Oldboy

Okay, I finally watched this movie [which is Korean, for those who don't know] and all I can say it...wow, this is unlike any movie that has ever been made before. I really don't know where I can possibly start talking about this movie. Giving a synopsis doesn't even begin to accurately describe this movie at all.

This is not an overly violent movie per se, but the way in which the violence is shown it's more difficult to watch than all those gore-fest movies, it's a kind of violence that makes you feel as if your watching it happen in real life. And it has some of the longest continuous shots that I've ever seen. There's one scene where the main character fights a bunch of guys in a hall way that takes at least 3 or 4 minutes. All one shot. Insane, to say the least.

And the story, wow, the story, it's all kinds of unpredictible. Nothing that I thought would happen, ever happened. And every I thought couldn't happen, did. It's a brutal story, made even more brutal by the characters that populate it. It has a bad guy that through the whole movie is nothing but pure evil, who kills without remorse and who is constantly houding the main character and making his life a living hell, who manipulates without a second thought, and yet...at the end you are forced to sympathise with this man that you have hated for the entire movie. The driving force behind the events that occur and the twist at the end, are just...I don't know how to accurately portray what will likely be going through you mind, but it's crazy, it's bizarre, and it's twisted beyond belief.

This movie...well I don't know what else I can say, except watch this movie if you get the chance. It's worth it if you can stay till the end.

*soon to be followed by OB1 screaming "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" followed by random image*

Haha, yeah. Great movie, innit?

Now you need to see the director's previous movie, Sympathy for Mr Vengeance. The movie is far more brutal than Oldboy (though I like Oldboy more), and I mean that in a psycholigical sort of way. Not that there isn't any violence in the movie--there is--but it's nothing like Kill Bill or whatever. It hits you on a much deeper level than anything like that could. The upholstry of the couch you're sitting on will practically be in shreads by the time you're done with the movie. Absolutely heart-wrenching.

Watching Oldboy is like having a large man hit you repeatedly in the face...but no necessarily in a bad way.

Haha, yeah. Great movie, innit?

I don't know, for some reason "great" just doesn't seem like the right word to decribe, and frankly I don't know what word does. Some word that I've never heard of before and have no idea what it means. That having been said, I'd probably have to put it at the very least in my top ten list.

Told ya so. :P

It's movies like Oldboy that make me love Asian cinema so damn much.

Next you should see:

SFMV (mentioned above)
9 Souls (Japan)
Public Enemy (S. Korea)
JSA (S. Korea, also from Chan Wook-Park, the dude that made Oldboy and SFMV)
Save The Green Planet (S. Korea)

I think you might have seen some of those already, though.

Told ya so.

I never said that it wouldn't be good! Just that it wouldn't be better than Kino's Journey. I'll have to watch it again before I can make a conclusion either way.

JSA (S. Korea, also from Chan Wook-Park, the dude that made Oldboy and SFMV)

I've got that setting in my room, I haven't got around to watching it yet.

I never said that it wouldn't be good! Just that it wouldn't be better than Kino's Journey. I'll have to watch it again before I can make a conclusion either way.

What are you serious? You still can't decide if Oldboy is better than that little cartoon?

What are you serious? You still can't decide if Oldboy is better than that little cartoon?

You've only seen one episode! I've seen the whole thing! Take that, subspace! Besides, calling Kino's Journey a little cartoon lowers it to the level of the average American animated series and is therefore an INSULT to it's beauty and intelligence of design. Kino's Journey is an amazing series and one which I have watched several times through and continue to view as being like THE greatest anime series I've seen. I can't, without futher viewing, place it above a series that good.

...

Now watch the rest of it before I crush with extreme prejudice!!

Anime means cartoon! I don't care what you silly anime fans say, anime means CARTOON!!!

:p

Anyway, Kino's Journey is many times more intelligent and has a much more beautiful art style than any American animated series that I've ever seen. The thing is the average American animated series just isn't that great. There are some great comedy series, like Family Guy, Futurama, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and so on, but that's not where the problem lies. The problem is that when it comes to INTELLIGENT animation with DECENT ART is usually only found on the other side of the pond, at least as far as series go. I'd really like to see American series get better in that respect, but so far there hasn't been much progress. One problem with that is that American animators seem to think that if they copy the CHARACTER DESIGNS from Japanese animated series that they can also capture the appeal of those same series, but it just doesn't work. Japanese animated series tell a COMPLETE story, usually within the confines of 26 episodes, instead of what just about every American animated series does, which is to generate more and more episodes without really getting anywhere. Add into that the fact that most American animated series are targetted towards an audience that is 12 and below, which means that an intelligent storyline problem isn't going to happen. You likely won't find anything thought provoking or emotionally stirring in those series. Another problem is that most series are just comedy series and very little else. There's little in the way of action, there's no mechas [well...there is that one series], there's very little science-fiction [nothing of the series nature anyway], there's very little in the way of romance, and I could go on but I think I've gotten to the point. Well, I turned this into a rant anyway.

There's one Japanese series that I'd like to talk about for a second. It's called Azumanga Daioh, which doesn't really mean anything, and it's about schoolgirls who...go to school. That's it. And yet it's such a wonderful series, even achieving something of an absurd sort of beauty. It's funny at times, and touching at other times. I've never seen a series from America that's even close to being as great as AD at what it does.

Ya know, I'm sorta sick of how Adult Swim just calls their anime the "action block", as though all anime is about fighting. I can see why one could get that impression. I mean, the only anime they show has fighting, like the only thing that ever really happens on Earth is the fighting. They need to bring over shows with zero physical attacks at all, totally emotional. I know they have them! GR totally specified one!

Oldboy has two votes... I guess I'll eventually see it if I ever get the chance, ever.

I'll say this. GR never said it would totally suck, just that he hadn't seen it yet and couldn't say either way until he did. I'd say any other opinion would be illogical.

It's not like every anime on Adult Swim is like Dragon Ball Z where they have 9 out 10 devoted to increasingly unbelievable fights. They have plenty that have a small amount of "fighting" intermixed with emotion and/or philosophy of a kind, like Ghost in the Shell and Full Metal Alchemist. Another good one that aired recently was Witch Hunter Robin.

I agree with you though, that AS could use a bit more variety in their anime.

Oldboy has two votes... I guess I'll eventually see it if I ever get the chance, ever.

If you want to see it anytime soon you'll have to import it. They're making an American version of Oldboy [joy!] in 2006 so it probably won't be released before then.

Yeah I know. They have some good stuff there. I'm liking Full Metal. I'm not saying they are like aweful or anything, I'm just saying variety would be nice. (Honestly though I found Witch Hunter Robing a bit too... typical for my tastes...)

Oldboy will be released on U.S. dvd sometime this year.

I'll say this. GR never said it would totally suck, just that he hadn't seen it yet and couldn't say either way until he did. I'd say any other opinion would be illogical.


Yeah I know, I was just messing with him.

Oldboy will be released on U.S. dvd sometime this year.

It's a miracle. I'm suprised that they're not going to try to use it to promote the American verson.

Yeah I know, I was just messing with him.

:shake:

Oh so... GR the version you were talking about wasn't just some translation, they are actually remaking the entire movie? Huh... Well we'll see how that goes...

As it is, if they are releasing an english version this year, then I should be able to see it.

Justin Lin is doing the American remake, but it won't be out anytime soon. He's a good director, though, which is why I'm sad that he's wasting his time remaking a movie that doesn't need to be remade. I find it incredibly sad that studios think that American audiences will refuse to watch foreign movies that aren't martial arts flicks. They may be right, but still...

Remaking this movie makes zero sense. If the remake stays true to the original then it's not going to attract a very large mainstream audience. And that audience would most certainly rather see the original version. So the only solution is to make a watered down version of the movie, which would completely ruin it. And no matter how talented a filmmaker Justin Lin is, he cannot compare to Chan Wook-Park.

And supposedly the part of Oh Deasu will be played by Nicholas Cage who, while a fine actor in his own right, I just don't being able to adequately fill the role.

That's just a rumor.

It's also really idiotic that Martin Scorsese is remaking Infernal Affairs. There is simply no need for it.

Sure there is. Foreign people talk funny! Also, Americans like lip synching and also don't like to read.

:D

I fear you may be right...

:(

It's sad how we treat foreign films over while our movies are constantly in the top ten every week in Japan.

Why would they be interested in what we have to offer? What's the last good movie we made? Lemme start counting the months since... Nuts, counting is hard, I'll sit in front of the TV... Nuts, remote just out of reach... eh this show isn't that bad... Hmm, an infomercial. You know what that is? It's information that you get from a commercial! They can't lie, for some reason I think commercials are all telling the truth.

But really, it is nice to have english voices and having them synch up. I mean, it makes for a better experience. As for english voices, well the thing is, I don't know about you, but when I'm reading I can't focus on the scene at the same time. I gotta pick when to read and when to watch. I read fast enough that it generally isn't an issue, but it sucks to have to rewind a scene because you were busy reading something while something else was happening. Voice actors just need to get better, that's all. Metal Gear Solid has good voice acting, well, sometimes they make poor choices... You know that British sounding captain on the plane in MGS3? You know, he's there the whole game? Well, he's NOT British sounding! I played the demo, the one with the Japanese voices, and he sounds much better. He sounded rough and tough, not like some pansy British person. (Sorry, but that accent really is wimpy.)

Eh, anyway if all I have is subtitles, I'll take it gladly to see a movie I want to see. I won't see a movie I can't understand at ALL mind you (not translated in the least) because, while I'm sure I can gather a few things, I won't be able to get the experience as it was intended at all. I prefer dubbed voices, IF DONE EXACTLY AS WELL AS THE ORIGINAL ACTORS, but so long as I don't miss anything important while reading, subtitles aren't a problem to me. As for lip synching.. what do people expect there anyway? People complain, but they aren't offering solutions. What, do they want some CG to fix that problem? Ugh... that would look terrible... CG, even Star Wars CG, just is NOT good enough to look completely real and seamless there. Just accept that you either will need to read or you'll need to just ignore the lip synching.

That all said, big deal if people don't see some movies. Not like the movies you've seen determine if you are an intellectual or not, it's just fiction after all :D. That said... I do wish people would stop watching karp because watching the wave of terrible movies every year only gets them to make MORE aweful movies. People are too willing to "at least see it before they judge it". I mean, the movie companies don't care if you like it. Once you have payed for that ticket, they have their money. When everyone sees it "just to give it a chance", to the movie houses, that's GOOD ENOUGH. Ya gotta learn to tell what isn't worth seeing from the commericals alone. If the movie stinks, JUST DON'T GO! If the movie stinks... docedo!

That all said, big deal if people don't see some movies. Not like the movies you've seen determine if you are an intellectual or not, it's just fiction after all . That said... I do wish people would stop watching karp because watching the wave of terrible movies every year only gets them to make MORE aweful movies.

That first sentence directly relates to that third one. People should watch good movies instead of bad movies.

And you really prefer dubs? :yipes: No matter how good the dub is in a live-action movie, it's never going to be as good as the original language track. Reading subtitles really isn't distracting once you get used to it and forget that they're there.

Why would they be interested in what we have to offer? What's the last good movie we made?

Don't ask me what they see in our movies, but every week there's about 4 or 5 in the top ten and mostly it's the same stuff that got through showing here several months prior.

So, OB1, are you going to watch anymore of Kino's Journey or will it's magnificence forever evade your wandering eye?

Honestly watching just the first episode of a series will give one about as much info as watching the first ten minutes of a movie. Consider this, would you know that Oldboy is as good as you found it to be if you only watched the first ten minutes?

Never as good? Why not? If all the emotions and subtext were analyzed and conveyed correctly, why couldn't a dub manage to be at the same quality? I mean a number of games I have have excellent english voices, as good as the Japanese voices I managed to hear. Then again, I imagine one could become jaded with the quality one normally expects from a dub...

Because there are very few languages that use the same lip movements. If works in anime because they don't articulate the mouth...ing very well, so you can basically just say whatever and it'll look good. But in a live-action movie? Come on, now. Can you name one live-action movie or show that had good dubbing? Of course not. And that's not even going into the performance part, which makes things even more improbable. There simply isn't a realistic way of all the emotions and subtext being analyzed and conveyed correctly when it comes to live-action dubbing. Heck even when they get the original actors to re-record lines for movies when there's been some sort of technical failure, it often sounds unnatural.

Consider this, would you know that Oldboy is as good as you found it to be if you only watched the first ten minutes?

Pretty much, actually. :D Well, it only gets better, so not quite. But it pulls you in from the start.

would you know that Oldboy is as good as you found it to be if you only watched the first ten minutes?

While it does pull you in from the start, if I'd only seen ten minutes I'd just know that it probably is good and not HOW good it is.

The first episode of Kino's Journey is a good start to the series and it does give you an idea of what you can expect from the series, but it's actually quite weak compared to the second and fourth episodes. After seeing those your view of the series changes quite a bit, I think. So in this case seeing just the first episode isn't really enough to judge the rest of the series by.

I'll watch more when I have time!

Then MAKE time!

How exactly does one go about creating time itself anyway?

Then MAKE time!
Dude I work full-time, go to college, and make games on the side. If it weren't for work I'd never post here.

That's what night time is for, OB1! You think that's for sleeping?!

How exactly does one go about creating time itself anyway?

That is so incredibly easy to do. All you have to do is bake a cake in the time-oven! BAM! Instant time.

Ya know, Kingdom Hearts has better English voices... well namely because they use a lot of the original voice actors from the various Disney movies... But I see what you mean, the voices matching the lips does bring something other than just doing excellent acting can do.

KH is animation. ;)

Things are usually best in their original language... and as for subtitles, I have no problem with them. I don't find it hard to watch both the subtitiles and the film... I don't know, just watch more subtitled stuff? You get more used to it. Though I did pretty quickly.

I love Cowboy Bebop dubbed. It makes sense, though. But something like Samurai Champloo? No, because it takes place in Japan. Even if it is a crazy funky version of Japan.

Well yeah they did actually remake the lip synching to match up in KH (for example you can really notice when the character has a mouth 10x the size of Sora, like the sea witch, Ursela. Besides that, I think I did in fact concede that if the lip synching is a major issue, and it may well be in some movies, I dunno, some I really don't care, then that would be the one thing they really couldn't do anything about despite awesome acting. Eh, no matter, just preference I suppose, when it can be done right.

It's only a minor thing just because of the whole seeing the images and reading all the text at once. Yeah, I suppose practice would make perfect but you know. I'm just saying is all, I can enjoy a movie as well anyway, I just wish I didn't have to sorta speed process certain things. Ya know, this is the exact reason I want to learn Japanese.

OB1: Oldboy is Korean

DJ: Japanese, because of this whole thing. No minor things that I, upon retrospect, don't really think about during the movie until some confusion actually comes up. Besides that, no more dealing with shoddy translations.

...

I would suddenly find myself buying a lot of mod chips though...

Not just lip synching... also the way the thing is put together. For movies or TV shows especially -- the thing is designed for one language and when it's a quite different one, like Japanese to English, you have a big difference... Americans in general talk slower, for instance, and the pacing is all different... oh, dubs can be alright. But usually things just seem more natural when they're experienced in the language they were made in.

Some dubs in animes are pretty good, but most are at best marginally annoying. For live-action, though, it's almost always unbearable to watch. I always watch movies like that in the original langauge, but not so much for animes.