look into the religoin to decide if that really does encourage violence. At any rate, hating everyone from that nation certainly isn't a good solution. Fortunatly, most people here at TC I believe don't have such an attitude.

Anyway, I feel pretty disgusted about the whole thing. It's not more terrible than what some have done to us, but that's not justification for it. We're supposed to be Super Man as opposed to their Lex Luthor. At the same time, the media, while I can understand reporting this, crossed the line when they decided to post those images of those acts on TV. That was really low. Imagine being humiliated and then the news decides "the people have a right to gawk" at pictures of it. I mean, we got so upset over the videos of Iraqi embarresment, and rightly so. What our media did however seems worse. The media should have the good sense to not show these pictures for the same reason you don't show pictures of someone's rape just because you have the ability to. Oh wait, they DID show those pics! Honestly, what those people did in that prison was disgusting enough, but the media, that I don't hold responsible for that mind you, certainly was INCREDIBLY heartless and downright cruel in showing those pictures. I'm sure their defense would be something like "proving we didn't just make this up" or something like that. Honestly, whether you need it for proof is irrelevent. You don't cross that line just for the sake of good business. And beside the point, I'd think simply playing back a recording with officials who can verify it would be evidence enough for the general populace.

Sorry, I make it out that I'm more upset with the news media's actions (I know, the news stations don't talk with each other, nor are they all the same) than this particular thing. Don't get me wrong, I am much more upset about that, but the wrongness of that to me seems too obvious to really have to explain in words.

Ya know ABF, I know what you mean about anti-arab sentiment. It's really a sad state of affairs, but it's not THAT widespread. The fact that you think that alone proves there is a large group, indeed the dominant part of America, who isn't hating the arabs right now. Personally, I just have a problem with those who do these acts. I'd have to look into the religoin to decide if that really does encourage violence. At any rate, hating everyone from that nation certainly isn't a good solution. Fortunatly, most people here at TC I believe don't have such an attitude.

It isn't? Read that article. Or Weltall's post. Or what you read soldiers saying. Or plenty of other conservative writings. They hate the Arabs! Not just because of this, of course. American religious conservatives have detested Islam for a long time... envy because unlike them Islam actually HAS control over the political side in those nations, perhaps? :)

Now, the Arabs did raise American hate by their acts of hate, but we incited much of that hatred by our total failure of a post-war plan in Iraq! Combine that with latent anti-Americanism and you have a recipe for disaster that was well followed...

As for showing the pics, they absolutely had to. It would be utterly irresponsible to squelch such an important story. As Rumsfeld said (yes, me quoting him! wow...), you have to see them to really understand -- words do not do the job. And this IS a major, major scandal -- a long term record of severe bad practice in Iraqi jails, condoned by just about everyone who knew it seems. The worst action by far in the scandal was the military "asking" CBS to hold the photos and not show them for two weeks.

I hate Arabs now?

Well, several in particular. But not as a whole. I just think some of them are crazed, murderous thugs, and the rest of them are too weak-minded to do anything but follow them.

You actually think that? That's pretty harsh. Weltall doesn't hate arabs here, maybe the religion, but you have to understand, someone can be an arab without believing in the religion. Believing they HAVE to be muslim because they are arabs is just another bit of prejudice. I suppose I really can't say what the majority sentiment is, but I certainly don't hate someone for being arab, nor do I think Weltall thinks that.

Look, the whole thing made me sick LONG before I saw those pics. They were NOT needed! I can't believe you actually think that it was the right thing to embaress those poor people even more by showing those pics. You really WOULD support showing videos of someone's rape wouldn't you? It's the same logic, that you have to see it to get it. I mean, pictures aren't enough either, so should they just torture everyone who is watching so they can REALLY get an idea?

Look, I never said they should silence the story. I said they should have told it without humiliating the poor victims. Maybe you are saying this because, apparently, there's some huge republican campaign slandering the media about it. I wouldn't know, I just saw those pics on the news earlier and haven't really been paying attention to the whole thing. I still can't believe you would actually support showing that. People don't need to SEE it to get how terrible it is. Yeesh, lazy's masterful use of the english language around here should MORE than tell you that just describing it, maybe hiring a poet, would have been more than enough to get the point across that this was a horrible act done by those so called "Americans". You don't need to make people FEEL things, just provide them with the information. That's all news is supposed to be. Agendas got all mixed up in it. Thing is, I really think that the description alone would be more than enough. Seriously, how can you actually support humiliating people in a totally unneccesary way for a news story? Just tell the story as it is, and people will get it! Honestly, you need to seriously, seriously think about your opinion on this.

"I don't hate them, I just think they're murderous thugs!" ...

Um, do you not realize you proved my point there???

As for DJ. Um, before the pics no one really believed that the problem even existed! Or if they did they thought it was small. Hence the release.

Now, I would certainly say that the media exploits violence and over-emphasizes it, and loves to throw crime in people's faces when they should have better priorities. But this is a major international as well as American issue and we just can't do that... maybe they should have shown a bit more restraint, but there really isn't anything like seeing evidence. Oh, and we're just seeing the tame stuff -- it's censored, of course (nudity), and they aren't showing the worst ones... they probably shouldn't, if it's too extreme, but these days... there seems to be no extreme of violence they won't show... at least in part. But I disagree about words. Yes, they do a lot... but you can't just not release this because you dislike it! Now, if it was something like you suggest, or actually had someone dying on tape or something, of course it shouldn't be shown, but this isn't that.

"I don't hate them, I just think they're murderous thugs!" ...

Um, do you not realize you proved my point there???
Nice editing of my words.

It was a summary.

Which greatly altered the meaning of what I said.

I hate the murderers. And Araby has plenty of wholesale murderers.

I did not say they were all murderers, however. I simply said that most of those who don't actively try to murder everyone else is, at the least, either indifferent or quietly supportive of those that do. It seems like few Arabs really seem to want peace or stability. Their whole culture seems to center around death and destruction. It's too bad they don't seem to grasp that the destruction has hit them the hardest, and thats why the culture that was once the best and brightest mankind had to offer, once the philosophical, social, culural, and economic king of the world is now a pitiful shell whose culture is one of suicidal decay and the drive to bring everyone else down with them.

That's not to say every single Arab in the world is like this. But most of them really do not see a problem with themselves, they think everyone but themselves are to blame for their misfortunes. As a culture and as a race, they are immature, and doomed, if they don't get a clue and stop their collective suicidal tendencies. They may have more conviction about destroying us than we do about stopping them, but we are still stronger and we can grind them down eventually, at great cost to all.

The only way the Middle East violence will end is when Arabs realize they're the cause of pretty much all of it, and decide to grow up, make friends with us and the Jews, and start accepting coexistence as reality. Sadly, I just don't see this happening, and if they can't coexist with us, then they will doom themselves fighting to dominance they have no chance of obtaining.

It would help the U.S to stay out of the middle east as much as possible ,The Saudi relationship is one of the reasons for the angry, The Saudi royal family is a tyranical group ,The Saudi Prince blaimed the recent terrorist attacks on the Jews.They Viciously tortured and framed the Canadian Thompson for the death of a british deplomat which was the act of Jihadist alqeada groups but the Saudi goverment tried to pin it on other westerners, Thompson only crime was rushing to the scene on of the bomb blast to help the wounded being a Docter.The Saudi Getstopo picked him up put him a Torture chamber and beat him 24/7 for three years and then forced him to make a false confession to the crime on the threat of being horribly tortured further if he refused.He was then sentenced to death by beheading, But the British goverment steped in and promised there would be saunctions on Saudi Arabia which would hurt them with the U.S as well, So they caved in and let Thompson go free so they wouldnt lose their western allies.

Thompson is now sueing saudi arabia.They deny it ever happend but there is so many witneses and other western prisoners there who experienced it and Thompson has horrible wip lash marks on his body.

I was tempted to go the Saudi embassy and protest myself before he was freed.

Saudi Arabia is the enemy in my Books, They have no regard for human rights just like Saddam Hussein.

Weltall, you're just digging the hole deeper by "explaining" how you didn't mean what I said. I said people like you hate them. That is obviously true. And they hate us back. Why? Well, given the circumstances, it's understandable...

First, try to understand that all Moslems aren't Arabs. This is important because it's the Arabs who hate us more. Oh, other Moslems hate us too, but the Arabs hate us the most. Why? Palestine, of course. Palestinians are Arabs. Thus Persians in Iran don't care quite as much about that issue.

Now... what I would say about most of the Arab world is that in many ways it has barely changed in centuries. Religion is the centerpoint of life. Religious figures have massive real-world power. That used to be true in Europe, but it declined over time until the mid 1800s when the Pope finally lost almost all his terrestrial power. But there religion and religious leaders lead their people in many ways... closer to Europe centuries ago. Many of their beliefs are also archaic -- such as their views on women. Now, some have reformed more, but the hardliners like in Saudi Arabia aren't giving in much...

Oh, and also, most of them have autocratic governments. Only a couple have any kind of elected bodies. Turkey of course is the big exception, thanks almost entirely to Kemal Ataturk after WWI, but the rest... it really is pretty bad. Like in Saudi Arabia, the government can do just about anything -- no 'rights' for the citizens, essentially. And yes, such families do live in extreme luxury while many of their people are poor. However, they do build improvements in their nations, some more than others -- it's not as one-dimensional as you suggest. It's the same politically. Saudi Arabia may be going nowhere fast, but Qatar and Kuwait, especially Qatar, have made progress.

So, the Arabs on the street see a few things. They see America with its immense military power. They see America coming in to their region and occupying their lands. They see the inevitable bad things that happen after that. They see Palestine, where the US is (rightly) seen as by far the biggest supporter of Israel -- such as how the US constantly vetoes (as sometimes the only one other than Israel opposed) bills in the UN that condemn Israel... and how we give them lots of money... etc. They see these things, and in support of the Palestinians hate us as well as the Israelis. And when we go into the Middle East and blunder around, it gets messy. Even when there aren't major scandals (excepting how we allowed Sadaam to kill the Kurds), like the first Gulf War, it causes major problems -- witness how Bin Laden took the first US invasion of Iraq. He, and many others, were deeply offended by the US having so many troops on the most holy of Muslim soil (that is, Saudi Arabia). This became a major issue for them... us "defiling" their lands. Now, the Arabs on the street don't immediately agree. But when they hear so much about how bad we are and how many bad things we are doing and precious little evidence to deny that (from our actions especially), they start to believe... and then something like THIS happens. The Iraqis reacted to our liberating them with, in the majority, cautious optimism. They hated Sadaam. Now, some caused chaos, but the majority was in support. But as the occupation grew longer, and our actions caused more and more problems, and they saw more dead Iraqis on Arab satellite TV, their anger, latently there all along, rose, of course. How people like you expect them to NOT hate us after we act as we have in Iraq is utterly beyond my comprehension, that's for sure.

Its Muslims! Not moslems!

Islam different groups are Arabs,persians,medes (afghanistan),Africans,Then there is indonesia.

ASM giving spelling lessons ... um...

Its Muslims! Not moslems!

Islam different groups are Arabs,persians,medes (afghanistan),Africans,Then there is indonesia.

<B>It's</B> Muslims! Not moslems.
Smart ass :p