Mon, March 5th, 2007 | #81 |
The funny thing is, I showed Toven a doctor's report that refuted much of his article, and listed dozens of sources for its information (his article listed none), and he dismissed the whole thing out of hand because "the scientists are all potheads", and states that "popular opinion is against pot, therefore it's correct".
The article is : http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/marijua...logy.html#myth6 Toven couldn't hold his dick in a debate.
__________________
|
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #82 | |
Quote:
One such source referenced:
Viewable: [Here] I think I hold my massively giant cock pretty well and your source is rapidly loosing credibility. And yes you so called scientists were all pot heads a pot head organization in fact.
__________________
"I once dreamt that I played "cannon in D", on an electric guitar, like a fiddle, in the style of a ho down." ~ me "You are god to us dream characters. Some of us love you and some of us hate you, and some dream characters want to be left alone." Then he paused and he said "When you are awake, you are a dream character to God. You and everyone else are what God sees when he sleeps." ~ XGM VILLAGE OF CLONES - Latest Film (Watch Episode Today!) - (Visit Channel) Latest Deivant Artwork Broken Matrimony by ~etoven on deviantART |
||
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #83 |
etoven: I'll pick apart your post when I have more time, but I did a search on your source and found that it was marijuana-detox.com. On the right panel of your page, it has a quote by actress Kirstey Alley hawking Narconon, a drug rehabilitation center. That isn't exactly an unbiased source either.
I'll reply to the posts of you other respondents, too, again, when I'm not so busy.
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #84 | |||||||||||||||||||
Okay, looks like I have some spare time before class after all, so let the games continue!
Quote:
Haha, of course not, I was just being hyperbolic. I don't view people who abstain as "tightwads" (I'm sure they have more reasons than financial to abstain ), just as people who have a different preference than me. I respect that choice. Quote:
Stupidity is the reason. There's no excuse for trying and continuing to something you know is terrible for your body. And, second-hand smoke always smelled great. And, I thought it'd be a good social function, me being new to college and everything. Also, I find it relaxing to take a few minutes off from whatever I'm doing to stand outside and puff on something. And *Ted Raimi voice* "Because it's coooooooooool!" (that's a reference from "Battle of the Planets" of Zim fame) Quote:
Cannabis isn't proven to cause cancer. In fact, there was a slightly negative correlation of incidence of lung cancer when they compared those who smoke nothing and those who smoke only cannabis (and not cigarettes). It hasn't been proven to cause emphysema, either. However, cannabis smoke IS still irritating to the throat and can likely cause bronchitis. There are alternatives to smoking, of course - ingestion by cooking it by various means (brownies, cookies, tea, "cannabutter", hash oil, etc) and vaporization, mainly. Quote:
I sure do. Quote:
I figured some people's viewpoints would have at least softened. I won't hold those words against you, but it still felt good to type out. Quote:
Good to hear. I don't care whether another person smokes or not, but it's the condescension by those who don't smoke that pushes my buttons. Quote:
diplomacy++; //Sounds good (sigh, only from a bloody Computer Science major) Quote:
What makes those choices bad in the eyes of prohibitionists is misinformation about the substance in question. Of course, I ought to ask - are you another person in the boat that believes that cigarettes and alcohol should be illegal, too? Why is it a crime to alter one's perception, if he isn't harming anyone? Quote:
That's certainly your choice to make, but if pot were legalized, people wouldn't be walking down the street and smoking it (not ideally, anyway). There will still be public intoxication laws in place, and it would be similar to the fact that in many places, you aren't technically allowed to have alcohol out in the open. Quote:
IMO, people who casually use marijuana (let's say, once a week) simply aren't harming themselves. The harm from grass only comes from A) smoking it and irritating the throat, B) becoming addicted to it (don't forget that physical dependency is hardly present - it's less physically addictive than caffeine) and smoking it to the point where it interferes with one's social life, job, relationships, etc. How likely is this to happen? Well, an estimated 83 million people (37 percent) over the age of 12 have tried marijuana. If cannabis addiction were an epidemic, I think we'd know. Many sources try to make the claim that most people go to rehab for marijuana abuse, but the truth is, many people are SENT there by a judge as part of a plea bargain. The statistic of how many people is then abused, with prohibitionists claiming that people are mostly dependent upon cannabis. See how their propaganda works? Quote:
Many things can be considered "bad", given the proper context. Drinking too much water is bad. Rigorous exercise can cause a heart-attack. Here, let me give you an even better example: (A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000 (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000 (C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now think about this: (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. (Yes, that's 80 million..) (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500. (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188 Statistics courtesy of the FBI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!! (that was taken from a chain-email from people who are anti-gun-control) Once again, given the proper context, anything can be considered bad. ---------------- Etoven: I'm still planning to pick apart your post, but I have class in an hour and need some time for some last-minute preparations. However, I'll answer the part of your post that you actually wrote for now. Quote:
Hold on, there. I've driven while under the influence of cannabis, not "stoned off my ass". I may have been under some influence, but that's hardly a black-and-white issue. Same with alcohol: there's a blood alcohol content level which states use as a threshold to determine when a driver is too intoxicated. Quote:
I'm glad you were there to know how stupid I was being. Which night in particular are you talking about? Quote:
Please, PLEASE tell me you don't actually believe this. Where do you draw your knowledge from - Reefer Madness? Quote:
Ahahahahahahaha!! Hoo-boy, you've never smoked, have you? I can get a good buzz from cannabis going on without being rendered completely oblivious, thank you very much. I can't say the same about alcohol, unfortunately. I can smoke and have intelligent conversations, cook food, do homework (though I prefer to be sober, because I don't get distracted as easily, and feel like I retain information better) and... well, pretty much anything I can do while sober. Quote:
If this is your attitude towards cannabis (completely unfounded and inaccurate and based on myths that have been proven false decades ago), I won't even bother arguing with you. Next thing, you'll tell me that I'll sprout BREASTS because I smoke weed! Quote:
Not entirely clearheaded, no, but I'm nowhere NEAR as incapacitated as you're suggesting. Quote:
I'm assuming you meant "I don't need the personal...", as you've clearly had no experience with grass or grass-smokers whatsoever. Your delusional ideas of marijuana usage seem like they come directly from D.A.R.E. Quote:
On the contrary, you're relying on misinformation and propaganda from a source that makes its money offering drug rehabilitation.
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
||||||||||||||||||||
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #85 |
__________________
My name is Great Rumbler and I'm from the Sub-Human Tractor Planet! ZOOP!! Read my web log. |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #86 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Actually, I've found that taking a couple hits before a round of Melee actually improves my performance. I feel like I'm more into the game, focused better, and I certainly enjoy it more. That's just a personal observation, and I could be wrong.
Only losers lose drugs. Now, to tackle etoven and marijuana-detox.com's arguments: Quote:
Dum-dum-DUUUUUMMMM!!! I suggest you watch Grass, etoven. It slightly biased towards legalizing marijuana, but it addresses many misguided myths. Quote:
I'd like examples. I like to get high and play video games. The only interference comes from short-term memory retention. I also like to get high and philosophize with friends and mine. Even if this were true, it's not like humans are obligated to ALWAYS be readily available to handle complex tasks. Relaxation periods are necessary and healthy to an individual's mental health and emotional stability. Quote:
This is irrelevant. People can blame grass all they want on keeping their willies in their britches, but alcohol is far more likely to cause unsafe sex on its impairment on a user's judgment. Grass does induce an impairment and makes the user horny in many cases, but alcohol is worse, and with grass, rational-thinking isn't very difficult (speaking from personal experience). I would be willing to bet money on an empirical study (a citation of which this excerpt does NOT contain). Quote:
Yet athletes who are tested positive for THC are banned from olympic and other sporting events. Really ingenius drug policy there, no? Anyway, I also highlighted key words from your source that make their statements indefinite and not absolute. Allow me to reiterate that it's up to the user to manage his time correctly. Only an irresponsible weed-smoker will get high before going to work, or attending classes, or studying, or doing anything that ought to require a sober perception for maximum efficiency. Of course, there are people who get high and go to work. Guess what happens? A) They won't get caught, and it won't make a difference, or B) it will show through their work, they'll be seen as incompetent and reprimanded for a mediocre performance (less likey, imo) and perhaps fired. Some people can manage it, some can't. The conclusion? The drug itself is not at fault - the person using it is at fault. Much like guns: guns don't kill people, psychotic killers kill people. Guns are practical when used properly, much like cannabis. Quote:
You probably didn't read my monolith of a post. That's okay, allow me to quote it (and let me tell you, I DO cite my conclusions, and my citations don't include NORML): Quote:
If you won't accept my moral relativity argument (that is, "cannabis shouldn't be taken while driving, but alcohol is worse"), again, my argument is just because some people are irresponsible and drive while under the influence of drugs, it's no reason to penalize those who DO use cannabis properly. Quote:
Gee, ya reckon? Also, users don't "often combine marijuana with alcohol." It's another myth that people don't just use cannabis: they use it in combination with other drugs. BZZT! This is a rough estimate, but I only combine alcohol with smoking about 5% of my total smoking time. The gateway theory has many times been attempted to be proven with actual scientific and empirical evidence, and it always fails. Quote:
They also found that (I'm pulling these statistics out of my ass, obviously - don't worry, marijuana-detox.com probably did the same thing) 45% of people in these accidents had blonde hair. BLONDE PEOPLE CAUSE TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS!! Actually, a better approach would be to emperically measure, in a controlled study, the amount of people who smoke cannabis and drive, then pick out how many of those people have trouble driving. There needs to be studies conducted on people's performance in smoking and driving. Correlation is not causation. 33% seems really high; I wouldn't be surprised if they found THC metabolites in the subject's blood along with other drugs. With no citation to the study, we'll never know its quality. Studies conducted by groups who are out to keep drugs illegal are often biased or intentionally misconstrued. Quote:
From wikipedia.org: Quote:
Quote:
These studies are not cited, and I've never heard anything of this sort. It's a biased source to begin with. Next! Quote:
So if 10-15% of people feel anxious, paranoid, and confused, the other 85-90% should stop smoking and enjoying the feelings of relaxation, euphoria, ecstasy, etc? Here's a better idea: those 10-15% of people can find another hobby that doesn't cause them anxiety. Quote:
Same with alcohol, but (with alcohol) increased significantly. Quote:
Sex causes increased heart-rate as well. BAN CONDOMS! Quote:
From Exposing Marijuana and Myths: Review of Scientific Evidence: Quote:
Quote:
No citation given for the ONE study that concludes this. This is from an interview with a physician by the name of Dr. Lesten Grinspoon (okay, he's an advocate of cannabis legalization, but at least the man is competent and an expert in the field): Quote:
Quote:
No citation given. Here's an interesting piece of news, though: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006560113,00.html It's about a woman in India who's 120 years old (making her a candidate for one of the oldest people on the earth) who smokes cannabis daily. Quote:
Dum-dum-DUUUUM!! Well, smoking isn't the only way to take cannabis. Vaporization produces much of the same effects as smoking, without the harm inflicted from smoke. Quote:
Speculation; no citation given. Given that cannabis doesn't produce lung cancer or emphysema, I think we can all agree that it's misguided to attribute it to the same ailments associated with cigarette smoking, yes? Quote:
I already refuted this. Quote:
This is false. Also from Exposing Marijuana Myths: A Review of Scientific Evidence: Quote:
Quote:
Because people with this problems likely smoke it for emotional relief. That doesn't mean cannabis CAUSED them. People who take anti-depressants are also associated with "depression, anxiety, and personality disturbances". I guess we better rid the world of medication for schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety, etc. Quote:
From http://www.mikuriya.com/cw_depend.html : Quote:
Quote:
People who experiment with drugs are people who generally rebel against society's standards. Correlation != causation. Minors who smoke weed are also more likely to skip class (and would probably have done so regardless), but did weed cause that, or was it an ongoing problem before the user began smoking? Marijuana-detox.com still hasn't proven a thing, aside from self-interest and promotion of a service that makes it's money off of convincing people that they have a drug problem and need treatment for it. I'm not saying people don't have problems with drug addiction, but not everyone does, particularly people who use a drug that's less physically addictive than caffeine, cigarettes, and alcohol. Quote:
Surprise, surprise, still no citation given! Quote:
They never define what "long-term heavy marijuana usage" encapsulates. It wouldn't surprise me if someone who smoked all day, every day eventually had memory problems (though insubstantial - honestly, this is trouble remembering a list of words, for crying out loud). The page concedes that after 4 weeks, normal cognitive abilities are restored. In conclusion, if you don't moderate your pot use (that is, you smoke it every day, all day) for the long-term (something they again fail to define), eventually, you'll have transient memory problems that won't reverse until you quit after a month. Is that really so bad? Quote:
This study requires the participant to admit that he smokes pot to his co-workers. I'm sure there are many closet-smokers that will lie about something like this. Hence, the results are skewed. Quote:
Again, from Exposing Marijuana Myths: A Review of the Scientific Evidence: Quote:
Quote:
It's possible, but it's not all black-and-white. Propaganda sources like these specialize in taking the worst-case-scenario and blowing it out of proportion. Quote:
Irritability, sleeplessness, anxiety? These are hardly qualities of an addiction problem of epidemic proportions. People who have addictions that result in actual physical dependencies become ill without their drug. These problems peak in a week, according to your source, and pale in comparison to quitting cigarettes and alcohol.
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #87 |
__________________
My name is Great Rumbler and I'm from the Sub-Human Tractor Planet! ZOOP!! Read my web log. |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #88 |
Are you trying to make a point by posting propaganda from our uptight, conservative, "Just Say No To Drugs" Reagan Era? I use drugs, yet in my circle of friends, I can bitch-slap everyone who plays me regularly in Melee.
Here is a list of losers, as per that message: Carl Sagan George Carlin Willie Nelson Woody Harrelson Bill Maher Bill Hicks Matthew McConaughey Charlize Theron Jack Nicholson Jon Voit Jennifer Aniston Al Gore Bill Clinton (didn't inhale? Bullshit) George W. Bush Barack Obama Paris Hilton... wait, no, I take that one back Don't these people realize that the fact that they've used marijuana in the past renders their lives useless?! Dumb ol' drug fiends. You try to drill something into their heads, yet they STILL leave their houses to try to make something of themselves. Those stupid fucking pothead burn-out losers!
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #89 |
He dismissed the entire contents of the article I posted before even reading it. Apparently, the doctor who wrote it was a pothead, and so was every one of the scientists and statisticians listed as one of the 70-some sources. I spent almost an hour arguing with him last night about it, and nothing I said was right because 'I was deluded'. And no, he's never come closer to pot than a TV screen.
I just can't reconcile alcohol being legal and marijuana not being legal. It's a horrible double-standard.
__________________
|
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #90 | ||||
Quote:
Well, I guess I wasted an hour, then. Oh well. Some people have their head too far up their ass to realize the truth, but what can you do? The sad thing is, these people vote. Was the doctor Lester Grinspoon, by any chance? Quote:
Irony is great. Quote:
Surprise, surprise. Quote:
Amen, bruddah.
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
|||||
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #91 | |||
Quote:
On that subject, banning all non-hunting guns from America would be an extremely good thing... I know it won't happen, but it would help. I know, 'more guns don't mean more violence', as Michael Moore's gun movie showed (comparing the US to Canada, which also has a lot of guns, and how much less violence there is in Canada), but when you've got a problem on the scale we do, something like that couldn't help but make adifference. Police and such would still be armed, of course, but those people who say 'you need weapons to protect yourself from the criminals who would keep guns if they were banned'... well, many other nations have banned handguns and the like, and they seem to be doing a decent job of minimizing the amount of gun violence. (violence with other weapons would go up, like knives and the like, but those are less easily lethal...) Quote:
The question of harm vs. benefit is a central one. Tobacco is very easy to categorize: in any quantity, it does harm. Smoke one cigarette or breate in some tobacco smoke and you've done permanant damage to your body. Meanwhile, tobacco has no beneficial side-effects that come even remotely close to negating the negative ones. As a result, it should be banned -- or at least cigarettes should be banned; smokeless tobacco is less bad because people using it only be harm themselves, not themselves and everyone around them. Alchohol... despite being by far the most abused and dangerous drug fatalities-caused-by-it wise, thanks to drunken driving and alchohol-fueled agression, in small quantities it doesn't do lasting harm and perhaps in some forms helps, so it probably should be legal -- though the societal problems caused by alchohol abuse are huge, and reducing them is very important. I can think of good arguments on both sides of this question... I'm not sure which I more believe. Quote:
I don't like any drugs when I can avoid them. If I wanted I could be on medication for social anxiety or something, or (lesser) could look more seriously into if some medicine could deal with whatever it is I'm allergic to (that has caused my nose to not be completely clear in seven or eight years now), but I don't, though for the latter the fact that I tried a few for a while and found that they didn't make it completely go away was part of the reason, for the former, it just feels wrong... Anyway, arguments like "it is not much more addictive than caffeine" or "it doesn't really do much more impairment than alchohol at best" are not exactly what I would call things that I would look at as examples of why I should support the thing. Legalize something and more people will use it. As a result, legalization of marijuana would harm the public health with only minimal gain (among that tiny percentage who might find medical gains, and medical use could be approved without general legalization, perhaps, under certain conditions). For instance, Prohibition. While everyone thinks of the speakeasies and illegally made liquor, what isn't as well known is the fact that during prohibition, the number of people using alchohol, and the number abusing it, fell dramatically. The federal government eventually gave up because of public pressures and the impossible task of policing it all in a state of increased criminal activity to serve the people who would not give up alchohol, but overall, drunkenness and alchohol abuse rates dropped appreciably. Once it was legalized again, they began to go back up. Anyway... legalization might well decrease the criminal activities surrounding the marijuana trade, but it would increase the numbers of people using the drug dramatically, and that would NOT be a good thing. Perhaps look into whether it could actually work in certain medical situations (I am far from convinced that there is proof that it's actually needed (that is, that nothing else could help), and set up a legal procedure for those people to get marijuana in a way that would not support crime (buying it on the street and supporting whatever gangs or criminal groups were involved in its production, transportation, and sale), but don't generally legalize. I remember when a few years ago I had a roommate (idiot...)... every weekend he went out with his friends and did marijuana or alchohol (not 21 yet) or both, whatever. He got in trouble with the law once that year (him and his genius friends were on something and decided to enter someone's open room and take something in it. They got caught.) and again later on (after that school year, for smoking marijuana on Main Street, I believe... smart, that!). If I hadn't already been strongly opposed to drug use, that would have done it, I expect... that wasn't my point, though. My point was this -- the whole mindset of "wow, I don't remember what we were doing last night at all, isn't that awesome" makes absolutely no sense to me. You forget what you were doing... so that's a GOOD thing? Uh, isn't that pretty obviously BAD, not good? Yup.
__________________
My Games Collection My Webpage! Currently Playing: Guild Wars (with expansions) (PC), Donkey Kong Country series (SNES), Summon Night: Swordcraft Story 1 and 2 (GBA), sometimes Warcraft III or Starcraft (PC) Mega Turrican and Universal Soldier (Genesis), various other stuff |
||||
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #92 |
Whatever the view on gun control, that Michael Moore guy used nothing but shock value and no actual information. His movies are as anti-reason as anything else. It's about as meaningful as that "Super Size Me" movie, also full of misinformation.
Anyway, that all said, biased reports from this or that site are a dime a dozen, but a few good double blinded studies are self evident. Let's get some of those in here.
__________________
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #93 |
From what I've been reading, the reduced risks are not exactly what you might think. It does not cause emphyzima, but it does have numerous carcinogens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...l=pubmed_docsum Further, more studies DO in fact show reduced reaction times among other cognitive deficiencies. It can be extrapolated that people driving while high are probably about as dangerous as people driving while tired, another dangerous activity (which is legal, but I'd say that's mainly because it's very hard to test for "tiredness". Certainly risking your own life is fine but the line is drawn when you decide to risk other's lives because, you have to get your car home, right? I mean, what do you expect me to take a bus? YOU take a bus!). Anecdotally, I can say that the one time I've played against some people that actually were high (a rare find with the people I hang out with, and actually I haven't seen these people in years), their abilities sank while their confidence in their abilities rose. The game was Super Smash Bros. Melee. Anyway again that's just a personal anecdote. Though there is this study: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannab..._driving4.shtml And for the record, philosophy? I'm sure you had a great time saying things like "what if god is INSIDE us?" or "no I mean like, REALLY inside us" or "yeah... what? no right", but I'd like to hear something using logic (or maybe you have "other ways of knowing") come out of that. Anyway, don't drive high. Just don't. It may be debatable if it should be illegal, and I really don't care much if you have this hobby as you call it, but certainly it's wrong to endanger someone ELSE and I'm in full support of the law in that regard. No hypothetical "well MAYBE I drive more catiously because I know I'm high" nonsense either. The evidence says one thing, you have reduced ability, and unless you have something better than hypothetical reasons why that might not apply while driving, well, just don't drink and drive, drive while very tired, or get high and drive. In all three instances, what's giving a few hours to lose the effects going to do? Even if there's a sudden emergency in the family, that's not worth the risk. You aren't going to be doing the surgery or investigation or extinguising the fire or whatever yourself, so you aren't needed. You can deal with the emotional whatevers later. Oh, you'll need to show some sort of evidence that this whole "turning off your brain" thing is actually a good thing for mental stability (emotions are PART of mentallity, they need not be mentioned seperatly). I do that anyway, and it's called sleep. Aside from that, I really just can't shut off my brain and I'm really not sure I want to. I enjoy thinking about things constantly myself, not that I can help it. Indeed, I can't really stay on a single topic for very long periods of time either.
__________________
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871) Last edited by Dark Jaguar : Tue, March 6th, 2007 at 06:11 PM. |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #94 |
Micheal Moore film was distorted , He tries to say that Canada has easy access to guns. By going to a Canadian Walmart and making it appear as if you can purchase a new rifle over the counter just like you had bought a new pair of shoes, When in fact he would have needed to registry a month in advance do his paper work get a License and then show up. Moore likely did go through that complicated process but the documentary neither states or shows it and leads you to falsely believe getting a gun legally in Canada is as easy as buying a Popsicle.
Then there is the Bank scene now that was staged even says so in the movie trivia. Moore's 9/11 comments are tasteless enough that does deserve to be blown up two holding hot dogs each hand in real life and not just Team America world police
__________________
"The devils Omelet"! |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #95 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Quote:
It tastes good and relieves stress. Those are two benefits. Quote:
You concede that alcohol is helpful in some forms, but why don't you do the same with cannabis? Quote:
Yeah, I don't see any need for medication to treat social anxiety disorder. Therapy, rigorous introspection, and perhaps behavioral conditioning seem more appropriate. Quote:
Don't you consider it a double-standard, though, that we lock people up for cannabis possession and trafficking when it's not as harmful as alcohol? Isn't the fact that it's costly and wasteful enough reason to legalize it? What about the fact that the black market thrives on its illegality? Quote:
As I stated in my earlier post, this is a common misconception not supported by facts. From http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/...-e.htm#_ftnref3 : Quote:
Quote:
I'd call the freedom to possess and purchase cannabis without worrying about legal repercussions is more than a minimal gain. I find cannabis to be a healthier alternative to alcohol, and hence, it would benefit the population to give people a better choice in terms of choosing intoxicants. Quote:
Perhaps, but if you look at the statistics, it shows that rates of drug usage have slightly gone up since the War on Drugs was put into action. Quote:
Not so. Like I've shown, rates of cannabis usage in Amsterdam are less than those in the United States and England. Quote:
Did you even look at the response I gave to you? There have been numerous scientific studies proving marijuana's medicinal value. Montel Williams, who believes that recreational usage of marijuana should NOT be legalized, is a medical marijuana user and swears by its effectiveness. Medical marijuana is not a Trojan horse for legalization. Quote:
Your former-roommate is an idiot. It's not hard to exercise basic caution in keeping cannabis smoking on the down-low, and he failed miserably. Don't use him as a point-of-reference for all marijuana users. I've never been caught with cannabis. Quote:
Done what? Opened the gateway to your failure at life for experimenting with an illicit drug? Clarification is needed... Quote:
I generally forget more of what went on as a result of drinking, rather than smoking. With smoking, it's easy to remember what occurred, because it doesn't kill my brain and put me out-of-control. I don't generally like getting incapacitated either, or having to apologize for my behavior and feeling embarrassed the next day. Quote:
From wikipedia: Quote:
Quote:
That's true, but I'm simply pointing out that it's a logical fallacy to state that cannabis should be kept illegal because people may drive under its influence, when its influence isn't as deadly as a drunk driver behind the wheel. I don't generally make it a practice to drive under the influence unless it's an emergency (and besides, I live in the city, so everything's within walking distance anyway). Quote:
Did you play them while sober, and again while they were high? They could have been poor players to begin with. Melee players like to blow their abilities out of proportion, and the problem is, they're often oblivious to their true level of skill as a result of usually only playing with one group of people. It also depends on how much they smoke. I usually only smoke enough to get a buzz if I'm playing a game, not enough to put me on my ass (though cannabis "putting me on my ass" is a rarity nowadays anyway). Quote:
From that website: Quote:
I'm not saying that getting high and driving is harmless, but I am trying to point out that the level of impairment one experiences is dramatically lower than that of alcohol. Quote:
I'm glad you were present to know the level of intelligence in which I spoke. I don't have any studies to prove this one (and I doubt any exist), so there's no way practical way to convince you. Quote:
From the link you provided: Quote:
Quote:
What if it's urgent that a person is rushed to a hospital, and waiting for an ambulance might compromise the ill person's health? Not everything is black-and-white, but generally, I agree with that sentiment. Quote:
It's common sense that relaxation is helpful towards emotional fulfillment. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, and all that. Do you really want me to search for a study to prove this? How do you justify comparing marijuana to sleeping, or "turning off your brain" as you put it, aside from a few slightly impaired cognitive abilities? I can do just about anything high that I can while sober: play the guitar, play video games, watch movies, etc. It doesn't make me forget things, but rather, helps me relax while thinking about and doing the exact same things. I could have held this exact same debate while under cannabis's influence.
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #96 |
It's not like turning your brain off, be it cannabis or alcohol, if it's moderated. Two beers, or a joint, and you just have your brain tethered to the earth instead of planted.
I think it's quite a nice feeling myself, though I haven't smoked in a very long time.
__________________
|
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #97 |
When you make statements comparing it to shutting off your brain, this is where the "don't knock it until you've tried it" complaint comes in. Would you benefit from reading a book on riding a bike in the same way that you would when actually riding it?
R-(Triple T!!)-an: If you're ever in the area, I'll smoke you out.
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #98 |
I wasn't really making the jump to "turning off your brain", I was talking about relaxation using an expression. I'm disarming the idea that you would need that to relax. Emotions are good to keep under control though. Panic is dangerous, and all that. (On a lighter note, it's fun being in a family with so many emotionally driven sorts, by which I mean they "feel" their way through situations, by which I mean there's lots of really idiotic misunderstandinds and shouting matches and bad decisions involving health care.
Anyway, I don't know what you philosophize about, I was just joking. It basically stems from the fact I've never heard a single philosophic comment that wasn't just totally full of itself and of no actual merit to anyone. I'm pretty sure an ambulance can get you to that hospital a lot faster than your own car. I know I'd rather call one than trust an intoxicated friend to get me there. Here's a fun one. The thing is, if you didn't DO drugs, you would ALWAYS be in a good condition to drive. I can toss that whole "what if there was a medical emergency" scenario right back at you. It's one of those "reversible arguments". Like, when someone says "I don't get why you don't just lend me your liscene! It's not a big deal!" vs "I don't get why you just NEED me to give this to you. It's no big deal.". MONTEL WILLIAMS swears by it? Well he's a BRILLIANT scientist! I mean he certainly knows what he's talking about, he has ACCURATE psychic Sylvia Brown on every week after all! Anyway, the medicinal effect is basically pain relief. I know you want it to be a miracle drug. I mean, lazyfatbum is convinced that beer is the secret of "finding yourself" and wine drinkers sure love reminding me that wine can help lower blood pressure (which is certainly worth the destroyed liver). Again, I don't really mind if you do this. I find it weird that you keep calling it "cannabis". I don't mind calling it by slang. At any rate, as I said my example was pure anecdote, which is of course not based in evidence at all. That's why I linked to that report. I already said it isn't as strong an effect, or really very close at all, to that of driving drunk.
__________________
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
Tue, March 6th, 2007 | #99 | ||||||||
Quote:
I don't recall ever stating that I NEED it to relax. However, I prefer it to relax. Quote:
It's also sometimes good to experience thought patterns an atypical fashion . Panic and dangerous emotions running out-of-control has never been a problem for me. Quote:
It depends on the distance, and other factors. Quote:
It was admittedly a lame example to begin with. Quote:
I don't know anything of his schedule of guests, having no interest in seeing him myself. However, why is it that a user of a particular pain reliever must be a doctor to most accurately know which medication works most efficiently for him? After all, if he reported to his doctor problems he was experiencing with medication A, the doctor would simply prescribe medication B. It doesn't matter if it's Montel Williams or someone much less notorious. I was simply trying to point out a popular example of an ill person who reportedly receives the best results from using marijuana as a medication. Quote:
That, and increasing appetite. Quote:
To be quite honest, it doesn't matter much to me whether it has medical value or not. There's strong enough evidence to show that it's level of harm hardly merits legislation banning it, particularly when there are much more destructive, legal alternatives. I was simply trying to dispel the myth that marijuana has no medicinal value, and that currently legal, prescription drugs will ALWAYS be superior. It may be more anecdotal evidence, but the fact that it's a personal testimony (similar to those witnessed by others who use medical marijuana) and not "a friend of a friend" helps it carry a bit more weight. Quote:
Certain terms, ("pot", in particular) have negative connatations attached to them. "Cannabis" has a nice ring to it, and it's the scientific name, making it seem like I'm smart!
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
|||||||||
Wed, March 7th, 2007 | #100 | |
DJ: If you feel a doctor's testament to the medical benefits of cannabis is more convincing, allow me to quote a physician on the subject.
Quote:
http://www.marijuana-uses.com/essays/001.html This is an excerpt from one of the many essays written by Dr. Lester Grinspoon, a medical marijuana advocate who initially set out to write an objective paper on the harms of
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
||
Thu, March 8th, 2007 | #101 |
I actually found a site that might add some surprising new arguments too the pro Marijuana band.
But use of this drug goes back to antiquity in fact many early Christians and Jewish sects used Cannabis for religious purposes , The Ethiopian orthodox church today actually uses it in the belief that Solomon passed on some secrets of the Jewish priesthood to the queen of Sheba and his many children he had with her,For some reason Marijuana use is involved in it. Another weird Afro Judeo christian sect practicing polygamy and belief in unorthodox scriptures that devout to Solomon, Have heavy Marijuana use, In the Caribbean the group called the Machabees aka Solomites. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Jesus_use_marijuana Found weird cult that is trying to break prohibition on the grounds of religious freedom. Marijuana is used by Hindus, Zoroastrians numerous other people today and in past. The founding fathers grew hemp farms down in Virginia , Today have so much as one molecule of any to do with weed regardless of wither or not it had potent material still present in it gets baned.
__________________
"The devils Omelet"! |
|
Thu, March 8th, 2007 | #102 | |
Quote:
Indeed, hemp was a large economic cornerstone our founding fathers, but as far as I know, they didn't know of any psychoactive properties of cannabis. In case anyone doesn't know, hemp is a strain of cannabis with THC percentage too low to reap any benefits of altering one's consciousness. It was used primarily for its fibers to make into fabrics (rope and clothes, for instance) and paper. Hemp should be legal, but the problem is, it looks identical to marijuana (cannabis sativa and cannabis indica). Right now, there's a bill going through congress to legalize hemp farming. Probably the most well-known religious sect of Christianity to use marijuana are Rastafarians. The religion (according to wikipedia) emerged in Jamaica and accepts former emperor of Ethiopia, Haile Selassie I, as God incarnate (or "Jah").
__________________
"Michael Moore wins points for occasional humour factor. Ann Coulter wins points for Big boobs and a tight ass." -alien space marine |
||
Mon, August 13th, 2007 | #103 |
Something I find amusing is that this whole topic was started with "Recently Canada just decriminalized pot smoking." which actually never happened.
__________________
"La raison avant la passion." -P.E.Trudeau |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|