View Thread : nintendo DS revealed!


alien space marine
http://cube.gamespy.com/articles/513/513341p1.html

geoboy
Well it doesn't have the motion sensing some of us were hoping for or predicting, but I must say, the DS is getting me excited for some reason. Sure, it's only a little more powerful than the N64, but the DS is mainly everything we loved about the GBA plus improvements. I like Nintendo's approach to competing with the PSP - Keep it simple. It won't have the flashiest graphics in comparison, and it won't be an iPod killer, but it will be friggin' AWESOME when it comes to playing some cool new portable games. :D

OB1
Keep it simple? It's got two screens and a stylus! :lol:

geoboy
That's a lot more simple than what Sony is trying to do IMO.

Great Rumbler
Forget the PSP, it's the DS, baby!

OB1
In terms of their game functions, the DS is far more complex than the PSP.

Great Rumbler
Because Nintendo is cool and Sony is not.

A Black Falcon
Not in the eyes of the majority of the public...

alien space marine
I may get a Gameboy advance sp, For the sake of having nintendo gear in my house.

Great Rumbler
I'll get either the DS and the PSP, but likely not both.

OB1
I'll get DS at launch, and the PSP eventually. Gotta have my GT4 and Metal Gear on the go. :)

A Black Falcon
I might eventually get a DS... don't know, depends on if I can afford it. Given how many games there still are for the GBA, I doubt it'll be soon...

OB1
Here are some nice pics from the show, courtesy of gcadvanced.com:


http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/NintendoDSb.jpg

Nice, I hope the actual game boxes look like those. No more crappy cardboard display boxes!

http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/DSTop.jpg

I'm certainly not going to be able to fit that into my pocket. :)

http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/DSFloor.jpg

http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/DSBox.jpg

Dark Jaguar
Indeed, we all saw it as a VB at first, but that's Nintendo's way. Release JUST enough information about something to make us think it sucks because we don't know anything that would make us think otherwise, then BLAST us with about a million awesomenesses that change our mind instantly and against our will. Those psychological rapists are geniuses!

I see now exactly why it actually had to be two screens. They had to put the touch screen down low where our fingers could easily reach it. They also had to put the view screen high and totally intended on keeping the folding design. It all makes sense now, not gimicky at all but actually the only good engineering solution for the problem.

OB1
Yup.

Great Rumbler
Those little DS cartridges look cool.

OB1
Indeed.

Dark Jaguar
Ya know, I think the carts should actually just BE SD cards. That'd mean games would be able to use pictures and sounds you transfered to it from your PC. Imagine a future Mario Paint with some sort of 3D animation studio using textures you find online!

big guy
kinda like mario artist but with the ability to download textures intstead of just using GB camera shots?

Great Rumbler
The DS cartridges look kind of like SD cards, but I haven't heard anything about that.

OB1
Great sig, ASM. :D

Great Rumbler
Darunia won't like it. :)

big guy
darunia's a fascist

A Black Falcon
Uh, DJ, what would be the point of them being SD cards? Given that those are the games, it's not like you could usually swap them out or something... and piracy issues would make them never want to have the things on an open media system!

OB1
Yeah that's a good point.

alien space marine
PSP so far has the best games.

EdenMaster
That looks almost exactly like one of the dual-screen Game & Watch units. It's a bit large, but it looks cool and I can't wait to get one of my own!

Dark Jaguar
Exactly Big Guy! And ABF, if you had read my ENTIRE post, which was NOT very long, you would SEE exactly what the point would be! I mean, big guy gets it, so why not you?

Besides, they could use some special encription. I honestly will KILL EVERYONE I KNOW THAT PIRATES SOFTWARE PERSONALLY WITH MY BARE HANDS if I find out they won't do that AMAZING THING THAT COULD REALLY EXPAND MY GAMEPLAY just because of frkcin' THIEFS!

Edenmaster, never saw one of the game & watch units that wasn't actually a wrist watch myself, but looking it up, yeah it does look like that. It's not that large, it's basically putting the system back to GBA size again. Anyway, it's still neato. The PSP has some interesting games, but honestly, most of the games I'm interested in are on the DS. I guess it's all due to my developing designer's view point. That pac-pix game just sounds so delicious!

A Black Falcon
Um, DJ, my post refuses ANY reason that they'd make the cards SD cards.

And anyway, I just don't see much point... very few games would use it. It just doesn't seem like something that would add much to the thing and the negatives are greater.

Like, how would it work? A portion of the game card would be writable for stuff from a PC? It sounds confusing and as I said, that's a GAPING security hole that would be next to impossible to fully deal with. Gamecube piracy only became possible once PSO hooked it up to the internet...

Oh, and I have a Game & Watch and yeah, it isn't that big. Thinner than a GBA and probably of a similar size. This is bigger than that, and quite a bit thicker... though I don't really know how this compares to a GBA. I want to see a comparison image. :)

And yes, the DS has the best games. :)

alien space marine
Which is cooler looking?

Great Rumbler
The DS's dual-screens automatically render it the coolest looking and, yes, it does have the best games.

PSP = Teh suck.

OB1
GT4, Wipeout, and Metal Gear do not = Teh suck. :)

A Black Falcon
... I want Wipeout...

alien space marine
PSP can be a MP3 player,Thats doesnt = teh suck.

Wow two screens! "Virtual boy"! Cough! cough!

Great Rumbler
GT4, Wipeout, and Metal Gear do not

I didn't say that they did...well I'm not so sure about that Metal Gear game.

Wow two screens! "Virtual boy"! Cough! cough!

Umm....No.

PSP can be a MP3 player,Thats doesnt = teh suck.

PSP = Teh suck. Deal with it.

OB1
The DS looks great, but you can't say that the PSP looks teh suck... unless you are kidding... which I think you are...

Great Rumbler
I'm saying it because I don't like Sony...which in effect means, yes, I am kidding.

OB1
They make some great games. ICO, Gran Turismo, Mark of Kri... and... and that's it.

big guy
dj, i think it would make more sense to maybe have a mario artist game where the cartridge was specially designed to have sd cards hook up to it for importing textures and/or saving your wonderful artistic creations for the reason other members stated. though i do agree that it would be cool to be able to take images from my computer and put them into a mario artist style thing...and really the DS is the perfect sytem to make a mario artist game for because you could draw on the bottom screen. RIGHT ON IT! that's f'n wild.

Great Rumbler
They make some great games. ICO, Gran Turismo, Mark of Kri... and... and that's it.

Yeah, they don't make that many good ones. But they have done pretty good lately.

That and the fact that I'm still a Nintendo fanboy at heart. :)

OB1
The good ones they've made have been superb though. ICO is probably my favorite current-gen game after Metroid Prime.

A Black Falcon
Or how about accessing the Gamecube's SD card adaptor through the inevitable GC-to-DS connector? That actually could work... unlike making the game cards themselves SD cards.

Great Rumbler
The good ones they've made have been superb though. ICO is probably my favorite current-gen game after Metroid Prime.

Okay, so I'm supposed to move this box, right? *hears screams in the distance* Alright, I'll be there in a second! So...now I'm supposed to push this lever and ride on the cart...*more screams* I said hold on!! Wow, this cart is fast! *girl is drug into dark pit by monsters* Oh that is just great! You just couldn't run fast enough to get away from the stupid monsters that are so slow they probably couldn't even catch a sick old lady! Well that's just great! *Game Over* I didn't save my game either!!!

OB1
:erm:

Wha?

Did you just diss ICO?

-10,000 cool points for GR.

*tsk tsk tsk*

And I had such high hopes for you...

N_A
You know, I realize everyone is excited about the DS, and I would like to as well, but for some reason, theres a nagging issue about the game media. The SD card technology if you are aware is quite small, and quite expensive. You're looking at an SD card that weighs in 256 MB of data which can range up to $50. The FlashROM tech is fast, BUT it might end up being an unfortunate Achilles Heel for the DS.

Look at the PSP, Sony is using the minidisk system, and that gives it a disk size thats even bigger than the Gamecube's disk. Nintendo might have used the same reasoning in the past that the portable games of this generation might not be able to use all of that space and the system might not have that power. This might be true for portables, but it might be proven wrong given time and creativity. We have seen that the N64 reasoning was that CDs might not have been fully exploitable in that generation. That was however, proved completely wrong.

Expensive or not, that doesn't seem to be an issue for most buyers when buying consoles. Its another few months of savings vs. buying a system they might feel is inferior. Sony is going to be weighing on its already superior fanbase to carry over to its PSP market. Yet again, I'm afraid this is bad for Nintendo because up until now, casual gamers have had no other choice than Gameboy, and given the opportunity, the mast majority of them would likely associate the PSP with a superior gameplay experience. In addition to that, preferences and console/company loyalties will play a big role despite any of the unrealistic arguments that say they don't... speaking on an economic understanding that people do have limited disposable income combined with personal preferences.

Unfortunately, I can't help but feel this is a grave mistake for Nintendo to use ROM technology yet once again and might end up just handing the handheld market over to Sony on that aspect.

A Black Falcon
256MB is $50? But this is a 1Gb card, or like ~120MB... cheaper I'm sure. And is the UMD so cheap as you suggest? I doubt it... aren't PSP games supposed to retail for like $35-40? More than GBC games! I'd bet that DS games will be the same at most, and likely GBA-level.

N_A
I'm pretty sure the Sony minidisk is cheaper, and its definitely cheaper per megabyte give its storage size already. If the DS and PSP games sell for the same price, well, that just means the DS is shitted out of gamesize for the same price. Thats what... a $35 game with 120 MB size vs a $35 game of 1.8 gig size ?

The bottom line is still the same. Its a question of storage, and I don't think 120 MB cards will do the job enough to compete with the PSP at all. Its something thats giving me alot of dismay over the system. I mean like it has a lot of great stuff, but storage is the Achilles Heel and I can't help but feel its PSX vs. N64 all over again, and whats worst is that this was Nintendo's last area of dominance.

Needless to say, the entrace of the PSP into the handheld market alone is bad news because instead of Nintendo having 95%+ market share, now even if they still dominate, they'll loose money because market share will mostly likely drop, and it will be worst if this does indeed prove to be the Achilles Heel.

A Black Falcon
Nintendo isn't trying to compete in storage space! You might as well complain just as bitterly that the PSP is PS2 power while DS is N64. Sure, it's a generation back. But it was designed that way, because the touchscreen is the primary feature, not modern-gen power. Why is that so hard to understand?

Oh, and that 'N64' thing is part of the answer to your question. Yes, PSX games often did go hundreds of megs. But they are simply not as large as current games. Same here, due to the technology used. So the thing just does not NEED as large a media size.

N_A
Whether or not Nintendo is consciously competing over disk space is a moot point because whether or not it decide to compete over that factor doesn't exempt it from the fact that there is competition on ALL FACTORS. It is like saying that Gamecube was not competing over the PS2 and Xbox over issues of DVD player and internet gameplay as a console, yet Nintendo's mistake of stonewalling that and pretending that its not going to compete over that factor. Unfortunately, the reality is that competition is over ALL FACTORS whether or not you choose to participate consciously. Quite obviously, even if Nintendo tried to make the GC a pure game console, the reality is that people didn't care, in terms of games, Nintendo still didn't deliver successfully because the PS2 and Xbox still had more games for systems that weren't pure game consoles. Not to mention for being a pure game console, Nintendo failed in not being creative enough to design a good business model around an Internet gaming system, of which they consistently blame on their lack of ability to brainstorm a successful business model for it.

In effect, the Gamecube is perceived in the market to be less of a game console than other consoles which weren't designed to be pure consoles.

Likewise, the DS is going down the same path. Its a handheld, and thats what it is. Its got great features with the double touch screen and stylus, chat, and various possibilities. The question is, will this in the end be hindered by the fact that it won't have the space to make top notch games to make it handheld the market will like ? Or will developers figure they would simply prefer to just use the PSP and make big projects and bring the handheld market to the level of literally "portable consoles" in gaming size, scope, and graphics.

Its like this, just because some fundamentalist Christians believe the Sun revolves around the Earth doesn't mean that it does that because they ignore modern science. Nintendo can't decide it wants to ignore the PSP's tech and storage level as competing factors just because it wants to create something different. To be competitive, it needs to be better than the PSP in all factors. As said, the storage is just one of them, and again, it could be a minor looking, yet Achilles Heel kind of deal.

Now can you understand that aspect of business competition ?

And your 2nd statement only made half sense, because its implicitly half contradictory. You say that the DS is N64 tech and doesn't require the space., while the PSP of PS2 tech requires the 1.8 gig, yet the PSX used a couple hundred megs... you do realize the PSX was inferior technology to the N64 ?

So whats your point ? Based on your reasoning, the N64 should have used even larger disk space, and likewise the DS should be the same.

A Black Falcon
120. With compression, you could fit a CD worth on there. Okay, it's smaller. It's not a system-killing flaw. It was price, not size, that killed the N64, I'd say... yes, size had an impact, but I think price was the bigger problem. And here the price is not nearly that much of an issue.

Oh, and suggesting that developers need more space to make better games is stupid. They have twice as much as they ever had on the nearly equal N64, after all... and graphically the DS is obviously not competing with the PSP. That's a fact. We've known that since the beginning. And as I've said many times, I just don't care much. N64 graphics are good. Sure, PSP will look better and many people will buy it because of that. And if the DS had nothing else, it'd be a tough sell. But it does, and that 'else' will attract people. This is on a much different level than the NGC! That one didn't have anything that distinguished it, really, in the positive side. This has that strongly. What more could you need?

Sure, I think that Nintendo's statements that the DS isn't competing with the PSP to be about as sensible as their statements that the GC didn't compete with the PSP. They clearly are in many ways. But unlike the GC Nintendo has a position of strength in this industry and has innovation on its side. Sony's graphics and popularity will draw people, but I'd put low priority on the size of the cards. For what the DS is, it's more than enough.

Oh, and the PSX was in some ways inferior to the N64, sure. I'd expect that from a system a year older! But your point is? Oh, and it did have some advantages -- like it could push more polys, actually... Anyway, PSX games got big mostly through low compression, voice, CD music, and video. So the DS will have highly compressed video, lower quality sound, and high compression. With those it should be able to do just about anything anyone could want it to, you know. I just don't get why you see this as such a big problem...

Heck, even some GBA games have good amounts of voice and those things are on 16 or maybe 32MB carts!

And of course your statement of the PSP's superiority ignores the DS's truly innovative qualitites. Nintendo's focus on innovation tires when that innovation doesn't seem to truly exist, or to not be very benificial (like connectivity), but when they pull something like this I see why they try to do that...

Oh, and most people don't really care about how many megs the game takes up, they care about things like how it looks, how it plays, how much it costs... and what the selection is.

Oh yeah, and Nintendo seems serious in keeping the GBA around until the next Game Boy comes out. Which the DS, of course, is not. Despite its cart slot.

N_A
Not competing graphically with the PSP in the sense that it has already lost that aspect of the competition, not that it is not a factor into who retains dominance, and dominance of the handheld market is still Nintendo's only existing springboard with which to provide financial assets to regain console market dominance. Hence, as Mr. Yamauchi said, if Nintendo looses with the DS, Nintendo is out of the scene.

I continue to see it as a big problem because Sony can exploit the same marketing and 3rd party strategy that it did with the PSX against the N64. You and I know very well that good games don't require FMV and all those snazzy graphics. However, thats not what Sony's market dominance is about. Sony's market dominance has been about graphics, fanservice, and putting down other consoles by ridiculing them and paying off other companies to slander Nintendo as kiddy and work with Sony exclusively. Sony's market dominance is not about promoting innovative gameplay and neither is its following very interested in innovative gameplay either, otherwise they wouldn't be buying Sony products.

Because the PSP is graphic intensive, Sony can exploit the fact that its got more space in its campaign against Nintendo. What is different about the handheld market is that the power of handhelds tends to be lower, and you just don't get the same experience as you do with a console. Simply said, while Nintendo has innovative stuff on the DS, the Sony can use its existing popularity and momentum to grab the intiative off of Nintendo's hands and redefine the handheld console market as literally a current generation PORTABLE CONSOLE MARKET - in otherwords, the PSP is now a portable PS2, and in contrast, the DS is not a portable GC, its just an N64, despite the extra screen. On intitial evaluation by the average console gamer (who today is quite obviously a PS2 gamer) its quirky and its not down to earth and it doesn't have what they've been impressed with on the PS2, which are seemingly non-kiddy games, good looking up to date graphics, movies, and all the franchises of the PS2, etc. The average console gamer who until now has only been offered the GBA or refused to even get into the console market because it just wasn't impressive enough, have all now been offered something they've been looking for, a real full on console, thats portable. Sony will definitely push this aspect of the PSP with developers and setting the tone of the handheld market. The DS, because of its technology, while in the same category of competition with the PSP, cannot directly compete against it given the new market setting and the evolution of the target audience.

While the DS is initially impressive and over the top with innovation compared to the PSP, all Sony has to do once it enters the market, is push the market in a different direction of down to earth, storage space and technology intensive gaming and the DS won't be able to match that. If you ask me, what Sony is doing is more immediately appealing, and is a simple plan that will sell.

What Nintendo really needs in this time might not be an experiment such as the DS. What they need is a more down to earth, practical solution, which is a next generation Gameboy which can do what the Gamecube does and more to compete directly with and defeat the PSP - not something thats completely off in lala land. Unfortunately, unless Nintendo has that secretly in the works, they might just loose the handheld market initiave to the PSP if they release the next Gameboy later than the PSP does.

As much as Nintendo is a traditional art of war corporation, they're forgetting one of many things Sun Tzu emphasized... simple plans work, complex ones backfire.

alien space marine
What will happen to nintendo if they lose the Portable market they have dominated for more then a decade.

Nintendo could still fight with the GBA, It has a pretty large libary of games and thats what there gonna need to fight the PSP,Sure the GBA is inferior so was the Psx vs the n64.

Its like this, just because some fundamentalist Christians believe the Sun revolves around the Earth doesn't mean that it does that because they ignore modern science.

I find that hard to believe, But it has absolutely nothing to do with the bible ,this belief is all Church Jargen made by the Pope.

Great Rumbler
Actually it was lack of games that killed the N64, it had virtually nothing for the first YEAR besides Mario 64.

Wha?

Did you just diss ICO?

-10,000 cool points for GR.

*tsk tsk tsk*

And I had such high hopes for you...

Actually I was making the girl's inability to run away from the stupid shadow things [and my frustration of it] into a joke. ICO's a cool game!!

OB1
I know, I know, I too laughed at PA's strip. But they voted it as one of best games of the year, or the best, I forgot.

*returns cool points to GR... for now*

Great Rumbler
*returns cool points to GR... for now*

That's right!

N_A
Lack of games was one of the N64's killing points, but that lack of games was contributed to the fact that developers were simply lured over to the PSX for reasons that have been discussed above.

As I am trying to say, Sony's similar strategy can applied and exploited against the DS, in the end slandering the system as a gimmick thats just a child's toy that can't handle the games that mainstream gamers want. In reality it might not be, just like the N64 might have been a great system with games that were a whole step above anything on the PSX except on terms of FMV, but it can still be perceived and effectively destroyed by the same kind of methods discussed.

Several conditions do not bode well for this system:
- its not down to earth, not in touch with the average gamer
- its not capable of direct competition with the PSP
- its image can be exploited as gimmicky, incapable of a real game experience, whether or not that is a reality
- Sony will most definite pull much power from spill over userbase from its console, something Nintendo does not have in comparison
- a good deal of Gameboy users will switch over to the PSP since they were on the average, exclusively Sony console fans - given the choice now, they will choose Sony. The PSP's simple entrance invariably means loss of marketshare for Nintendo.
- games might be complex in one fashion on the DS with its screen features, but the PSP will have its own complexities with higher tech power and storage space

And developers will buy into that kind of stuff because they still do. Once the developers prefer a system its kind of over for the other ones. Then it spirals because everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

Alien Space Marine, in backwards areas of the US and the rest of the world where people don't get any science or science is ignored due to Judeo-Christian cultural reasons, there are unbelievably, some people who believe the Sun revolves around the earth still.

alien space marine
Alien Space Marine, in backwards areas of the US and the rest of the world where people don't get any science or science is ignored due to Judeo-Christian cultural reasons, there are unbelievably, some people who believe the Sun revolves around the earth still.

I heard some Mormons believe that the Dinosaurs are a hoax or some kind of conspiracy.

The churches have opend up to science , I know the Vatican owns a telescope observatory, Some Priests are also part time astrophysicists.
I think Modern science glorifies God and the Bible doesnt say anything about how the Sun and the earth and solar system works,But it was the first to say the earth was Round in the book of Isiah. I think these fundementalist are holding on too old middle aged traditions that are not truly Christian.

Id call it Middle aged theology.

N_A
(a rather off topic, but modern science and Christian theology have fundamentally incompatible philosophy - ie the way of thinking is oppositional. Whereas science is strictly based on observation of the material world to derive truth of how the world works, Christian theology is by and large based on faith with already given supernatural answers to how the world works. Quite the opposite on all fields. Some scientists may believe in God, but science itself does not, because he cannot be observed, and the events that transpired in the Bible are in direct contradiction to history, archeology, biology, physics, astronomy, etc. Sociologically speaking, for this reason, the scientific revolution has gradually, surely, but slowly displacing Christianity in the developed western world. Unfortunately, it has some drawbacks. Morality has been tightly tied with Christianity in the west. With that being displaced by cold science, morality has no doubt slipped in the recent centuries in the west - especially since there is no secular or philosophical moral code as there is in the East, say Buddhism or Confucianism for example. Anyways, as to why the Sun is said to revolve around the Earth, its because the Church has always interpreted that when God held the Sun for some hours in the Bible for a battle to be swayed. Do remember that the Church punished Galeleo and many others for believing this to be false. This is in a time period where most other advanced cultures had already figured it out otherwise. What you say is true, some churches "open up to science." However, you must be aware that this is an evolution of changing intepretations of a Bible that is already vague on almost everything like Nostradomus. Fundamentalists are a different group of people who do not believe in evolving the intepretations. What is said is said, and said quite literally to them. They stick to what is traditionally the original interpretations, in otherwords, what the writers of the Bible meant the context of their teachings to be when they actually wrote them and passed on those beliefs in successive generations. So they believe they are in sync with what God really meant because of that. Again, what you view them to be incorrect as not truly Christian, to them you are the same. Its an arbitrary evaluation for both parties. Therefore, you must pardon the scientist comment in me, that this is pretty ridiculous, and allow me to paraphrase Einstein in his comment that Buddhism is the only religion he's seen that is compatible with science and fulfills the moral and spiritual gap that modern science has created in society.)

alien space marine
If God made the Sun stand still , Then maybe it was the earth that was kept still and in that effect the Sun never moved in the sky. I think the Bible can not be taken literaly , for instance in Revelations they say Stars will fall from the sky to the earth in armegedon, But if someone had taken it literaly then they would think a literal star will fall from the sky, But really what the Apostle John was writing was solestrial bodies like meteorites, Ancient people believed that comets and meteorites were the stars scene in the sky falling down to earth, So we have to interperupt what their describing knowing well of there limited knowledge of the universe at the time.

Atleast the church finally apologized to Galeleo in 1980 for what their predecessors had done in the middle ages. The Church made up its own doctrine of the universe which was total shit that was outside the bible teachings nothing that Galeleo said contradicted the bible and it was not anti christian, The Church clergy was corrupt and still is.

Great Rumbler
Take your religious debate elsewhere!!!

Let's take a look at things here:

PSP:
-Techincal power [always a plus for the average gamers]
-Large media
-MP3 player

DS:
-Dual screens [whether that's a plus or minus to the average consumer...]
-Wifi internet gaming [a HUGE plus for the DS]
-Voice/text communication
-Low sticker price [remeber these are handhelds not consoles, price is going to be a much bigger factor I think]
-Long battery life

As you can see both have their advantages, it just depends on what people are looking for. I have no doubt that the PSP is going to sell, but I think you give it a bit too much credit.

Dark Jaguar
Here's my worry about the media. Skipping and disk damage. Sony seems to have solved the disk scratching issues with the disk caddy (bringing back memories of the earliest CD-ROMs). However, I'm still very concerned about the fact that a portable system is going to be jostled and realigned a LOT during play. Considering how faulty every single disk drive that has claimed to be capable of standing vertically has been in the past (what with gravity and all), I worry about how quickly the laser could misalign itself with all the off-angles people could be holding this in. Perhaps they have found a way to combat the whole issue; maybe the caddies will be holding the disk firmly enough in place so that gravity won't misalign it when held at an off-angle. I'll have to see it for myself to believe it though. Until then, I say carts may just be the better solution for portable gaming. Might be wrong, that's just what my experience has told me.

MP3 playback is something likely to be added later anyway. The GBA already has an MP3 player add-on. It IS an add-on though. Still, I really don't think many people seem to care about that. That feature certainly didn't seem to help the N-Gage, but then again that system had not a single exclusive game, and still doesn't I think, so I don't think even a cure for cancer built into it would have saved it.

Technical power, this could be a real sticking point, COULD be anyway. Depends on a few things. Certainly, if the DS is powerful enough over the N64, the programmers could really take enough advantage of the hardware that one might not notice, at first, until PSP developers take full advantage of that. Anyway, I think price is the thing. I haven't heard the set price of the PSP yet, but if it's more expensive than the DS, then I suspect the offset price would make up for it in the eyes of the commoner. Eh, I dunno...

Anyway, the innovative stuff certainly has my interest more than anything.

As for the medium, well it's likely not actually an SD card simply due to price I imagine. I just wasn't aware how different the format was. If it was JUST shape and memory storage format, and nothing technically different as far as hardware features, I'd still think using actual SD cards would be the better solution. As for your statements ABF, well first off, all you said was "why would they do that?", not "they wouldn't do that BECAUSE", and when it's JUST a question, even next to something else that's a problem, it basically just tells me you didn't even bother reading my reason why they would. It's not an all consuming reason to do so, but it is A reason.

Anyway, the format would be easy enough, IF IT WASN'T FOR STUPID SOFTWARE THIEFS. Otherwise, it would have to be some nonaccessible file. Ugh, honestly it's just sickening about this, and you claim it doesn't hurt anyone when pirates do that. Well, it hurt ME PERSONALLY. Besides that, one could take those cards and just download the data from kiosks in stores to them for cheaper than buying a brand new card with the game on it. It would be just like the olden days of the floppy disks and the Famicom Disk System add-on. I still think it would be cool if they did that, but oh well. Honestly, I am not Nintendo's accountant, I just want to have fun, so I don't care about their own personal risk in this.

No matter, as of now, it's still good enough that I want it.

Smoke-X
I think DS can compete for now but Nintendo better hurry up with GBA2 with GameCube level graphics.

A Black Falcon
Nintendo would have trouble winning if they just did equal consoles. Look at the Cube and the PS2. They think that they need to innovate to get an edge... and I can't say that they're really wrong. I think that the DS is by far a better move for Nintendo at this point than just a console that tries to match the PSP. That'd be a tough battle to win, even with the GB name, while this... they have a better chance, I think. People will be interested by the uniqueness and that will draw customers. Supposedly the DS has gone over very well with the people at E3, for instance.

"The DS is off in lala land"? You seriously think that? After this announcement, you insult it like that? With thinking like that no wonder you seemingly think the PSP will crush it! But most people would disagree, I'd say...


Several conditions do not bode well for this system:
- its not down to earth, not in touch with the average gamer

And the MORE EXPENSIVE PSP will be? The same PSP that seems to be less popular than the DS at E3? Umm... what in the world does this mean?

- its not capable of direct competition with the PSP

You underestimate the power of uniqueness that is well used (aka as opposed to connectivity or something like that).

- its image can be exploited as gimmicky, incapable of a real game experience, whether or not that is a reality

They could try, but who says that they'd succeed?

- Sony will most definite pull much power from spill over userbase from its console, something Nintendo does not have in comparison

True. Which is probably the biggest reason that the PSP will do well.

- a good deal of Gameboy users will switch over to the PSP since they were on the average, exclusively Sony console fans - given the choice now, they will choose Sony. The PSP's simple entrance invariably means loss of marketshare for Nintendo.

This I doubt. Oh, some will, but a large number? That depends on games. First, many will continue to get some GBA games because so many great ones are still coming out. And second, the DS is aiming closer to the market the PSP is than the main GBA market, which is younger. And they don't expect everyone with a GBA to go out and get one, or plan to stop making GBA games -- everyone seems to be forgetting that "third pillar" stuff. Oh, sure, it sounds strange, but I really do think that they mean to support all three at once...

As for the inevitable 'GBA doesn't compare to PSP', of course not. But it has a HUGE market and is a great platform for some kinds of games, and will continue to do well on those strengths for some time.

- games might be complex in one fashion on the DS with its screen features, but the PSP will have its own complexities with higher tech power and storage space

I usually disagree, but here Nintendo is right. You really can't compare the two. Oh, you can in a marketing standpoint, because in many ways they are aiming at similar markets, but games-wise? A Nintendo said, any game type done on PSP can be done on DS. That is not true in reverse.


And developers will buy into that kind of stuff because they still do. Once the developers prefer a system its kind of over for the other ones. Then it spirals because everyone jumps on the bandwagon.


The rumors I've heard say that developers like the DS because of its uniqueness...

And yes, price, battery life, and Wi-Fi are all more things the GBA has going for it. I believe the PSP will have wireless multiplayer like the DS, but it won't have internet as far as I know... N_A, if you just look past the graphics and space there are many things the DS does that make it a perfectly good competitor. And I thought I was pessimistic...

A Black Falcon
Anyway, the format would be easy enough, IF IT WASN'T FOR STUPID SOFTWARE THIEFS. Otherwise, it would have to be some nonaccessible file. Ugh, honestly it's just sickening about this, and you claim it doesn't hurt anyone when pirates do that. Well, it hurt ME PERSONALLY. Besides that, one could take those cards and just download the data from kiosks in stores to them for cheaper than buying a brand new card with the game on it. It would be just like the olden days of the floppy disks and the Famicom Disk System add-on. I still think it would be cool if they did that, but oh well. Honestly, I am not Nintendo's accountant, I just want to have fun, so I don't care about their own personal risk in this.

No, I disagree. It's not just about piracy. It's also about money. Let's think about it. As N_A says, these cards get expensive as they get big. Like with carts most companies want to save money. So, how many companies are going to get a card size much larger than they need just to leave a big block of space for downloading stuff? Because it'd have to be big, or it'd get very frusterating.

Right, that list has one name on it: Nintendo. No one else would, I bet. Or wouldn't do it more than once... honestly, if you want this (and I still see very little use for it), use either what Nintendo mentioned -- that is, Wi-Fi connections to a PC -- or some connectivity to Gamecube and there to a SD card, somehow. Either of those are much more realistic and much more likely to actually get any support from anyone.

OB1
The PSP will have wifi internet support. And you forgot to mention that it plays movies, GR.

Dark Jaguar
Ya know, I really don't think Nintendo is ever going to actually produce that SD card adapter, so I really don't think that'll ever be an option. Anyway, I was under the impression that these carts were essentially alternate format devices, as I said earlier, and hence why I think they should just go all the way, since cost would already be the same. If it's just a large cart that really is cheaper to make like a GBA cart, then honestly I don't understand why they are being compaired to SD cards anyway. Lastly, yes I hadn't thought of that, wi-fi WOULD allow the same thing I'm thinking of.

A Black Falcon
DJ, the SD adaptor was released in Japan and works with one version of Animal Crossing...

And yes, the wifi connecting to a PC does seem like an easier system, definitely.

OB1, okay, so they're equal on the wifi. But as for movies, it's obviously more likely on the PSP but didn't Nintendo say that the DS maybe could as well?

Dark Jaguar
The Advance already is, though it's like short 15 minute Spongebob episodes... :D

Ah, I didn't know the SD adapter was FINALLY released. Here's the thing. The next Nintendo system should either use SD cards straight out of the box, or not at all. Not much point in an add-on to use an accesory (as the GBASP headphone adapter's stellar sales reveal).

One other thing, what did you mean by PSO opening a piracy backdoor anyway? I can't imagine Phantasy Star Online actually making it easier to pirate things. I mean, the game can't be pulled out through the online adapter or anything. That just sends some very small amounts of data.

Smoke-X
I found this on Nintendo's press site (http://www.nintendo.com/media/e32k4/systems/systems_ds.html). The username/password I posted elsewhere still work BTW.

Microphone: An available microphone port means that in the future, players might need only to tell their games what to do. DS software could identify everything from voice commands to hand-clapping. Players might be able to move their characters simply by telling them which way to go. The voice capabilities also could allow gamers to chat with one another over the Internet while playing.

A Black Falcon
It's been mentioned here before. Before PSO no one could play pirated games on the Cube. But with it, there is a program that can connect the Cube, running PSO, to a PC and then get it to run a ISO... I don't know how, but PSO was the key. It was the first game to use the network and obviously they left a hole for something like this.

OB1
I know, the mic thing is so damn awesome, Smoke.

A Black Falcon
My post was a response to DJ's, obviously.

And yes, that could be great, definitely... chat while playing multiplayer games on the DS...

Great Rumbler
Or you could just use it to start a chat with some of your friends.

Dark Jaguar
I'm fairly certain that it won't be long after the device is released before voice chat is implemented in DS games. XBox Live games NEED to have it due to MS's REALLY strict guidelines for anyone who decides to use Live. The PS2, though there's no requirements because Sony just has a "let it alone" attitude towards online play (which seems to work for Sony simply because they at least advertise that they CAN go online), still has some games support voice. I figure if a developer wants to, they'll do that with this as well. It's only a matter of lag...

A Black Falcon
http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/517/517932p1.html

No answers on if it'll play GB/C games, but it doesn't have a link port at this point for multiplayer GBA or below games...

Oh, and there's a picture of the card. :)

alien space marine
To bad the PSP doesnt have GBA backwards capability :evilha:

Great Rumbler
Too bad the PSP isn't backwards compatible with PS1.

lazyfatbum
Hmm... half the sales of the PS2 come it's backwards compatibility to PSX games... and yet the PSP has it's own system for storing games... so that Sony can get a little cut of every game made for it... and in the process will piss off every playstation owner in the process...

Excellent job, Sony Computer Entertainment. You are at the peak of your game, on the ball, ready for anything and capable of making huge, profitable choices in global business.

(for me to poop on)

If the PSP takes off, i'll be surprised. The GB has eaten the souls of every single hand held ever released. I think the GBA will even eat the DS. But time will tell.

lazyfatbum
Of course, you do realize that the PSP will have ports of classic PSX and PS2 games and sell them for full price on the PSP. Not unlike Nintendo's ports of classic games, Although Nintendo's ports of classic games on the GBA are more than 10 years old, sometimes 20 YEARS old and most kid/teen gameplayers today never played them simply because the NES and SNES can only be found on EBAY or in Pawn Shops. It'll have a totally different taste when you have to pay 30 to 40 bucks for a Playstation game that's only a few years old when you can find it in a bargain bin for 5 bucks for a system that's still being marketed and available in retail. But it could work.