View Thread : yay


A Black Falcon
I found Ogre Battle 64 for $12 used a few days ago in town. And got it. :)

... but I haven't played it much yet. Between multiplayer, getting P.N.03 a week ago, and the fact that yesterday I got Soul Calibur II...

Great Rumbler
Good job there, double-poster.

Edit: There, I fixed it so now there's only one version of this thread.

Dark Jaguar
Really? Multiplayer? So you found some LOCAL friends that can pick up the second controller and play against you? Good!

A Black Falcon
No, as I said in another thread, my cousin was here for the weekend. :)

What we probably played most was Capcom vs SNK 2.

alien space marine
You are a very strange fellow.

But I am glad your happy.

Great Rumbler
I've had Ogre Battle 64 for like a hundred years.

A Black Falcon
It's not the easiest N64 game to find. :) Not the hardest, probably, but not that easy.

DMiller
And if you find it you usually will have to pay a crapload for it. Ogre Battle 64 is one of my favorite N64 games, and be sure to post impressions once you've played it for a while.

EdenMaster
yesterday I got Soul Calibur II...

Good choice. You won't regret it. Now look for one of the licensed Soul Calibur II arcade sticks, it makes playing the game much more fun and easier.

alien space marine
My freind bought Soul calibre II we beat it in 10 minutes.

A Black Falcon
Yeah, $13 including tax is a very good price for a game like Ogre Battle... :) ... and it had the box and manual too. Not just a loose cart or something.

Movie Gallery has 'buy two get one free' for their used games (and seems to be selling off all of their N64 games), but their game selection didn't have something like Ogre Battle. Still, they had Rush 2 and I'll have to get that sooner or later...

Soul Calibur II... been playing that one some more. Yes, if you put the difficulty on Normal and play original arcade mode, you'll beat it quite quickly. But there's the weapons master mode to add some hours, and higher difficulty levels which get much harder, and plenty of moves to learn... it's not that short, really, once you get into it.

Now I have 3 Cube fighters... Soul Calibur II, SSB: M, and CvS2. It's hard to say which is best, really, but Soul Calibur might be the worst. For multiplayer it is, anyway... it has balance issues, first -- some characters are just plain better. And I think that a classic 2d fighter like CvS just has more to it... and as for SSB, I don't know. It's so different from other fighting games... Single player, I don't know. It depends on what you mean by that, really... but CvS2 has the weakest one, probably. In how much time it takes for you to beat the game (and unlock everything), anyway...

I don't regret buying games very often... generally I know that I'll like what I buy so it isn't a problem. Sure, there might be a better game out there, but most of the stuff I have is good too... oh, I can think of some games I regret getting (like SimCity 3000 instead of Baldur's Gate, or Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance instead of Gauntlet Dark Legacy, or getting that GB Ken Griffey baseball game, etc...), but I don't just get random games I don't know much about. :)

Of course, the price helps too. I wouldn't have bought Soul Calibur II for $40, and probably wouldn't have for $30, but $20? :)

EdenMaster
My freind bought Soul calibre II we beat it in 10 minutes.

Sure, it can be easy to beat Arcade, but that isn't even half of the game. Try learning Cervantes, one of the hardest characters to master, and try playing as him successfully. It's not as easy as you think, I know, I've done it :).

*cough* 58 straight wins in Survival *cough*

some characters are just plain better

Nope, wrong. Every character has strengths and exploitable weaknesses. Any character in the roster can easily mop the floor with everyone else, granted you've trained enough with that character. Certainly, if you pick up Yunsung for the first time, you'll stink, but if you train with Raphael for days and weeks, you're going to become quite formidable.

You'll learn that the more you play.

A Black Falcon
It seems like the bigger characters are worse and smaller better... the big ones, at least based on a few plays, don't seem to do much more damage but attack way slower... it's odd, but it seems ubalanced towards the smaller characters who attack faster...

A Black Falcon
I'm sure that eventually you can do okay with anyone. But the characters that are easy to learn don't appear to be at any disadvantage compared to the ones that are hard to learn... that is not balance...

EdenMaster
You just need to learn the right moves. Once you witness one hit of Astaroth's Poseiden Tide Rush (look for it in Practice) take off a third of an opponents's health, you'll see the advantage. Astaroth has lost of other incredibly painful moves, but this one ranks pretty high. Quicker characters do less damage. Talim, Taki, and Raphael can all move with lightning quickness, but it takes time to whittle opponents down to death. Whereas Astaroth, Cervantes, and Nightmate can smash enemies to bits with slower, methodical strikes.

Quicker characters do less damage, slower characters do more. Characters that are easy to learn have somewhat simplistic moves, while learning the more difficult characters reward the biggest dividends and the best attacks. That is the very epitome of balance. Some characters are tougher to learn, but it's about learning to use them, not just learning how to throw a few moves together. It's about strategy. Case in point, I play most as Cervantes, I've practiced extensively, and I've got dozens of moves down and strategies on how to use them all in concert. Anyone can slap a horizontal attack with a vertical, throw a couple times and win the match, but that makes you a very predictable opponent. Learning more moves, and the best situations to use them in, is the true challenge. Then there's the whole concept of Soul Charging and Guard Impacts to throw into the mix, making this one of the best, nay, THE best fighter on the market.

It's okay, you're still learning the game. You need to play more, start experimenting with characters, choose one you like that you want to progress with, and then train, train, train. The games depth goes farther than you realize, you'll see eventually.

A Black Falcon
Um, so there's depth, and you can keep learning skills for a long time. That is good. But that doesn't change the fact that it's much, much easier to win with some characters than others! Okay, fine, so most fighting games are unbalanced. Like in CvS2, the Capcom characters are generally better than the SNK ones by a bit. But it's bad. Fine, you'll say that you need to learn the depth. But is it really balance when someone who is playing as one of the easy characters for the first time can win a lot, against people who have played the game a lot more?

I'm not the only one who's said that the big characters are at a disadvantage, either... I know several people who said that before I'd played more than the demo...

Sure, sometimes it's fun to play as a character for who the game is harder, and it's good to have such characters. But the game really could use some more balance.

As for how far I've got... I tried the arcade mode on the hardest difficulty. Don't think I've beat one enemy yet. :) But in Weapon Master I've gotten to chapter 10... though for some reason in a few of the later chapters I didn't get to one level, and I don't seem to have special level 2... does the game change what levels you get in weapon master depending on how well you do in the levels or something? Or do I just need to progress to get them...

Dark Jaguar
Yeah, there is very good sense of balance. In fact, you are about the only person I know who would say it's actually glaringly unbalanced. Even the "exlusives" have a very good sense of balance. Link specializes in medium speed, medium power close attacks as well as a wide range of actual LONG DISTANCE attacks. The strength is no real weakness, but the weakness is no real strength :D. Anyway, Link ends up a fun character with a VERY nice throw, until people finally learn to dodge it, then you better learn all the tricks like swooping in, doing a fake out to knock them about, then doing an updard strike as they fall, then when they land doing a few downward strikes. You know, that sort of thing.

A Black Falcon
Funny, I know at least three people who said that there is a definite better and worse thing with the characters...

Link is good, yes. One of the better characters...

Dark Jaguar
Actually, I play better with two of my best from SC1. Cervantes, and Xianpha, or however those names are spelled. I only remember how they are pronounced :D, though I do remember the exact spelling of everyone ELSE'S names...

A Black Falcon
Umm... Xinhua? No, that's not it... I don't remember how to spell her name either... :)

I'd say some of the easiest characters to be good with are Talim, Raphael, and Cassandra, probably.

A Black Falcon
I'm happy they left in the Japanese voices, because the American ones aren't very good...

Dark Jaguar
I thought the American voices were fine, but then again you've never played Symphony of the Night. That has TERRIBLE voice acting, making me wish they HAD left in the original voices there.

A Black Falcon
Mega Man X4's voice acting... it makes me happy that X5 has none and X6 left in the Japanese ones, for sure...

This isn't on that level, but the Japanese ones are noticably better.

Great Rumbler
I always liked Working Designs' shooters, because the translated text was translated so badly that it was funny.

EdenMaster
Umm... Xinhua? No, that's not it... I don't remember how to spell her name either... :)

It's Xianghua :)

Hey, I can say with utmost decisiveness that I can conquer any new player with a fast character using Astaroth or Cervantes, because <i>it's not all about button mashing</i>. The strategy involved takes time to learn, and when your still a novice, the lightning quickness of the fast characters is appealing, but they're not "better" than any of the other characters

I'm guessing in Melee you didn't like Ganondorf or Bowser very much. You seem to favor speed over power, and there's nothing wrong with that, we all favor speed or power. Frankly, I'm more into raw powerhouses when it comes to fighters, but your character preference is nomeans evidence that some characters are "better" than others.

Learn how to use more characters, then you can effectively use the funnest character in the game: CHARADE!

A Black Falcon
I played as Ganondorf some, actually... he is pretty good. But my favorite character was Sheik.

Oh, and I've tried to make Weapon Master a bit more interesting by not playing as those four (if you add Link, who should be on that list) I mentioned... for the second half of the first gothrough I used Seung Mina, actually.

Dark Jaguar
I too am a speed over power player. My feeling is that if you are constantly attacking without giving the enemy time to react, and are able to move fluidly around with speed flowing into more attacks, then the enemy won't have time to land an attack. The power players depend on finding openings in the attack style of the enemy of course, and those will always exist in a good game that puts openings in all the moves, and then taking those moments to use the slow but powerful attacks.

I myself just don't enjoy fighting like that. It's never been my style. I'll work with other characters to learn them well enough that I can do somewhat average with them, but generally I'll always pick from a certain handful of characters. I'll make it spread out between the fast ones and the medium ones, but powerhouse just isn't my style. Oddly enough, I find I'm not that bad with Nightmare/Siegfried.

Eh, I'll only add that that's ALSO how I race. In games like Mario Kart I tend to not pick the heavy weights, even with their superior momentum and such, in favor of the speed demons like Toad. There is ONE constant battle in my mind, acceleration vs max speed. Game makers know to balance these out so a high rating in one hurts the other. Anyway, generally like in F-Zero I'll have that rating right in the middle. In straightaways, I'll go to max speed, but in really curvy tracks, I'll give myself a decent boost in acceleration. Actually, the "average" tends to be just a little towards acceleration come to think of it...

Hey EM, or whoever loves battling robots. Do you watch Megas XLR? I loved their parody of those shows! *tap tap tap* OOOH!! And the deadly nail attack DEVASTATES the Grim Avenger! *robot flips over* Oh audience, I've never seen such a horrific display of sheer carnage! Then Megas totally tears up a robot for what I REALLY want to see in robot fighting, gears flying about and metal tearing with horrible screeching sounds!

A Black Falcon
In F-Zero GX, I use the Twin Noretta with the meter about 75-80% of the way towards Speed. Every time. :)

It depends on the game, though. In ones where I can choose the really fast character, I do. But in some I can't because they are too hard to play as... case in point, Wave Race. The fast-but-can't-turn characters are nearly impossible to actually play as...'

In some ways, the midrange characters are the worst... they don't do anything really well so do they do anything well? Like, in SSBM I don't like Mario at all... and in racing games I almost never choose the completely balanced vehicles. Or if I do it's because of looks, not because I like its stats (for instance, why I played as the Wild Goose in F-Zero X... it looks cool, is green, and once I started using it some I wanted to get all of the trophies with it and couldn't change.)...

Dark Jaguar
Towards... speed? That's hardly specific, that meter is for two aspects OF speed, not speed versus... well I guess control or something like that.

The medium characters don't have any strenghts, but they have no weaknesses either! That's all there is to it. As I've said, sometimes I prefer the balanced character. Having no strenghts is a weakness, but having no weaknesses is a strength! They can do pretty much everything with the same level of skill, and while that level of skill isn't as high as any specialist, the point is they can change to fit the situation, and of course with no glaring weaknesses the enemy has nothing to exploit and have to take these guys on using basically "anything that works". In other words, a battle with two midranges mean you really don't know how each one is going to go into the battle.

A Black Falcon
top speed vs. acceleration... seems pretty self-explanatory to me...

Sure, they don't have any weaknesses, but I just prefer people who do have some strengths. Though of course it's hard to be general because every game is different... like I said, the gameplay will affect it -- if some style is obviously better in the game I'll try that... but in general I don't prefer the midrange characters.

Oh yeah, and doesn't everyone get a certain group of characters who they usually play as in games like fighting games or racers? I know I do...

lazyfatbum
Ogre Battle 64 is good, I cant believe you got it so cheap.

With F-Zero; Lighter the craft, higher the top speed.

Heavier the craft, more acceleration.

a heavy car with good ecceleration is a bully on the road; You'll be able to smack people right off the tracks without that much work. Unfortunately the more ecceleration you have the more likely you are to slide during a turn, so you need to have a good basis of drifting.

Twinnoritta with a high top speed can only function on certain tracks. If there's not enough straightaways, you'll never max out speed and you'll end up averaging you speed out to a mid point and making you cannon fodder since the Twin is the lightest craft. However in F-Zero, it's not how fast you are, it's how well you outperform your opponent - A single well placed drift turn can determine the winner.

Great Rumbler
Yeah, F-Zero was all about driving skill. If you knew the track layout and could handle all the turns, jumps, gaps, ect. really well then you could win with any racer.

In most fighters I look to choose someone who's quick so I can get in and get out without taking much damage while whiddling away at my opponet. Sometimes, though, I like to get a fighter with a lot of strength [like Nightmare in SC2] and just bash away at my opponent. But I think I probably do better with quicker fighters.

A Black Falcon
Twin Noritta set high on top speed is good... I like how it slides when you turn -- it makes getting around very sharp turns (like those 90 degree ones in that track...) very easy. Too easy almost -- my biggest problem on said turns isn't missing them, it's turning too soon and hitting the side of the track in front of the turn... :D

EdenMaster
Twin Noritta all the way! Sure, it's light as a feather and just as durable, but it handles like a dream and drifts excellently.

As for the speed/power debate, I'm more into the powerhouses. Sure, you can move quicker than me, but I can absorb more hits than you. 3 of your hits can be equal to one of mine. If I'm tossing you across the arena you haven't got time to throw in attacks. All you need to do in SC2 is block until you spot a pattern. Find an opening, and exploit it. Even the slow characters have a couple quick moves. If you can't find a pattern, use one of the best techniques of SC2 and create your own opening, Guard Impact their ass and pound the daylights out of them.

There is no answer to whether speed or power is better, it's all subjective to each player. Each have benefits and shortcomings and can work well in battle.

A Black Falcon
With Twin Noritta I have no need to use the shoulder buttons most of the time because it naturally slide-turns... it's great...

Soul Calibur II... one thing it could use is more health. Like, compared to SvC2... the characters just plain last longer in combat in that game, and I like that more. SC2 battles can be so quick...

Oh, I played the first few hours of Ogre Battle. Interesting game... very unique. While I have definitely played games with morality as a major factor, this one brings it to another level... it seems like it'd be a lot harder to be good than evil, for sure, especially when your alignment goes down just about every time you kill enemies... unique, too, in how battles are short and don't usually actually involve casualties. I don't think I'd want all of this in every strategy game, but it's definitely intersting to try...

Dark Jaguar
Want more health? GET more health! It's right there in the option menu.

Great Rumbler
Speaking of getting games cheap I got Beyond Good and Evil on the PS2 [only slightly used] for only $6, even though I already have it on the GC [my brother has the GC though].

A Black Falcon
That only affects a few of the gmae modes, you know. Not Weapon Master for instance. On that note, why can't you turn on subtitles for Weapon Master? Annoying...

big guy
ogre battle 64 is one of my all time favorite games, along with the likes of jet force gemini, panzer dragoon saga, and beyond good and evil. in fact, it may very well be my favorite game ever. good choice picking it up.

i'm not sure if this is really a spoiler, more of a strategy i used in the game that i thought was f'n sweet, but i'll put it in spoiler tags anyway.

my favorite team i had was the upgraded wizard (mage?) with the annihilation spell, a tiamut and a wyvern in front of the wizard. the tiamut would put them to sleep with his quite powerful and very cool back row attack, if anyone was left awake they would either hit the tiamut and do almost no damage or attack the wyvern and miss every time. the wizard would then wipe them out with his 2 casts of annihilation. obviously this unit was extremely chaotic, so i'd take it out, slaughter everyone with it, and then use a neutral or lawful unit to capture the city (as most cities were neutral or lawful). anyway, that team was unstoppable, and extremely satisfying to use. and using that strategy i was able to get 100% chaos frame, which i think is difficult to do, although i'm not sure.

when it comes to fighting games and racers for that matter, i'm middle of the road all the way. i don't prefer weak, fast characters or strong, slow ones. i like the ones that can do a decent amount of damage and still move nicely. for example, link is my favorite character in SSB:M, because he's fast, but not too fast and can still dish out some wicked hits. and in soul caliber i'm a big sophitia player. in games like mario kart i tend to use yoshi, peach, mario, or luigi (or in DD a combination thereof) and utilize their middle of the road karts.

hmmm

A Black Falcon
I don't want to mention BG&E again, I remember what happened with OB1 last time I did... :)

Ogre Battle... I'm getting more used to it. It's just a very unique game, where doing damage is bad if you want good characters... having something like Baldur's Gate where you have moral choices in dialogue you can choose between and where you can lower reputation/alignment by doing evil things like stealing from people or attacking innocents I understand, but making combat itsself the main factor in alignment... very different. And interesting.

Oh yeah, it seems very easy so far. I'm sure it gets harder, but I'm in like the third mission of the first chapter or whatever (after the 2-mission prologue) and won them all easily... only two people have died, actually. Well, the first one became undead and died twice more but comes back to life... :) What are you supposed to do, have units with less than 5 people in them? Does that affect alignment too?

Dark Jaguar
You only played 5 missions and you are thinking it's too easy? Don't those games tend to have around 50 missions?

A Black Falcon
It has about 45 missions, yes. And I've played about 5 or 6. So yes it should be not too hard here, you are right... as long as the difficulty ramps up like it should it's not a problem. Just thought I should say it. And I will say that it definitely takes a few missions to start to really get how the game works down, despite the lengthy tutorial mode, the info section (Hugo Report), and the fact that everything has help screens (yes, it's a complex game, and the menus are somewhat confusing and not laid out in the easiest to use manner, but it's all explained quite well between the tutorial and the help option...)...