Sacred Jellybean

Actually, I read that doctors supply it...

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-alien space marine

Ryan

Drugs are for the weak-minded and the weak-willed

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EdenMaster

Amen.

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Dark Lord Neo

Depends on the juristiction. For example in Canada they get a permit saying that if they want they can grow it for their own use

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A Black Falcon

Lots of things are "fun" that shouldn't be done. Drugs are one of those. Comparing it to sports? Uhh... sports don't slowly kill you... drugs do. Any drugs. They should all be either illegal or perscription...

Absolutely.

Of course, as Karl Marx said, religion is the same (remember, "Religion is the Opiate of the Masses"). One thing I agree with him on, at least.

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Sacred Jellybean

Baseball's for the weakminded. I mean, honestly, who can actually manage to stay entertained by hours of watching person after person have a ball hurled at them in attempt to hit it with a stick, only to then run around bases set up in a diamond formation? What's the point?

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A Black Falcon

I watched parts of both ends of the Red Sox' doubleheader with the Pirates (it was the first time the Sox and Pirates have played in the regular season since the first world series in 1903...)... fun. I always like watching them, and watch parts of almost every one of their games... I often don't watch the whole games, but keep checking back and watching some of it while in between I watch or do something else. Though it often is a lot of fun to watch whole games...

None of the rest of the sports ever intrest me enough to make me even think about watching whole games, though.

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Ryan

Karl Marx was completely full of shit.

Jesus Christ's Crazy Capitalists 1, Karl Marx's Krazy Kommies 0

I don't know that either.

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alien space marine

a very sad sight indeed.

http://www.northernalliance.ca/gas_...es/image002.jpg


This kids sniffs gasoline 24/7 , a hole gang of them are addicted to it even despite goverment attempts to detox them.

All of them suffer from brain damage from breathing powerful chemicals on a daily basis.

Sure we could say its their right to poison themselves , but that would be careless of us ,atleast out of 50 kids , 2 were rehebilitated.

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A Black Falcon

Sniffing gas is like sniffing paint, or butane, or something... all it does is kill your brain cells. If you do it enough you will end up severely mentally retarded. Quite literally.

As for Marx, I've said it before -- his ideas sound great and would be perfect if not for human nature. I know you are selfish and don't want anyone being equal, but the whole POINT of my argument is that that is EXACTLY what is stopping it from working -- and if people were perfect no one would feel that way!

So it was funny before when your posts in rebuttal to mine just proved my point better.

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Darunia

As hazardous as this shit is, does anyone REALLY have the right to tell them they can't do it to themselves? It's close to the suicide argument in that respect.

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alien space marine

They were only 16 and even as young as 8.

Gasoline wont kill you unless you drink large quantities of it.

Secondly these kids were neglected by their parents and lived in slums.

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Sacred Jellybean

What idiots. And to think, this might not have happened if weed were accessible to these children! Smoking weed certainly isn't as destructive as inhaling fumes. This is in jest, though, as I don't condone children using any potentially addictive and destructive substances. It should be up to the parents to stop this, though, not the government. I don't think my freedom to be responsible for my own body should be taken away so the parents of children have to do less work.

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alien space marine

The problem with these kids is that there parents abused heavy drugs themselves and neglected their own kids.
It waisnt just the goverment that intervened it was the tribal first nations inuit council of elders.

Now this thread started out as marijuna but I thought it would be appropiate to show other addictions.

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A Black Falcon

Maine's expanding its antismoking in stores law to include bars... up to now any bar who doesn't let people under 21 in could allow cigaretts (as opposed to restaurants, where it isn't allowed anywhere), but not anymore. Now just private clubs and the like can allow it... which is great! The more they restrict it the better.

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Dark Lord Neo

Way to go main, they just need to ban it in private clubs too

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alien space marine

Maine is my neighbor , its a fucking shit hole.

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Dark Lord Neo

and New Brunswick isn't?

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alien space marine

No were alot better off , they are way poorer then us on average.

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Ryan

Well, not exactly. See, the reason I don't want everyone equal is that not everyone deserves to be equal. Some people just have natural superiority over others, some being smarter, stronger, faster, more willing to work, or what have you. You could in theory force everyone to be equal but those natural deviances in intelligence and physical prowess would defeat it. It was Karl Marx's idea to make everyone a peasant worker, and to eliminate the hated intellectual, which is an incredibly terrible thing to do. His ideas might have been done in good faith but the fact is, in application and in simple theory they completely suck, partly because inequality is part of human nature, and the flaws in the communist idea itself, that everyone should be equally poor as opposed to equally wealthy. If you want to make a socially equal plane, it would be far more beneficial to strive to make EVERYONE intellectual instead of making everyone a virtual slave drone like Marx envisioned.

Marx's communism, if it matched his vision, would reduce humanity to nothing more than a large ant colony, sans queen, and would rob everyone of their property, sovereignty, and even basic individualism, and of course that would lead to a huge, stagnant culture that would be so fragile that the slightest deviation could bring it down.

If that's Marx's idea of perfect, I'll continue to be a flawed human being and enjoy it's many benefits. Communism is a terrible idea in practice, and a terrible idea in theory, and thank God we're too flawed for it to work

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Ryan

Yes, I want more government restriction over my life! Way to go, totalitarianism! Nothing better than losing my rights because a small minority of people are offended!

Here's a better alternative: If the smoke bothers you, DON'T GO WHERE PEOPLE SMOKE.

Like I said, I can't stand smoking, but that doesn't mean I want to infringe upon others' enjoyment. It doesn't bother me THAT much.

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Sacred Jellybean

Agreed. I actually used to be for stricter tobacco laws when I was younger, mostly because of influence from my mother, but I definitely agree with this (I thought I'd point that out, as me agreeing with Weltaii doesn't happen very often in these arguments ). Who am I to tell another person what he/she can do to his/her body when and where? Smoking may be obnoxious to some, but segregation takes care of that.

I remember that my mom used to make this analogy that she read somewhere, "Well, that's just like having 'Peeing' and 'No Peeing' sections in the public swimming pools." That's silly, though... only anti-smoking zealots are offended by the notion that somewhere, someplace nearby, someone is enjoying a cigarette.

It should be up to the establishment whether smoking should be allowed inside or not, not the government. IMO, the most the government should be able to do is force the implementation of smoking segregation in *public* establishments.

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-alien space marine

alien space marine

We used to have it that way in our town , At a Tim hortons ( donut shop) They seperated smokers and the nonsmokers with a glass room to keep the smoke inside the smoking area, it was a good idea at first,The problem was that circulation inside the glass containers were pretty bad for the smokers themselves unlike a open area the smoke kind of stayed in one spot and accumulated , I used to get a kick and look at how yellow the smoking room was compared to the rest of the place.

Some shops had the smoking located were you had to go to washroom so you had no choice but to suck in that shit to go for a pee.
But all those segregated boxed in smoking rooms costed the stores extra money in sanitation and they had to be constantly renivated, So they decided to ban smoking in public all togther.

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Fittisize

Smoking should only be done only with those who don't mind it at all. It should not be done in public at ALL.

Sacred Jellybean

Two-and-a-half-years? Aw, hell no. I've refined my self-confidence and debate skills since then (I'm the president of my school's chapter of NORML - National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws ), so I'll revive this topic (especially since there's been a frenzy of topic-revival going on in the past week). It randomly crossed my mind, so I decided to look at it again. Be prepared for a monolith of a post that's usually unlike me (since it's a topic that interests me; unfortunately, my interest in video games has waned in the past few years). Sorry for replying to posts from so long ago, as your viewpoints may very well have changed, but I saw some things that couldn’t go unanswered.

To me, "drug problem" encapsulates more than just the damage caused to the user. I won't argue about the legalization of all drugs, because I'm still quite ambivalent on the subject, but there's clearly a problem wrong with the policy of locking up non-violent drug offenders. Most drugs are linked to crime because they exist in the black market. Addiction is also certainly a problem with hard drugs, such as heroin, cocaine, and crystal meth, and I could see how theft and armed robbery is an issue with that. I think that's the extent of the argument I agree with, though. With controlled dosages, over-dosages would be a thing of the past, unless proper administration was circumvented. Purity would also no longer be a problem, as the FDA would treat these substances like our currently legal drugs. Also, if they were carefully regulated, a person could have a greater chance of intervention if the habit goes out of control. Of course, as a personal choice, I would never take a highly addictive drug. The libertarian in me says that drugs should be legal, but my compassion for fellow-man says otherwise.

I know you're not around anymore, but you're an asshole. I shouldn't have expected more from you. "OMG HE USES POT HE MUST BE A BURNOUT LOSER DUMMIEEIEEE!!!!11`1" As a regular cannabis smoker of more than 3 years, I resent that, you fucking idiot. I'd be more willing to take advice from a flower child who's lost his mind from taking too much lsd than you, buddy.

What a stupid ad. Kids shouldn't be smoking to begin with. I don't see how anyone could be high enough to willingly shoot himself with a gun, unless an emotional disorder (say, clinical depression) were exacerbated while under the effects of cannabis (in which case, he shouldn't be taking drugs that adversely affect his condition to begin with). The ad was clearly created by people who have minimal (if any at all) experience with marijuana.

Unfortunately, you can't blame drugs on your lack of grammar and logic.

Don't be so quick to put alcohol and grass into the same category. It's easy for me to hide the fact that I'm high, but it's typically easy to spot a drunkard within seconds of witnessing him.

Wow. Just, wow. Not only does that reek of (willful?) ignorance of the Temperance era, but it completely lacks compassion. Drug addiction is a disease, not a crime. The massive failure known as the War on Drugs should tell you that harsh sentences don’t stop people from using substances. Legislating morality of actions that don’t harm others is quite difficult, and in the case of addictive substances, people don’t even care as long as they get a fix.

Maybe… because… people… enjoy it? I’m going out on a limb here. Fast food is also unhealthy, but people still eat it, either out of convenience or enjoyment.

A common misconception not supported by facts. Marijuana is sold in small amounts in Amsterdam, and if I correctly recall, they have LESS of a percentage of people who smoke cannabis (at least a smaller percentage of teens – I’ll find a reference, if you wish).

Truth is, you’re already having your tax dollars wasting money on locking people up for a drug that’s hardly even a social hazard.

Good thing we're not talking about morphine!

Good thing anecdotal evidence is hardly pragmatic or empirical. The gateway and amotivational myths have never been proven by sound science. Your friends sound like idiots (they’re also minors using drugs, something I don’t condone). I can counter that with the same amount of credence with the fact that I’ve never met a single person (and this is out of dozens of potheads) who have stolen to support their habits.

What about tequila, vodka, rum, everclear, etc? What about schwag (low-potency weed) or middies (moderate-potency weed)? Why am I even replying to this?

THC metabolites stay in your system days after you’ve smoked. The high from cannabis typically only lasts a couple hours max (depending on dosage, potency, etc, of course).

…are you serious? Really? Ooookay… people like to alter their consciousnesses for a variety of reasons, most among them are relaxation and curiosity. I’m hoping that was rhetorical, though. Pot doesn’t make you more stupid (haha, I love irony) unless heavily abused (being high every minute of every day) OR kill you.

Ah, I can’t even address this type of ignorance from a poster who no longer visits.

That holds no relevance to marijuana, but it is indeed sad. Some people are just plain stupid. Research the things you put into your bodies, folks.

That’s too bad, buddy. I think people who don’t smoke weed are missing out on a very relaxing, amusing, and spiritually-fulfilling hobby. Of course, I don’t get up on a high horse and call them stupid.

There’s that self-righteous and misguided “OMG ALL POTHEADS ARE RETARDS” bullshit again. How about this – I respect your standpoint, and as long as I'm giving thoughtful and reasonable arguments, you respect mine. 'Kay?

Admittedly, you’ve got me there. But don’t forget about sequels!

You can do that with marijuana.

This is a problem with the law, not the hobby. What if the shoe were on the other foot and video games were illegal? What if there were unrealistic commercials depicting people sitting on their couches like zombies, playing round after round of Melee, ignoring their health? Well, I guess you’d be as dumb as me smoking weed for not being a good little drone who believes every single thing our government tells us! I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist, btw, but with marijuana policy, our government is FAR off the mark.

Ahh, don’t you love that? When you get addicted. You clearly have no experience with marijuana, aside from bullshit from D.A.R.E. and concerned parents. Allow me to make this nice and sparkingly clear – clear as an azure sky of deepest summer, clear as an unmuddled lake – POT IS NOT LIKE HEROIN. You do NOT get addicted from a single puff; not even close. However, I digress. It’s my choice what I spend my money on, just like it’s a fashion-freak’s choice to “waste” money on 20 wardrobes, and a gamer’s choice to “waste” money on video games, and a spectator's choice to "waste" money on attending sporting events.

Nope, can’t let this one go. Weed doesn’t make you do stupid things, like alcohol. Pot tends to increase caution and introspection from my experience, and if you take a look at the scientific abstracts or youtube video on driving with marijuana that I list further down the post, you’ll see some evidence on that. I have made the conscious choice to not drive when I was too high, even when peer-pressure was an issue. I have smoked and driven, and have had problems with it less than %2 of the time.

Stereotyping of cannabis smokers does nothing better than reveal the author’s ignorance on the subject. This is probably why I didn’t even bother responding to this before. Jackass.

Don't take all of this too personally, Eden. I still respect you, but if you really believe all this, then I simply cannot respect those particular beliefs. They reek of opinionated ignorance. It'd be one thing if you knew what you were talking about...

It doesn’t kill you in any way. Marijuana is not life-threatening itself. Nope, it doesn’t cause cancer. In fact, there's a NEGATIVE correlation with incidence of cancer (once again, I'll dig up a link if you desire).

Incorrect. As a completely different species of plant, the smoke from combusted tobacco has different effects on the body. Marijuana can perhaps inflict irritation to bronchial tubes, but emphysema and cancer are not an issue.

Not so fast. Sports CAN be harmful. People who have heart problems can be damaged from participating in sports. Some contain flying projectiles. Hunting can be dangerous - just ask Dick Cheney! Football, Rugby, Boxing, and Hockey are considerably dangerous to even healthy and fit people. How about extreme sports, like sky-diving, skateboarding, etc.? And pot doesn’t slowly kill you. There was a woman in India (I’ll find the article if you want) that reportedly lived to be over one-hundred years old who smoked weed every day.

Reality is a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs.

I don't believe that per se, but it's a funny saying nonetheless. How can you make such a statement, though (perhaps you've gained some common sense in the past two-and-a-half years, or at least greater caution to use blanket statements)? Perhaps it could be applied to heroin, something I don't have experience with (and never want it). But marijuana is arguably less harmful than alcohol. I'll propose the same question comedian Bill Hicks proposed: You're at a ball game or concert, and someone's acting really rowdy, violent, loud, and obnoxious - are they high or drunk? Mankind has had an interest in altering his own consciousness for millenia. There sure are a lot of weak-minded and weak-willed people out there for wanting to experience a different and virtually harmless mindset!

Have you ever seen people under the influence of cannabis get into fights? Unless a person is crazy to begin with, I can't imagine him under any circumstances smoking a joint and beating his wife and kids. Alcohol is an intoxicant, in the true sense that it's a toxic substance to your body. Cannabis is non-toxic, and impossible to overdose on. It's LD-50 is estimated to be in a range that's substantially greater than the normal dosage, or even the couch-lock, giggly, incapacitated-because-you're-still-a-newb-and-smoked-way-too-much dosage. You'd sooner die from drinking too much water.

You ever drink too much and feel like complete trash the next morning? Yup, it happens to the best of us who have a few too many. Headaches, nausea, depression, lethargy. You know what typically happens after I smoke too much weed? ...when I go to sleep, I don't awaken for perhaps a few hours later. I got light "hangovers" when I first began smoking, in the sense that I became slightly depressed the day afterwards (and no, not because I didn't have any more pot, so no smart-ass remarks ). They recently passed a meaningless (I'll get into why that's so if anyone here's interested, but probably not) cannabis paraphernalia ban here in Philadelphia. Thank god they're trying to protect children from people who giggle, relax, binge eat, philosophize, and take copious naps! Boy, that deadly cotton-mouth would be the downfall of society if weed were suddenly legalized, let me tell ya.

This is true, and to anyone who wants a reference, I'll be glad to find one for you: cannabis is less physically addictive than alcohol, tobacco, and caffiene. Psychological addiction is another ball of wax, but I'd still say such is comparable to alcohol.

I'm not saying grass is harmless (notice, I used the word virtually before). Moderation is the key, and there are substances out there (alcohol and tobacco included) that are MUCH more difficult to moderate. Do you know what the biggest barrier to easily moderating marijuana is? The fact that it doesn't make your body and mind feel like shit. The fact that you normally don't have to apologize for your unruly behavior the next day. The worst thing that marijuana could do to you is exacerbate predisposed mental illnesses. There is a strong correlation between people with mental illnesses and people who smoke, but correlation is not causation, and I think any reasonable person can agree that those with mental illnesses are more prone feel desire to find a substance that soothes them from their mental turmoil than an emotionally stable person. Marijuana does lower sperm count (but still makes for a poor contraceptive, I'm sure), but that reverses when the user quits. A long-term, heavy user could perhaps experience permanent but insubstantial deficits in short-term memory after quitting, but again, moderation is the key. If that's the worst that could happen from smoking too much, why the hell isn't it alcohol that's illegal? (rhetorical question - it's obvious that cultural significance is the reason it's legal)

If cannabis were legal, not only would we be giving people a better choice in consciousness-altering substances (sorry, I can't bring myself to use the word "intoxicant"), but we'd stop wasting money on non-violent drug offenders, effectively taking a huge cash crop out of the hands of criminals and other members of the black market. Our national deficit is at 8.7 trillion dollars, and I think it's high time we not only infuse some common sense in a rigid and hypocritical drug policy, but help combat our debts. The economical benefits to cannabis legalization isn't even an original idea, either. Milton Friedman, Nobel laureate and all-around brilliant and well-respected economist, supported this idea in a Forbes article in 2005.

For those of you jumping to say "But Dan, if weed were legalized, more people would be toking up and driving killing people and it'd be a huge disaster! What if there are CHILDREN IN THE CAR?!!?"

(sorry to pigeon-hole anyone who would have brought up marijuana and driving, but this is a common and specious argument that appeals to emotions instead of logic)

There are laws in place for drugged driving, in case you haven't noticed. Simple tests given by the police officer should determine if a person is incapacitated to a degree in which operating a motor vehicle is unsafe. How does that contradict what substances should be prohibited? Now, while I absolutely do not condone altering one's consciousness while operating machinery that puts the lives of others at risk, I can tell you with 100% certainty that, given a pair of options that I *must* choose from, I would much rather take a ride with a high driver than a drunk driver (if they're on, roughly, the same level of dosage). I'll include the appropriate references:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/...ETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://www.ukcia.org/research/driving.htm

And, in case your attention span is short:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfcRyruo91Y

Here's a few other myths that I'm willing to dispel, if anyone disagrees:

-Marijuana is a gate-way drug
-Marijuana kills brain cells
-Marijuana causes cancer and emphysema
-Marijuana is a drug without therapeutic value
-Marijuana today is much more potent and harmful than back it the 60s (my father, who has again taken to smoking since retirement on a bi-weekly basis, was there and has told me personally that this is bullshit)
-Marijuana causes amotivational syndrome (perhaps true to a small extent, but I doubt a greater threat than alcohol)

Whew! Okay, I'm done. Sorry for such a long post. I hope someone is passionate enough on this subject, be it a position of concurrence or discordance with my viewpoint, that they'll actually read through it. Hopefully, ultimately, someone will learn something (but being that this forum doesn't contain many drug-users, including alcohol which is most certainly a drug, that likely isn't the case).

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Fittisize

That was the single greatest post in Tendo City history. I'm gonna go smoke a big fucking blunt to that.

Jesus take a bow, you deserve it for single-handedly owning every close-minded holier-than-thou asshole on this site who thinks that smoking weed is bad.

Fuck all you assholes who look down on somebody else because of their personal choices.

Great Rumbler

Smoking pot is evil.

Because:

Pot = Kettle

Kettle = For use in cooking

Cooking = Preperation of food

Preperation of food = Similar to making poision [if you're not good at it]

Food [and food that is poisoned] = Will be served at some point

Poison that is served to people = People die

People die = bad, or "evil" if it happened on purpose

And

Smoking = Fire

Fire = Something is burning

Something burning = Maybe house or car

House or car burning = People die

People die = Bad, or "evil" if it happened on purpose

Equals:

Smoking pot = Poisoning someone and then burning down their house and/or car.

So, if you smoke pot on purpose, then, yes, it's evil. I just proved that with science so it can't be refuted EVER!

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Dark Jaguar

Eh, this childish question again... Yeah this is right up there on my "I really just don't care list" with "why can I go to war but I can't drink?", which is something a person cares about for exactly 3 years and then never again. Suck it up, on both accounts. (Not literally.)

__________________
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

Sacred Jellybean

I'm glad someone else here is sane.

And why, pray tell, is this a childish question? Fighting for liberty and pursuit of happiness, though involving something that isn't a necessity for survival, is far from childish. Maybe this doesn't affect you, but that's no reason to minimize the issue. There's clearly a substantial portion of people who disagree with these laws (last I heard, around 33% agreed with taxing and regulating cannabis like alcohol).

I'm sure you feel passionate about stopping people like Jack Thompson, DJ, because it affects a hobby that you partake in. But suddenly, if someone wishes to pursue another hobby of altering his consciousness, it becomes "childish". I'm sure I could find many, many people (outside our age group, of course) who agree that playing video games is "childish". What makes your hobby any less childish than mine?

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-alien space marine

Ryan

Well, if it matters, my views on the subject have obviously softened in four years.

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Dark Jaguar

Touched a nerve I think!

"Altering conciousness", right. The brain is malfunctioning as you are applying doses you aren't even properly measuring out, nor do you know the actual effect it may produce. No scientific rigor is being applied in this attempt to mess with your BRAIN, the very seat of what makes you you. That's what makes it more childish. I'm sure you are feeling some odd emotions as parts of your brain are triggered to fire in an uncontrolled manner, including the inhibition center of your brain, but this isn't some path to "other ways of knowing", because only empiricism works.

No offense intended really. Honestly, if you want to do certain things to your body, so long as you stay inside and don't operate heavy machinery while the chemicals are in effect, it's fine I suppose. However, when someone goes as far as to suggest completely baseless assertions about it being a path to enlightenment or the key to some weird awareness, or other woo nonsense, that's when I remember that all scientific evidence has shown is that people just sit around with overactive imaginations and certain parts of the brain, such as the sections that allow us to categorize the world around us and mentally create concepts like distinct objects vanish, so you get vapid statements like "I am you, we are all part of everything and it's all seamless MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *cough* AAAAAAAN". It's just a chemical rush, nothing more.

And here's a gem, "don't knock it until you've tried it". Well I can collect sufficient evidence WITHOUT actually trying something to conclude I want no part of it. This is obviously not the same thing, and I in no way am attempting to say that it is as bad or in the same category, but for the purposes of this analogy it works: I can determine just fine from empirical observation the effects of having an arm removed to conclude that I don't want to have anything to do with it. I need not try it to find out if it is "right for me" or whatever nonsense they pass off as "empowerment of the individual" in commercials these days.

In short I'm a cynical bitter shell of a human being who's heart has turned to black coal long ago. Except I'm not and in general am pretty happy go lucky carefree. It's just that things like that anger up the blood for me, in the same way the odd drug law does so for you.

I'll at least note that drug control is certainly a fairly recent development in American history. From the history I've seen and read, it was due to problems with really hard stuff being abused by "Pop" sitting on top of his "His" bed on the other end of the room from his wife using one of those solid metal massive syrenges. It started really causing problems and to prevent an epidemic, laws got passed.

As for what it SHOULD be, well, I just don't care enough to actually give an opinion here. I don't give it much thought and honestly you don't seem to be hindered by it, going by what you are saying.

__________________
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

Sacred Jellybean

Well, that's funny... people have been consuming cannabis for millennia, but users still don't have a way of properly measuring it out, or knowing the actual effects it produces. ...huh? I honestly expected you to present a more challenging argument, DJ...

From http://www.mikuriya.com/cw_depend.html :
Cannabis doesn't inhibit the pathways of neural networks, though. Alcohol and tobacco do, as far as I know, but not cannabis.

__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor.
Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass."
-alien space marine

Sacred Jellybean

I figured as much, but it all felt good to type out anyway.

__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor.
Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass."
-alien space marine

Dark Jaguar

It dosen't inhibit the pathways, it excistes them, but there are specific pathways in the brain that are meant to inhibit things, and if they get overexcited, it results IN inhibitions. Just like how when people get drunk, it inhitibs the pathways in the inhibition center, lowering inhibitions. It's all wonderfully circuitis.

Anyway, I mean that you PERSONALLY have no idea what you are doing. Scientists know just fine.

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"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

Sacred Jellybean

Fair enough, but if this doesn't permanently alter my brain chemistry to a point where my personality changes, intelligence lowers, etc., then where's the harm? My personality, or what makes me ME as you put it, hasn't changed dramatically or at all negatively since taking up cannabis as a hobby. Maybe your policy of how you treat your own body differs from mine, but that doesn't mean I should be restricting from having my own policy. That'd be just as bad as if someone forced you to smoke cannabis.

I don't have a strong grasp on how caffeine or nicotine affect my brain chemistry, but that doesn't make me run screaming in the other direction when someone offers me a smoke or asks if I'd like a small coffee with my donut.

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"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor.
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-alien space marine

Sacred Jellybean

I agree on the point of not operating heavy machinery, but I don't see any reason to have to stay inside. What if my cupboards are empty and I have the munchies? I can easily walk to a diner, order food, etc. without disturbing or harming myself or anyone else.

I never suggested this (although I never said I did, to be fair). On the other hand, altering the way your brain thinks *does* allow you to look at things in new ways. I'm not suggesting that grass will enlighten a man, but it will allow him to see things differently. Whether that's useful varies on a case-by-case basis, obviously.

Agreed - to each, his own. The problem is, people accept propaganda as conclusions drawn from sound scientific evidence, which simply isn't true in many cases.

Nope. We'll likely not change each others' opinions, so I think we'll end in a stalemate regardless of how we pursue the debate.

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"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor.
Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass."
-alien space marine

Dark Jaguar

I hardly "run screaming in the other direction". Is that how you view people who are clean of the stuff, as a bunch of tightwads who don't know how to have a good time? In fact, in the one occasion I have been offered the stuff, I simply politely declined. I will add that the person who offered it was also polite and respected that.

I actually don't smoke nicotine either, and it's beyond me why anyone who grew up in the era where pictures of horribly blackened lungs were routinely given to children as birthday presents would actually want to take up that habbit.

As for caffiene, I usually don't bother with it (in fact I only get the stuff with cocoa at this point, as I hate the taste of everything else with that in there now). I've noticed that some people "can't wake up without their morning joe", which is odd because I'm pretty sure they used to wake up just fine until they got addicted to the stuff. Mind you, that stuff actually is specifically measured out into the drinks it's put in, though for flavor rather than for full effect and it's by drink companies and not medicine companies.

Anyway, not once here have I said there SHOULD be a law, just that I don't much care about forming an opinion on the actual law, and that it's stupid to smoke the stuff. In fact I specifically said what you do to your own body, save if it endangers others, is your own business. That said, I'm free to openly criticize your choice and say your "body policy" or whatever you call it is not very healthy. I mean it's still smoke we are talking about here. It can still cause lung cancer if nothing else, and it isn't nothing else, as it does cause memory issues. But, your choice. You won't die from it, and the smoke is actually less likely to kill you than tobacco, so hey, you've got that going for you.

But seriously, everyone's got some vice or another. lazy's is obvious, I lack basic empathy, you know the usual.

__________________
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

EdenMaster

Rest assured, Beanjo, that I will read your epic post in it's entirety when I have a day or so free.

However, I did read you responses to my post and, though I feel it unfair to use someones three-year-old words against them (pfft, what am I saying, in politics, that's nothing), I will say that my view on the use of marijuana has not changed much. I still have no desire to smoke it, nor will you change my mind, I'm afraid. I've no interest, so waste not your energy.

That being said, what has changed is my viewpoint on those who do choose to partake. I do not feel these people are less than me, stupid, or anything of the like I may have felt those years ago. I've grown more tolerant of others in my wise old age, and if that is how you choose to enjoy yourself then by all means enjoy, my views on your hobby are irrelevant, as yours may be to mine.

Let us agree to disagree, my friend. I still respect you as well .

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A Black Falcon

Mine haven't.

Intelligent people can make bad choices, certainly, but it doesn't make the choices any less bad.

I drink caffinated sodas like Coke sometimes, but don't drink coffee or tea. Even though it's not really bad for you, I'd rather not be addicted to caffeine... (and yes, you are right -- for a while the caffeine helps people wake up, but then they just need it to feel normal... like with any drug, the effect lessens with time but the dependence doesn't unless you break the habit.)

As for the second paragraph... if it affects others (like secondhand cigarette smoke -- I should never have to smell that stuff and have it get in my system! Or even more obviously, drunk driving.) then it is wrong. If you're only hurting yourself it is a somewhat less clear picture, but I do think society has a responsibility to keep people from hurting themselves too much, and this includes efforts like trying to get people off of drugs, suicide prevention efforts, etc. These are good things.

Yes, I know that marijuana 'isn't as bad' as harder drugs. This just isn't that relevant, really. Less bad is still bad!

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