BASEBALL PLAYOFFS!

Boston raped the Angels 9-3 today at Anaheim, Ca., the Twins embarassed the Yankees with a 2-0 shut-out in da Bronx, and the Cardinals beat the Dodgers 8-3. Obviously I want the Sox to win; but besides that, I'd root for the underdog...like the Twins over the Assholes; the Dodgers over the Cardinals...

Share opinions and team rooting here.


---Barry.

Twins because they were up for contraction along with the Expos when it was first proposed by that fucking faggot Selig, so I have a soft spot for them.

Dodgers because of Eric Gagne. But also, Cardinals because of Larry Walker. It's a tough choice.

Angels becaue of Vladimir Guerrero. He's still my favourite player in the MLB, and if anybody deserves a World Series, it's him. Besides, I'm not too worried about the Sox winning anything. If any team knows how to choke under the spotlight, it's them. And the 1997 NL Cy Young winner Pedro Martinez has lost his godamn mind. Even if the Red Sox do make it out of the first round, they'll still lose to his Daddy, the Yankees (assuming they beat the Twins, which I don't want).

Atlanta over Houston. The Braves always beat the Astros, and they have tonnes of October veterans.

I'm sorry but I just can't bring myself to care about baseball anymore.

Twins because they were up for contraction along with the Expos when it was first proposed by that fucking faggot Selig, so I have a soft spot for them.

Yea; I like the Twins, too. And I feel terrible for the Expos, and poor Youppi!

Dodgers because of Eric Gagne. But also, Cardinals because of Larry Walker. It's a tough choice.

I don't follow National Teams. Those are just names to me.

Angels becaue of Vladimir Guerrero.

He's a good player; but the Angels have won more than their fair share of World Series in the past 15 years...its time to pass it on.[/b]

Besides, I'm not too worried about the Sox winning anything. If any team knows how to choke under the spotlight, it's them.

You're assigning personificational character flaws to an orgnaization. It's a constantly-evolving baseball club, not a shakespearean tragedy victim...

Even if the Red Sox do make it out of the first round, they'll still lose to his Daddy, the Yankees.

Oh mean; you just said the wrong thing...

*Declares formal state of war on Fittisize*

I also like the Twins. I am definitely rooting for them against the Yankees... but against anyone other than the Sox (or maybe Mariners) at this stage of the playoffs I'd be rooting for them. :)

Expos... poor guys. It is truly horrible what MLB has done to a once decent baseball city. I hope they get another team someday... with a real ownership group and a decent stadium.

I dislike the stupid Angels. Want them to lose in three. :)

As for the NL... hmm. I think I have to say Braves over Astros (the Braves were once in Boston and Texas is stupid... :))and ... erm, in Dodgers vs Cardinals I don't really care... either one. Cardinals maybe, so we can play them in the World Series and get revenge for 1945. :D

As for Pedro... I really hope he gets better. Losing four straight in September is NOT a good way to end your season and after those comments about the Yankees... we'll see soon.

If I can get over crying about the Cubs' horrible collapse I'll give my predictions.

Wasn't that you who won our fantasy league though? I know I finished second...

I know that I horribly under-achieved in the playoffs in the Fantasy League. If only I would have made it out of the first round, which I should have.

If the Sox win tomorrow, we'll have swept the Angels in three games. I'm proud--and even boastful--to say that I'll be inattendance tomorrow at Fenway Park. Ideally, it'd be Sox vs. Yankees next week... and ideally, we'd rape them in dramatic fashion to get back nice at those cocksuckers. Ideally.

Wasn't that you who won our fantasy league though? I know I finished second...

Yeah, I won, but I would gladly give up my fantasy baseball title to see the Cubs in the World Series. I'll get over it, though, if the Twins beat the Yankees.

I got gypped out of going to Fenway today, but we won anyway: David Ortiz carried us home. So, I foresee It'll be us & the Yanks next week...

Yeah, I won, but I would gladly give up my fantasy baseball title to see the Cubs in the World Series. I'll get over it, though, if the Twins beat the Yankees.

Because I beat you, right? :) Hey, that's what happens when you let the people who finish 5th and 6th into the playoffs...

What are you talking about? I said I won. I beat you in the World Series.

*Pictures two internet geeks wrestling in the middle of a jam-packed stadium* :evilha:

What are you talking about? I said I won. I beat you in the World Series.

Uh, wrong quote. I meant to quote Fittisize... I believe I beat Fittisize in round one of the playoffs... as the low seed. :)

Oh, I see. You have to be careful with the quote button. It's a dangerous tool if it is not wielded with the appropriate respect.

Darunia's AIM Profile adequately reflects his opinions on the ALCS:

How can anyone believe in this "god" character described in the Bible; a god who cares and loves us all equally, and is good, fair, unbiased and kind---a god who never closes a door without opening a window; a god who watches over all of us... is this the same god who time and time again crushes the heart and spirit of all New England in October? Just how much did it take Steinbrenner to bribe god to lull this outcome? Why do the corrupt, money-lusting, decidedly smug and quite immoral New Yorkers always win--? The foregone conclusion, sadly, is that under such circumstances there can be no god. Check and mate.
See ya next April, assholes.

Why did this thread come back to life? You want to increase the pain? Stupid Red Sox... :(

At least you made it to the playoffs. The Cubs' curse generally has them collapsing before they can experience any level of success.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041014/capt.nyy12710140230.alcs_red_sox_yankees_nyy127.jpg

C-3P0 himself. John Olerud is becoming one of my favourite players in baseball. He's so cool and calm. The way he swung the bat and ran the bases after that two run shot vs. the Sox in Game 2 looked the same as if he was sitting through Church. It was awesome. Plus he wears his batting helmet on the field. Man that's funny. That's why I'm cheering for the Yankees, to win the ALCS, at least. I want the Cards to win it all because Larry Walker is probably my most favourite player in baseball, maybe even more so that Vladimir Guerrero.

Well we won one... I know our odds are microscopic but as long as we have any at all I have to hope that we can do it. So, go Pedro tonight... actually not too long from now, given the 5pm start...

Man, 14 innings. That's just nuts.

14? where? The game yesterday was 12...

12, 14, same thing. It was late at night, and I don't even watch baseball! It's amazing that I watched as much as I did.

Five hours, too... I know it's a worn out saying, but there's no clock in baseball. :)

And a much better ending than the previous three games... now we just have to hope that the game starting now will go as well.

16 hours between games, not much time for the players to recover...

And I laugh at you Boston people for having to stay up so late. Hahaha! Did you get up early this morning?

Early? I'm not a morning person... but I have a 10 am class so I had to be up by like 9:30...

You get ready in half an hour?

SOX WON AGAIN! ORTIZ: WORLD'S BEST MVP! SOX IN 7!

Holy crap, and it was 14 innings this time! I must be a friggin' psychic or something!

Get up. Put on clothes. Put proper books in bag. Go to bathroom. Walk to class. Half an hour is plenty.

Oh, and that was amazing... I watched most of the game, and all of it from the mid 8th on. Great game. 5 hours 45 minuites, 14 innings... wow. So tense! It's incredibly, incredibly nervewracking in extra innings with so much on the line... it's not much fun to watch really but you have to! And then when in the end they WIN... wow. Wow. Incredible... I didn't really think they'd do it, honestly... but now, I think they may have a chance. Oh, the Yankees still have a decided advantage, but it's not impossible...

Get up. Put on clothes. Put proper books in bag. Go to bathroom. Walk to class. Half an hour is plenty.



What about breakfast and showering?

And hey, my mess-up of 14 innings the other day was pretty amazing, huh? I made a mistake, or so it seemed... because I was thinking about the future! *puts hands to temple* OoooOOooWEEEeeooooWeeee!

I gave up trying to get to breakfast at school a few years ago... I was just never making it. Oh well. As for showering, I don't do that in the morning...

And yes, amazing precience there. So can you guess how many innings today's game will be too?

My guess is zero because it'll probably be rained out. :)

I gave up trying to get to breakfast at school a few years ago... I was just never making it. Oh well. As for showering, I don't do that in the morning...
Ewww...
And breakfast is the most important meal of the day!

And yes, amazing precience there. So can you guess how many innings today's game will be too?

My guess is zero because it'll probably be rained out.


My guess today is... 13!

Well if it's not rained out 13 is a quite possible number...

You better believe it!

GO BO SOXSON WOOOOO

YEAH BO SOXSON WOO!!!

It's awful watching these games... so tense, so close... it makes you so nervous... and the Yankees keep getting so close to winning! And then when the Sox won... after each of the last two games after we won there was a crowd of several hundred people (students) outside yelling and stuff. For almost half an hour. :)

My estimate was off.

But hey, maybe tonight's game will get to 13 innings!

The problem with psychic abilities is that they're just so unpredictable. :D

Well we're lucky it was off, because if it wasn't it'd have meant that the Yankees would have tied the game... :)

Well, tied at the ninth inning.

Hey maybe they'll go to 4.BILLION innings tonight!!

These last three games though... not just tense, but fantastic baseball games. Five games in five days in the playoffs. Three games in a row over four hours. Two over five. Tired pitching staffs. Extra inning games back to back. Close plays where the umpires CHANGE THEIR CALLS... for the better (that is, changing them from incorrect calls to clearly correct ones, something so rare in the past in baseball!). Not to mention Red Sox-Yankees... does baseball get any better than this? I doubt it.

Go, Astros and BoSox!!

These last three games though... not just tense, but fantastic baseball games. Five games in five days in the playoffs. Three games in a row over four hours. Two over five. Tired pitching staffs. Extra inning games back to back. Close plays where the umpires CHANGE THEIR CALLS... for the better (that is, changing them from incorrect calls to clearly correct ones, something so rare in the past in baseball!). Not to mention Red Sox-Yankees... does baseball get any better than this? I doubt it.

Which is why I may never watch another baseball game on tv again...

Bah, it's always interesting... maybe not THIS interesting, but I always like watching. That is, when the Red Sox are playing; I don't really watch games involving anyone else unless it's the World Series or something. They don't interest me that much.

I like playing baseball, but I don't know enough people who also like playing it.

i thought the yankees couldn've tied it up until rodriguez's stunt.

That could have been horrible for the Sox if it had worked, but fortunately upon review the umpires saw through the cheating and called him on it... hope you're happy, A-Rod. Instead of 2 outs and Jeter on 2nd you had 2 outs and Jeter on first. :)

that would've sucked for them, hopefully yankees'll win tonite!

Go, BoSox!!

BoSox 8, Yankees 3

THEY DID IT

You see? I start watching baseball and all of your dreams come true!

Oh.
My.
Sweet.
Jesus.


SOX IN BIGGEST COMEBACK IN SPORTS HISTORY...
....YANKEES IN BIGGEST COLLAPSE IN SPORTS HISTORY...


SOX GOING TO WORLD SERIES IN BEST POSSIBLE FASHION!!


¡¡¡¡THEY DID IT!!!!

So maybe now you people will finally shut up about the "evil Yankees"?

Didn't watch the game, but I checked in on it to see the score at 10-3. Ouch for the Yanks.

So maybe now you people will finally shut up about the "evil Yankees"?

Not likely.

Anyone else see a Return of the Jedi-style comparison here? Battle of Endor, anyone? :banana: :clap:

Haha, yeah. That mullet guy could pass for an ewok. He's a hairy man.

Well I meant more of the epic-turn-around-against-all-odds-Evil Empire thing. Even the team colors; Red Sox are red and blue; Yankees are cold white with stripes. Evil. Pure evil.

Could that win have been any more perectly choreographed... down by 3; to win the next 4... could it have been? Yankee victory was a breath away every single time, and against all odds, we clung on and won. My God, can you believe it. It's like a movie. Amazing.

God bless the Red Sox.

Yeah, I know what you were talking about.

heya!

Unbelievable. I can't fucking believe the Yankees, of all teams, became the first team in the long, long history of the World Series to blow a 3-0 lead. It's been a shitty year for sports: the Edmonton Oilers miss the playoffs, the Calgary Flames (the Oilers arhrival) make the playoffs for the first time in 7 years, and make it go game seven of the freaking Stanley Cup finals, the Red Sox win, no NHL hockey this year, the Eskimos might miss the playoffs for the first time in over twenty years, and worst of all, the Expos leave Montreal. Plus the Titans aren't doing that great out of the gate.

But in ten, twenty, thirty years, what do you think will be most memorable moment of the 2004 World Series? What the Red Sox did, or, what the Yankees didn't do? Definetly the latter. Will discuss more in depth later.

I don't think they will be remembered as seperate events, regardless of whether or not Boston finally wins the title. The 2004 Yankees will, until it happens again, be remembered as one of the most fantastic disasters in sports history, and the 2004 Red Sox will be remembered as one of the greatest ass-hair-away-from-elimination victors in sports history. Of course, the two teams involved in this will give this series far more legend than almost any other matchup... this is one of the fiercest rivalries in sports ever.

However, because of The Curse, I am inclined to believe that it will be better remembered for the Red Sox and their triumph. This will become a legendary feat, right alongside The Immaculate Reception and Rumble in the Jungle. Whether or not it will be remembered as the Year of the Broken Curse or the Year of the Incredible Choke depends on how Boston handles itself in the Series. But either way, they'll be remembered as one event forever.

I disagree. The Yankees are perhaps the greatest teams in sports, and they are expected to win every single year, regardless of the opponent. Boston is still snakebitten, and because they are so prone to losing in big games year in and year out, the nerves will get to them and the Red Sox will lose in the World Series. Hence, the curse will still live on, and it'll just be another chapter in the Boston Red Sox history where they lost with everything on the line. Whoop-de-doo. Heard that story a million times already. In my eyes, the Yankees becoming the only team in the illustrious history of the MLB to lose after being up three games to zero is much more significant than anything that the Red Sox have done. Ever. Even being the team to beat the Yankees after being down 3-0.

btw, Miracle was a crappy movie. The hockey games were done well, but the way it was portrayed as not being just a game (albeit an imortant one) between the Soviet and American hockey teams, but as something to signifiy superiority over the other country, not just in hockey, but all around, was something that I didn't like. (even though the Soviet's were the better team, no question about it, just not on that particular night)

I disagree again, and my reasoning is one of the games I mentioned above in comparison, the Immaculate Reception. The hero of that game was Franco Harris of the Pittsburgh Steelers, in 1972. At that time, the Steelers were one of the most consistent failures in professional sports. The miraculous last-second touchdown reception in this game allowed for the Steelers to break history in their own small way: It was the team's first-ever postseason victory in 40 years. 32 years later, this game is still considered one of the legendary events in sports history... even though the Steelers were eliminated the next game in the playoffs by the Dolphins. Even though the Steelers didn't capitalize on that miracle fully, it's still part of NFL legend.

Now, the reason why I think you're wrong about who will be remembered is quite simple: History remembers the victors, especially when they overcome great odds. When people remember the greatest comeback in NFL history, they remember the Bills came back from 31 down, before they remember that the Oilers gave up a 31 point advantage. They will remember that Muhammad Ali took his blows and connected at the right time, less than they will remember that George Foreman was suckered by his rope-a-dope and wore himself out. They remember the 1980 US Hockey team upset a hugely-favored Soviet team, not that the hugely-favored Soviet team was outplayed by a vastly-inferior foe. And they will remember that the Red Sox accomplished an unprecendented come-from-behind victory more than they will remember that the Yankees suffered a historic collapse.

The winners write the history books.

Amazing. Really, really amazing. I knew they had a chance, but like most people didn't really think they would pull it off... that that did is simply stunning. Break the Curse? I don't know, the Curse isn't just about the Yankees after all, it's about the World Series... and, wouldn't you know it, we're playing the Cardinals in the WS. The same Cardinals who beat us in '46 and '67. Revenge! :)

The only damper on this is the fact that in the postgame party/riot in Boston, one of the fans was killed by a police "nonlethal" round... very sad...

Yea...I'm furious about that. The fucking gestappo shot her right through the eye with a pepper ball, which bursts on contact. The poor thing; they show these graphic pictures of a young girl in bright Red Sox attire, lying sprawled on the sidewalk, bleeding from the left eye and nose... the cops are standing around her, nonchalantly, while a friend attends to her, and checks her pulse.

Yikes. So, I suppose the lesson here is that during a riot you should either a.) stay at home...and lock your doors, b.) if caught outside in a riot find someplace to hide or c.) tuck and cover and hope no one steps on you.

Or, if caught in a riot, fuck shit up! It's what I'd do.

That's because you seem to be a total jerk. From everything I've heard you say, you seem to believe the only thing that makes something wrong is the consequences you personally suffer as a result. That's about the mindset of the average serial killer too ya know. Ever heard of empathy? Yes, it's a fact, you CAN feel bad for OTHER PEOPLE just as much as you can for yourself.

Uh, okay? Because in a riot I'd like to do something ludacris and riot that makes me a jerk? What? I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Because I'm not empathetic and don't feel sorry for people (how the hell would you know, anyways?) I guess that makes me a bad person. At least in comparasion to you. I think that you're right about me being a serial killer, too. I feel an urge to kill all of a sudden. Sigh. If only Dark Jaguar thought I was empathetic.

The Rioters are just as responsible of this as the cops, If you feel like causing a riot trash your house , Then maybe after wards you might realize it sucks to have your tv smashed in and your living space in a mess how do you think the poor Homeless people feel after you trashed their house.

Uh, okay? Because in a riot I'd like to do something ludacris and riot that makes me a jerk?.
Yes.

I think it's funny when people substitute rappers' names for proper English words.

You could argue that the expos were hit with some kind of curse in 1994,
For the first time in the teams history things looking good they had a all star team and alot of new sucessful rookies they were the highly antciapated winners for the hole thing.Then the strike happend and Montreals hopes were put up so high before that and it was crushed that year and the people never forgave the team,The expo team 1995 clearly waisnt going to even be the same one as in 1994 so basically all the talent went out the door it was back to the same old losing streaks the fans quickly faded away. People became so synical of the Expos to the point that you couldnt give a ticket seat even if it was free.

As for the Red Sox I think this sopposed imaginary curse is what screwed the team and effected its morale,Maybe it would not have been as bad for so long if the fans and players didnt expect to lose all the time. I think breaking this curse was a motivator for the players this time and not being the underdog if they were quiters they could have just said "3-0 we are screwed forget it" and not try but they didnt and look at it now.

What fans should do if they honnestly suspect such a thing, Go get your damned Shamans and catholic priests and make a mass exorcism if it makes you feel better, I think it would help the team.

I think it's funny when people substitute rappers' names for proper English words.
I've never used the actual word before, I don't think. "Ludicrous". Is that better for you? Is it "proper"? :rolleyes: Nobody cares.

Yes, that's better. Don't let it happen again, hear?

The Rioters are just as responsible of this as the cops,

Absolutely not! The 'rioters' were reveling in the great, elusive victory... no one (as in NO ONE) would've be hurt, hadn't the cops strutted in there and started using rough tactics. That girl (an innocent bystander) would still be alive, in class perhaps, if they cops hadn't come. The cops shot other people too; some people were climbing onto the scaffolding outside of Fenway. The cops shot them, and at least one fell over and almost died because of that! The cops shouldn't have taken any action. Their presence alone was a deterrence, their murdering that poor girl was a crime against humanity. I hope that the cops who did it are fired and castrated.

how do you think the poor Homeless people feel after you trashed their house.


... :shake:

Well... the police were out there in force because of what happened after the Patriots victory, Darunia. Remember? A car ran into a crowd, with no police anywhere around, and a man was killed? Yeah, that. So this time the police showed... and clearly used way too much force -- the person killed was not one of the rioters and was not near them --, but it's easy enough to figure out why they were there. Though why they were shooting at people who were not threatening anything, that I'd like to know...

The Rioters are just as responsible of this as the cops,

Absolutely not! The 'rioters' were reveling in the great, elusive victory... no one (as in NO ONE) would've be hurt, hadn't the cops strutted in there and started using rough tactics. That girl (an innocent bystander) would still be alive, in class perhaps, if they cops hadn't come. The cops shot other people too; some people were climbing onto the scaffolding outside of Fenway. The cops shot them, and at least one fell over and almost died because of that! The cops shouldn't have taken any action. Their presence alone was a deterrence, their murdering that poor girl was a crime against humanity. I hope that the cops who did it are fired and castrated.

how do you think the poor Homeless people feel after you trashed their house.


... :shake:

The homeless thing was a joke ! I realize ive been mentaly out of it for quite a while now but you take everything so seriously as if I meant for real...
or was that smiley thing part of your humouress respounce?

I did not know the full story on that ! If you use the word "Rioters" I will assume there was a riot. When you got a mass crowd of nuts people it can turn into a riot in seconds especially with drunk or high people dancing around getting others angry or having some people decide to celebrate by trashing a car or smashing things.

In canada this year at the stanley cop finales calgary had a simular event except unlike the "Boston police" the Mounties just watched and observed and even cheered along the fans to try to keep it cool fun and not deadly.

Boston probaily is a much more crime ridden city then calgary which is in the richest province in canada, But the mounties di everything right the crowd was huge that a few streets had to be closed to traffic the mounties did everything Boston police didnt at this event , Calgarys experience and Bostons are almost mirrors with alternate endings.

Now if the cops got to agressive and were what set it off when there was nothing major happening to require it, Then yah they were idiots.It was unprofessional and if the guy is just shooting out of annoyance then the police department needs to be corrected and deciplined or even do some firing and at worse jailing.

If I were boston id hire the mounties to train the Boston police, There is no shame the mounties are the oldest organize policing force in north america , They always performed well on average even in the toughest situations "world summits" and Drunken university riots and whacky sports fan gatherings" .

or maybe I am a little bias since my grand father was a mounty as was his father this generation is the only absent of a mounty or even regular cop.

Darunia didn't like baseball till this season. n00b.

No shit. He once referred to people who enjoy pro sports as morons, or something along those lines. Something about worshipping pro athletes as gods because they are better at playing games than you are. Or something.

I realize ive been mentaly out of it for quite a while now

Your admitting that means so much to me, ASM! :kiss:

No shit. He once referred to people who enjoy pro sports as morons, or something along those lines. Something about worshipping pro athletes as gods because they are better at playing games than you are. Or something.

Oh, my yes--and I still stand by those accusations. They're all tin gods. I don't worship them; I nigh support them financially (both my visits to Fenway have been free), besides a Sox hat and a few shirts. I enjoy watching the games.

I am feeling good now! Its just been october that I have been wiped out and I will admit alot of posts meant nothing except just to raise my post count and prevent fitisize from stealing my position.

The Castro and the riot thing is the first things I actually cared about and tried to put a effort into writing it.

Boston has some crime but it's not so horrible that the only reaction to a thing like this by the cops would be force... yes, there were some rioters who did stupid things like burning cars and climbing Fenway Park (well, the Green Monster) on the outside. But... the police should have just been looking for places where people could really get hurt! So pay attention to the rioters. Don't bother the rest of the crowd who is doing nothing wrong... the police clearly over-reacted and were not prepared for the situation despite how they should have known way in advance what it'd be like there. What they really should have done is restricted access to Landsdowne Street in the first place! Why let a massive crowd (like 80,000 or 90,000) into that area of very narrow streets and a lot of bars right next to Fenway? It makes no sense!

Its just been october that I have been wiped out and I will admit alot of posts meant nothing except just to raise my post count and prevent fitisize from stealing my position.

And what position would that be?

And what position would that be?

Take a big guess!

Uh, really, what are you talking about?

"post" and "counts" two words figure it out!

This is kind of weird. We actually look like we are going to win. And I really don't know how I feel about it. How so? First, I don't really like the wild card. Getting into the playoffs that way really does feel cheap... yes, it makes up for it somewhat by beating in the playoffs the team that beat us, but still... we finished second in the regular season! In addition to that, I don't see a big benefit from the fans' perspective in winning. What would change? Nothing really. New England would still love baseball. The Red Sox would still get intense scrutiny. We just wouldn't have the 'haven't won in a long time' thing... which is kind of sad but it's also one of the identifying things abotu the Red Sox and being a Red Sox fan! So from a fan's perspective, this is weird... and somewhat negative.
The perspective from which winning is clearly good is the player's one. This is probably the last year that this team will be together. They already started breaking it up with the sale of Nomar, most of and the rest of the core could be gone next year (Varitek, Lowe, Pedro, etc...). It'd be great to have one win with this team before they disband, and over the years they have certainly played well enough to deserve it.

If we can't depend on the Red Sox losing every year what can we depend on?!

The Red Sox will win, and that's pretty much the bottom line. Congratulations in advance to 1997 NL Cy Young Winner Pedro Martinez and Orlando Cabrera, two former Expos that made a difference on this team.

But with the Red Sox winning the World Series, what do they have? What are they? A team that has won a single championship in 80+ years, and a team that had to buy a championship, that's what they are. The Red Sox are nothing without the curse.

Isn't the goal of these games to determine who the best team is? Well, doesn't that mean that if they win this, it means they are the best team? If it doesn't, then is the manner in which the best team is decided year after year flawed? If it is flawed, should it not be changed? If not, then what kind of tournament setup is this anyway?

Red Sox win!! Massive riots ensue!!

Woo!

great series but seriously who honestly thought boston wouldn't win? congrats to all the boston fans woo-hoo!

If we can't depend on the Red Sox losing every year what can we depend on?!

Pretty much, except it means a bit more than that... the Red Sox are really popular in New England. Team #1 of any sport easily. So what happens when the character of being a Red Sox fan changes? Think about it. The Sox have been identified with failure and suffering in their fanbase for 85 years... we don't win and part of being a Red Sox fan (was?) recognizing that. But now we HAVE won. What does it mean? Well, it well could mean that being a Sox fan isn't really 'special' anymore -- it's like being a fan of any other team, except being more passionate about it. That is to say, winning loses a big part of the identity of Red Sox fandom. And honestly, I am not really going to say that losing it was a good thing...

Sure, overall little will change. But the fact is we won and that really does have an impact on what it means to be a Sox fan. Does it now mean that we expect another? That if, next year, we go any less than to the Series we should be dissatisfied? In my opinion, the line between that and in some respects becoming Yankees-lite is too thin for my liking...

I know, we won so I should be happy. And I am. It's amazing and fantastic, and I only wish that we had done it while Ted Williams was still alive... (as I said before, on the players front winning is a clearcut Very Good Thing -- just read any articles now about Johnny Pesky to prove that one... he's been waiting so long...) But, I just had to say that I have to mourn for the loss of a big part of the identity of Red Sox fans.

So in short, in this case Fittisize is too close to the truth here... not quite, but too close for comfort for a fanbase that spends its time attacking the Yankees and their over-spending ways.

But with the Red Sox winning the World Series, what do they have? What are they? A team that has won a single championship in 80+ years, and a team that had to buy a championship, that's what they are. The Red Sox are nothing without the curse.

Isn't the goal of these games to determine who the best team is? Well, doesn't that mean that if they win this, it means they are the best team? If it doesn't, then is the manner in which the best team is decided year after year flawed? If it is flawed, should it not be changed? If not, then what kind of tournament setup is this anyway?

DJ, this isn't exactly about that but it helps go to show that you just have no idea what the Red Sox mean to New England...

I think it will be a true test of how hardcore Sox fans really are, how many of them were just around long enough to see this curse end.

I mean, it is a huge part of the team's lore, but it's not everything. The true fans are the ones who are happy that the Sox won the Series, regardless of how long it took.

Easier for you to say from elsewhere... :)

Eh, I guess I don't.

Anyway, I fixed that annoying glitch with the html code showing up next to the top graphic. It would seem that font altering code in the TC title is a bad idea, for future reference.

Weltall... you do have a point though. As always there are lots of fair-weather fans who will abandon the team quite quickly... bandwagon fans always appear, and especially when it's a team like the Red Sox. So plenty of fans will just think 'cool the Sox won" and go on being the same... I was more specifically talking about the hardcore fans.

All right---I'll make a deal with you:

Tonight I will pray (honestly) to Jesus; if the Red Sox win the world series, I'll say to him, I will:

1.) Never speak out against religion in TC again.
2.) Formally admit the possibility of his existence in a binding edict.
3.) Formally apologize to all Christians around the world here at TC in an edict.


...but...

If we don't win,

all I ask of you (the Christian community here) is that you be more flexible and understanding with me and my anti-religious frustration. That's all. More understanding.

Deal?
Originally posted On Friday, August 27, 2004.

You can start with me.

First off, if Darunia doesn't believe in God, then he can't possibly honestly pray TO God. It's not possible.

Second off, again, you can't dictate edicts or terms with God. You can't say "if you do not wish for me to burn this house down give no sign" or something like that. It is akin to walking up to someone and saying "if you don't want me to punch you, say so", and then when they just ignore you and walk off, somehow feeling justified in punching them saying "BUT I DEFINED THE TERMS! I AM THE BOSS OF THE CONVERSATION AND BY STATING TERMS, THEY ARE IN EFFECT, THAT'S JUST HOW POWERFUL I AM".

So, honestly this really doesn't mean anything.

I never expected him to actually honor it anyway, because it was a pretty dumb thing to write...

I know the reasons it was good we won (like in the other thread), but ... my reservations still exist... This NY Times article says it well.

This quote by Theo Epstein (Sox GM) says what I was saying earlier perfectly. And as he says, it isn't a joke... it's a serious issue.

"They're going to be heartbroken at not being heartbroken," said Mr. Epstein, a novelist who is chairman of the creative writing department at Boston University. "It's not just a joke. That's what's made us unique. We were the Boston Red Sox that never could win."

I honestly doubt that any other fans really understand what this means to this region.

With Nothing Left to Win, Fans of Red Sox Suddenly Feel a Loss
By PAM BELLUCK

Published: October 29, 2021

BOSTON, Oct. 28 - It didn't take long to go from ecstatic to existential.

Having waited 86 years for a World Series championship, Bostonians found themselves on Thursday swirling with elation, but also scratching their heads.

What are Red Sox fans to do when the angst of being one of the world's greatest underdogs is gone?

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"I'm having trouble dealing with it," said Mike Andrews, who played second base for the Red Sox in 1967, when they lost to the Cardinals during one of their many close-but-no-cigar face-offs.

"You're just kind of caught saying, 'What's next?' " said Mr. Andrews, who now leads the Jimmy Fund, a cancer organization in Boston that is the team's principal charity. "I don't want to say it's a letdown. But it's certainly something you let become part of your life and it's gone now, and we need to come up with something new."

Bostonians have never been baskers, and the afterglow of the Red Sox' extraordinary World Series triumph over the St. Louis Cardinals has caught more than a few people without their psychological sunblock.

"I wish I were able to be more relaxed," said Nathan Levin, 98, who remembers the last time the Red Sox won, in 1918, a time when he used to walk five miles to Fenway Park, wait outside the players' entrance, and once got ushered into the ballpark by Babe Ruth himself.

"What it feels like for a 98-year-old man to sit here and watch the Red Sox win it all?" said Mr. Levin, who now yells at the television and second-guesses the manager from his home in West Palm Beach, Fla. "I lived for them all these years. After 1918 and waiting 86 years for this team to do it all again is beyond words for me."

But, he said, "Now it's over, what are we going to do next?"

Even Leslie Epstein, whose son, Theo, is Red Sox general manager, feels the tension inherent in having a championship team in Boston.

"They're going to be heartbroken at not being heartbroken," said Mr. Epstein, a novelist who is chairman of the creative writing department at Boston University. "It's not just a joke. That's what's made us unique. We were the Boston Red Sox that never could win."

Mr. Epstein, who has lived for 26 years in the Red Sox Nation, pointed out that A. Bartlett Giamatti, the former baseball commissioner and avid Red Sox fan, once said that Fenway Park was the place to understand Calvinism in America, to learn that people sometimes fail and that failure can build character.

"There's a crack in Calvinism now," Mr. Epstein said. "Now, we're going to have to find something else. Maybe Bostonians will be secretly wishing for a Kerry loss so they can wail about that."

For the next few days, of course, most fans will be reveling proudly, especially at a giant parade on Saturday that will wind from Fenway Park to City Hall and is expected to draw more than three million people, according to the mayor's office.

And for some the victory can be seen as a harbinger of miracles to come, not just on the ball field.

"Suddenly all things seem possible," said Samantha Power, a Pulitzer Prize-winning expert on genocide at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.

"For ordinary people who sort of thought, 'Maybe I'll never get that promotion,' maybe they think now anything can happen," Ms. Power said. But she also recognizes that she and many others will never feel quite the same about the Red Sox and about baseball.

For example, this summer, when Ms. Power traveled to Sudan to learn about the killing in Darfur, she listened to most Red Sox games on the Major League Baseball Web site in the middle of the Sudanese night. Stopping for a night in Paris on her way back, she dashed to an Internet cafe in time to hear the eighth inning of the Red Sox playing the Yankees.

"Would I next year go to an Internet cafe at 4 a.m. to listen to a Yankees-Red Sox game?" Ms. Power said. "I don't think so. The stakes of it just seemed higher because of the underdog role. It just felt bigger then."

And as the writer and baseball aficionado David Halberstam said Thursday, "Some of the magic has probably been snatched away.''

Like the lunar eclipse that turned the moon red and then swallowed it up during the fateful game on Wednesday night, this Red Sox victory strikes some fans as a little supernatural. Everywhere, people are talking about feeling changed, about venturing into uncharted territory.

Richard Berlin, who runs an insurance brokerage firm in Peabody, Mass., cast it in 12-step language.

"It's just like the alcoholic who frees himself from the bonds of drink and says, 'Now I can figure out who I want to be,' " Mr. Berlin said. "We're the Red Sox Nation. Maybe we'll need to be the Prozac Nation, but I hope that's not the case."

Many wonder whether fans will turn into unseemly braggarts, in particular taking the opportunity to lord it over Yankees fans as payback for years of pinstriped abuse.

"A team that loses in some ways is going to be easier to identify with for most Americans than one that wins," Ms. Power said. "Are we going to become that which we can never imagine being? Are we winners now, and does that make us sort of less empathetic, less humble? That's what being on the other side of the jackboot for 86 years leaves people able to do. Yankee fans don't feel for what we've gone through. Are we going to become like them?"

Mr. Epstein does not think the transformation will be too drastic. "With the first ball that goes under the third baseman's glove next year, all will be normal," he said. "It will still be the grumpiest city in America."

Ms. Power sees a chance for a city to lighten up by removing its chip.

"Maybe it will just become about a baseball rivalry instead of a humiliated city," she said. "It could make baseball less about the meaning of life and more about just baseball."

And, she said, almost as if to reassure herself, "that wouldn't be such a bad thing."

Katie Zezima contributed reporting for this article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/sports/baseball/29boston.html?oref=login

I never expected him to actually honor it anyway, because it was a pretty dumb thing to write...
I know...neither do I. Still pretty funny though.

I honestly doubt that any other fans really understand what this means to this region.

Talk to me when you haven't even gotten to the World Series in 50+ years. The Cubs getting to, let alone winning the World Series, would mean an incredible amount to the Chicago area, and the legions of Cubs fans around the country.

Okay, sure... but I know it's a stereotype, but it seems like while Cubs fans definitely care about the team it isn't as deep -- cheer them whether they're winning or losing... but at least they are fans, so okay. Chicago fans well might understand (the White Sox haven't had any more success either!). But anyone else?

Yea; I hope the Cubs win in '05, and the White Sox in '06.
And the Yankees never more! :evilha:

It is nice to have a 1-0 advantage over the Yankees in this millenium, isn't it... (2000 is NOT in the 21st century!)

The White Sox don't deserve to win. Their curse isn't simply from bad luck, yunno.

Yeah, the White Sox ownership has never really treated the team as a big-market team. They always say they will spend more on the team when more fans show up to the games, but it doesn't work like that. You need to put a good product on the field to draw so more fans aside from the hardcore Sox fan base. I know White Sox fans would hate this, but they need to appeal to Cubs fans instead of playing up the "Cubs suck" mentality.

I think the White Sox' curse has a bit more to do with 1919... if you want to look at curses that is... if you want to look at reality, then sure, it's because they underfund the team and then say that they can't pay until people start showing up... but as you say people won't show up until they are good. And given the White Sox, it'd probably require repeated success to make much of a dent...

White Sox should maybe have a fresh start... get a new logo, new uniforms; try and appeal to a newer audience. The way they are now, a long-time loser, with nothing great to speak of, they need to---do something. Or maybe I'm wrong.