Ender Wiggin

Has anybody read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card? Wow. I never read sci-fi (fantasy is NOT sci-fi) and have never been a big fan of all the alien stuff, but this book was incredible. I couldn't put it down, and if not for the wierd philisophical last chapter it would be one of my favorite books. Still, the rest of the book more than makes up for the end wierdness, and it's only a couple minor details.

The story is not extremely original. Aliens have attacked earth twice, and we've only won by luck. So to make sure we win the next war, the government begins searching for genius children, and trains the best to be unbeatable commanders by playing war games. Ender is one of these kids, and is the most talented they've ever found. So with time running out, he Earth's last hope for survival.

It's not just fun sci-fi, but takes a hard look at stuff like war and the value of one life over another and is very interesting. I really enjoyed that, but takes a plunge off the deep end in the end.

It is very well written and I feel like I can completely relate to Ender in so many ways which only made it more exciting. If you like to read anything, I highly recomend it. I am definently going to be reading more of Card's stuff, but I think I may not read the next book in the series right away. From what I've heard, it picks up where Ender's Game left off, with the wierd philisophical pseudo-religious stuff that I didn't like. There is a parallel novel to this, called Ender's Shadow, which follows the same story but from the point of view of one of Ender's friends, Bean. I've heard it is very good, so I think I'll pick that up next.

Sci-fi's fine, as to me it's just another fantasy world, only with science instead of magic generally (yeah, to me, they are pretty much interchangeble..., I play a lot of Final Fantasy where both genres coexist in an awesome way so...). The way I see it, both are fantastical worlds where the laws of physics are different than the real world. Whether it's elves or aliens, it's the same to me, so all that matters is a good story.

Now, I've heard some things about this, actually just the name, but from what you say, it sounds interesting... Thing is, I've been burned by recent fiction... (honestly, I gotta call the entirety of the genres something that distinguishes it from fiction that could actually occur in the real world, so I'll just call them both fantasy...), so it's hard for me to get into some of it. I tend to kinda be stuck in the past by about a century or more here :D.

I read Ender's Game about a few months ago and, yes, it is a very good sci-fi book. Yeah, the ending was kind of weird, but the rest of the book more than made up for it.

I've been more into sci-fi recently than I have in fantasy. I think I kind of burned myself out on fantasy books, I've been reading them all the time for around 5 or 6 years.

GR, I picked up Ender's Shadow today, and I'm really enjoying it too. So far, not as much as Ender's Game, but we'll see what happens soon. If you are interested, I actually found the first few chapters online at Card's site, so check it out. It also has some chapters from Ender's Game and probably from the other books he has written. <a href="http://www.hatrack.com/osc/">Check it out</a>.

DJ, I see your point about sci-fi and fantasy. To me, sci-fi has to include some science, so stuff like LotR or Wheel of Time can't be considered sci-fi. There are no machines or computers or anything like that. However, sci-fi could certainly be fantasy, so I guess the correct way to think of it is that sci-fi is a subset of fantasy, and not the other way around or 2 distinct genres. I just always get frustrated when I have to go look in the sci-fi section (since I have never been a big fan of sci-fi) of some book store to find a book about elves and magic and a world without science, so I'm grumpy about that.

Well, here's an interesting mindset to see it from. Science fiction = Fictional Science. Magic = Fictional Science, therefor, magic = sci fi. Yes it's a stretch, but I think that's how they are seeing things. Thus, Bewitched = Sci-Fi :D

(On a lesser note, in Lord of the Rings, Sauroman developed the first black powder bomb of that world (and Wormtongue (NEVER trust a guy named Wormtongue! :D) nearly blew both of them up looking at it :D), and that's science no matter how you cut it :D.) INTRODUCING THE FIRST TRIPLE NESTED PARENTHESIS COMPLETE WITH TRIPLE :D STYLE SMILY FACES!

Oh, one thing about the entire genre as a whole. Generally, the only problem I ever have is when they focus more on the actual way the world works than the characters themselves. For example, when they get way too into how the transporter works for HALF AN HOUR, that's bad. I really don't need to know how this fictional device works, no matter how metaphorical you can get about it. Likewise, when they get into a 10 page speil about the effects of magic on the mind of the spellcaster, honestly that just reeks of bad storytelling. If they want to convey things like that, the direct approach is just plain bad to me. Tell about these effects via the CHARACTERS, and SUBTLY is the key! For example, instead of saying "Thus Loxi'mar, having caste the legendarian spell of Lighterra, slowly seeped into madness", just show the guy acting weirder and weirder. And, instead of explaining what happened later on in retrospect, either via narritive or a bunch of characters convienently stating the obvious, just make it clear via good storytelling what happened so it doesn't NEED explaining.

Sorry, just some things that bug me...

Sci-fi is harder to write than fantasy, mainly because you need to actually know something about how technology works if you want to make a coherent story.

To me, sci-fi has to include some science, so stuff like LotR or Wheel of Time can't be considered sci-fi. There are no machines or computers or anything like that. However, sci-fi could certainly be fantasy, so I guess the correct way to think of it is that sci-fi is a subset of fantasy, and not the other way around or 2 distinct genres. I just always get frustrated when I have to go look in the sci-fi section (since I have never been a big fan of sci-fi) of some book store to find a book about elves and magic and a world without science, so I'm grumpy about that.

I agree with that. But usually when I talk about fantasy and sci-fi, I'm talking about two distinct styles of books. Sci-fi deals with advanced technology and space, while fantasy deals with magic and usually in a medieva-style setting although not necessarily.

But they're always put in the same section in the bookstore... I can see why really. They are similar genres. Not the same genre, but similar... and yes, the differences are generally obvious. :)

Yeppers. Ya know GR, there are a chunk of sci-fi stories where they make NO attempt to explain the technology at all, and in fact the tech is so out there that it's indistinguishable from magic in a sense. If well written, no problem.

OPEN ETHER CIRCUIT! *causes flowers to bloom all around, healing everyone's wounds... somehow.... IN SPACE!*

I suppose, but if you want good, believable story you've really got to work for it.

Yeah, better sci-fi stories give a technological backing for what is going on, for sure. You want some kind of explanation for why things are the way they are... and most good sci-fi does that. Either by using real science or by starting with real science and then making things up on top of it that make a coherently ordered universe. :)

My own opinion is that should be revealed via the human interactions, not by people directly explaining it. It should be something you have to figure out rather than it just being handed to you. It's just annoying when they get lazy and just say "okay, here's the diagram" about stuff.

OK.. I read alot of stories, not quite books (online stories) writen by net authors.
Any way, one of the best books I have read in the Sci-Fi genre would have to be Larry Niven's Ringworld, Ringworld Engineer, Ringworld throne room and my personal favorite, Protector.

I would not reccomend these stories unless they were truely worth the read, Ringworld is a good first choice, then engineer then protector, then throne room.

What am I talking about, you guys aren't going to read any of them, BUT! I do have them as E-books, any one with a good reader and wants to have them just say so.

GR, I agree with you completely on how I think of fantasy and sci-fi. I can rationalize what others think about it and why htey do, but what you said is the way I always divide the two up in my head.

If they want to convey things like that, the direct approach is just plain bad to me. Tell about these effects via the CHARACTERS, and SUBTLY is the key! For example, instead of saying "Thus Loxi'mar, having caste the legendarian spell of Lighterra, slowly seeped into madness", just show the guy acting weirder and weirder. And, instead of explaining what happened later on in retrospect, either via narritive or a bunch of characters convienently stating the obvious, just make it clear via good storytelling what happened so it doesn't NEED explaining.

DJ, I know exactly what you mean. I hate when authors blow the entire story by explaining what just happened or what is going to happen next. I've noticed Tolkien will stop in the middle of telling the story, explain what is about to happen and how it all resolves, and then goes on for the next 50 pages giving you all the details of everything. It makes me so frustrated! Somebody should have told Tolkien about spoiler tags.

bountyhunter, thanks for the info. I'll check those out. I was real skeptical about anything not written by Robert Jordan for a long time because I had read other fantasy stuff that just didn't come close and I assumed that was the different between the best and the rest. Then I read Tolkien and decided he was okay too ;), and since then I've been gradually branching out. After reading Ender's Game, I am very willing to try new authors.

My brother has some of the Ringworld books, I'll try to borrow them from him sometime.

I've read quite a bit of fantasy and sci-fi (...it's most of what I read...), but not Ringworld... though I've seen it. And I'm pretty sure I have read some stuff from Larry Niven. Not sure what though.

As for the Ender's series, no. The only books of his I've read (I believe) was this one of the first three books of a five book series... Memory of Earth, something of Earth, and Ships of Earth... but I never found the last two books. They were good so I wish I could... :(

Yeah, that's how I classify them too, as I THINK I said... Anyway, for the most part I generally don't really care about which of these subgenres it falls under. I like Starcraft and Warcraft fairly equally in story, or would except Warcraft's IS much more developed than Starcraft's, simply due to a lot more effort being put into that franchise right now.

I actually HAVE a Ringworld book, but I never got around to reading it. I'm sure it's packed in some box somewhere around here though...

Ya know, actually LL you made me realize something. I love detail, but at the same time, I like that detail conveyed the right way. I think I have some conflicting opinions on things :D. Tolkein did explain a lot of stuff, but honestly for some reason that didn't strike me as "overly elaborate explaining of stuff that could have been revealed via good storytelling", well until now in retrospect :D. Maybe it was just the writing quality... Not really sure, but I'll say that Silmarillion really does do a great job of explaining various things via characters rather than direct explanations...

It didn't really bother me much in LotR, although I noticed it a little, but in The Hobbit he would write something like this:

So Bilbo was captured by the goblins who held him and did terrible things to him for many days. Ultimately he escaped and found a magic ring that would later prove to be of great importance. As you shall see. Here is how it happened. <Insert 50 pages describing that plot in much greater detail>

It drove me crazy!

:D Yes, The Hobbit was his first work in the whole thing, and it certainly did show I think. Educated fellow, but experience certainly is a really important thing. It really is more of a book for kids I think... Actually, there's another way to look at it, in the whole fictional world of all this, The Hobbit is written by an actual hobbit :D. They are simplistic themselves and lack suspense, so that's how it got written. Or, I dunno, something like that.

Yeah, you might be right. It was originally written as a kids book, and I didn't think about how that affected how he wrote it.