Dark Jaguar

I'll say this. I play multiplayer games for the social interaction more than the game itself most of the time. Co-op, for me, is fun because my friends and I can make jokes about pretty much everything as we go along and share ideas and strategies and just have a good time, and also yell at each other for stupid stuff now and again. It's all part of the fun. It's why the old "alternating multiplayer" Super Mario games managed to be fun in spite of never actually playing at the same time as the other character. Watching your sibling and being able to talk to them while they are playing that one really tough level and then having your turn when they die and hearing their comments? That's what it is all about for me.

I do however play "blind" games against other people online sometimes, like a game of Starcraft where neither of us say a word the whole match. It is a challenge, and the online multiplayer is a much appreciated first step.

I want to make that clear. However, consider the Melee matches you played against your friends in real time. Wasn't it all the more fun for the comments on how crazy awesome or hilarious that last move was? Wasn't the social interaction what really brought it out? Nintendo themselves have said in the past that they considered that one of the main draws of any multiplayer experience and they weren't sure if that would translate to the online world.

There is where my criticism lies. That is what I consider paramount in having the best possible online experience, and Nintendo themselves were concerned. Unfortunatly, it would seem "protection" won out. The protection solution could have been implemented otherwise of course. A simple parental control to "turn off" online interaction in various games would be all that's needed. What that "off" means would be determined by each game of course, but that's the best method. In other words, such an excuse is wrong. Some here are familiar with a number of bad apples on XBox Live. Yeah, but again, you don't HAVE to have communication on. It isn't forced on you. If I'm in a match against an idiot, I do have the option of just playing with my headset off the whole match. The advantage is when I get in that match against the cool people, the funny ones maybe, and I get to have fun social interaction with strangers for a few minutes. Those sorts of matches make it worth it.

Nintendo made a good move by including online, and this is better than nothing. I certainly will be using it. However, the lack of the social element is a major disadvantage. This can't be denied. In the future I hope Nintendo takes their online support a lot further. Nintendo is certainly capable of it and I would be delighted to play with their own implementation of the other's services.

This is not an issue of "innovation". That's silly. There is nothing unique or original about this implementation. There is no shame at all in copying what has worked just fine for everyone else. If Nintendo CAN come up with an even better way for online interaction to work, that's great. Implement it then, but in the mean time, give us support using the currently very well implemented ways that others are doing. Don't claim innovation when it isn't even there.

Again, online is great, but they really do need to add more in the next game. They really should make it a major focus. Really, you all know what social interaction brings to the party. Don't pretend that element really wasn't all that big a deal. The most fun I've ever had playing games is when I'm with others, and that includes single player.

And THAT is how you do a DJ rant! Quoting random things I've said and a final judgement of "it's stupid" over and over don't cut it!

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A Black Falcon

There isn't much to say other than "I completely agree"...

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EdenMaster

I've said before that it could stand to be improved, yes.

And I agree with you that social interaction is a big part of online play, as I've made dozens of friends playing Counter Strike.

But the issue here is that ABF is willing to completely boycott playing Brawl online solely for this reason.

And that, to me, is foolish and stubborn.

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Dark Jaguar

Yeah I can see that. I think actually using it would at least send Nintendo the message that people want online play.

However, if he tried it and didn't like it and decided not to use it because of that, well I can respect that.

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A Black Falcon

It's not a boycott, it's simply not using a feature that isn't worth using.

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EdenMaster

"Isn't worth using?" Playing a Smash Bros. game online isn't worth using? The thought of Brawling with DJ, GR, DMiller, and/or I doesn't interest you in the least?

***ABF auto-response***

"Not without a bazillion more features. Otherwise it is totally unplayable and will give me cancer to try."

I get social interaction from playing online games. See? I play the games online and the social interaction is a bonus. A mere feature of a greater whole. The GAME is what's important, not whether or not you can hear a 12 year old scream into his mic, not so you can enjoy all the vulgar and racist trash that anonymity of an online game provides, not so I can meet asshole after asshole every server I go into. I play games online to enjoy the game, and to never know what to expect from my opponent. No matter what your deluded mind may think, no bot can ever match playing against a human being. Not even close. At least not in this gen, and probably not the next.

The fact that you can't see past this makes me very sad for you.

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Dark Jaguar

While I agree that I'll be using the online thing, that paragraph there sorta directly contradicts what you said the post above it..,

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EdenMaster

How so? I said that I enjoy social interaction on online games, but the reason I and everyone else is there is to actually play the game.

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Dark Jaguar

Well I mean one second you are saying you've made dozens of friends playing online games and consider the social element the main reason TO play multiplayer to begin with, and the next you say that the social element is no big deal and actually you consider most people online to be jerks you don't need to make friends with.

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EdenMaster

I never said it was the main reason to play. I said it was a big reason to play. I dont go into a server in Counter Strike to meet new friends. I go there to (STAY WITH ME HERE) play Counter-Strike. Any social interaction that comes with it is just icing on the cake.

And yes. The vast majority of the online gaming community ARE jerks. You're lucky to find a game with a civil person playing in it to befriend.

My entire point is that while it IS important and a major part of online gaming, the MAIN REASON any of us plays online is to PLAY A GAME ONLINE. Anything that comes with it, be it chat, friends list, or stat tracking is superfluous and nice to have, but not NECESSARY to play the game online.

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Dark Jaguar

I guess the thing is I don't just consider the social aspect icing, I consider it more like the flour.

If all I wanted to do was play a game, I'd play single player. When I play online, it isn't just to play the game, though that's part of it. The main reason I play a game online is the people.

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Great Rumbler

Man, it's always something with you guys, isn't it? First it was "oh, there's no reason to get excited because Nintendo doesn't care about online and they'd NEVER put it in SSBB" and now it's "oh, Nintendo hates online and so they'd NEVER put in the elements that I need in order to enjoy online play".

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Dark Jaguar

Thanks for completely misrepresenting my argument. Nice to know you bother to remember what I've actually said...

ABF's the one who said they'd never put online in there. I actually thought Nintendo was telling the truth and I was just wary of how they'd implement it. I don't think either of those... things. Seriously, do you ever read my posts? Do you run everything I say through some cognitive filter to make it the worst possible opinion I could possibly have? No really, I have no idea how you could have got that from what I said. It's like you read up until the first thing you disagree with and assume the rest.

At any rate, to lighten the mood I'll offer this:

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EdenMaster

As I said. No AI or bot in a game today can match playing against a real person.

But I'm done talking about this. ABF is stubborn and missing out, and that's that. I'm not going any further with this OB!-esque argument when there is little point. Can we get back to Brawl news now?

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Sacred Jellybean

Excite Bike and Lakitu assist trophies! Landmaster final smash for Fox! Adventure Mode co-op! Hurray!

I wonder if they'll put in online co-op? Would that be wishful thinking?

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A Black Falcon

Yeah, I wasn't sure if they'd bother, but instead they just implemented it in a way that it's just about irrelevant. Oh well, I didn't expect any better...

No, he was just acting like you were saying the exact same thing I was, which as you say isn't really true...

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Dark Jaguar

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/sonic.html

And here's another confirmed 3rd party character. Mario and Sonic have had like a billion rivals, and now finally they face their greatest, each other! This does basically mean one thing. That lackluster looking Olympics game? No need to get that any more (unless it ends up actually good).

Still though, I must know! Megaman? Teh Man of Mega? Will he be there? And, Simon Belmont? He should totally be there too! You know it to be true.

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Dark Jaguar

EM, I would have thought so but apparently online co-op is in!

http://wii.ign.com/articles/826/826130p1.html

Still though, I have to wonder how well it'll work if you can't communicate with the other person. I can just imagine playing co-op Halo 3 without communication, and it burns us.

Nintendo says they want to support online more, but from the sound of it they seem to mean technical support.

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Great Rumbler

MEGATON

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Sacred Jellybean

Ho-lee shit... who would have guessed a few years back that the Smash Bros. sequel would include Solid Snake and Sonic? This is like a dream come true.

I bet his Final Smash will be Blast Processing.

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Dark Jaguar

If you watch the video, you shall see his final smash yourself.

7 Chaos Emeralds, Super Sonic! Sure he's not quite Hyper Sonic, with 7 Super Chaos Emeralds, but that's not needed.

Ooh! Put Bart in there, so Mario Sonic and DK can convince him to steal a video game!

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"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

Bo Jackson

boy I am so shocked at this announcement. NOE, eh? lol

Dark Jaguar

NOE?

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A Black Falcon

My response to this is obvious... it won't work that well. Ever play the 2-player co-op boss rush online mode in Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin? Plenty of fun in one player or two player local wireless (where you can talk to the other player), but kind of stupid online...

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EdenMaster

Just...leave.

Well this is hugeness. Sonic was kind of a shoo-in. He had the most votes on Sakurai's suggestion site, and I'm fairly certain there are STILL people trying to unlock him in Melee by beating 20 Cruel opponents.

Huzzah! This game just keeps getting better and better.

You know? It's less than two months away. That means it's COUNTDOWN TIME!

54 Days!

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A Black Falcon

It was just delayed in Japan to mid-January, but not in the US, so far at least. It's less important to get it out before Christmas there...

As for Sonic, yeah, it's not surprising. I don't think it's that big a deal either, though... nice to see, sure. Big deal? Nah. The character selection is already pretty varied... (though I do have to note that so far the only newly announced female character is Zero Suit Samus, who isn't really a new character...) I wonder if the persistent rumors of Mega Man showing up in the game will come true too?

I'm not criticizing the game because I think it'll be bad or something, I'm sure it'll be a fantastic game... but it is okay to criticize bad parts of good games, EM, and the online part of this game, along with every other online game Nintendo has made so far on the Wii and DS, is bad at minimum and awful at worst. Excusing them for that would be wrong.

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EdenMaster

I'm not saying you'll think the game is going to be bad. If you thought that I would have come to your house and put you out of your misery long ago .

I'm not arguing on the online play anymore, you're obviously not going to budge.

My problem is with, upon hearing nothing but the smallest confirmation of such a feature, you're already damning it.

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A Black Falcon

Smallest confirmation? They laid out exactly how the system is going to work, and it actually went beyond my worst fears for what I thought they would do if they did online in the game (which I was, of course, skeptical about)... that is to say, I'd never have guessed that they'd actually REMOVE USERNAMES from the non-friends mode!

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Dark Jaguar

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2007...the-us/#respond

Looks like the US version is getting delayed too, but really that's to be expected. Why would they only delay the Japanese version? If it had to be delayed because it was incomplete, well of course the US version would ALSO not be complete at that time.

Oh well, Mario Galaxy should suffice in the mean time. This also allows even more characters to be added. I'm still hoping for Megaman or Simon Belmont (or both). Simon Belmont is much more likely of course, since Nintendo is already working with Konami (and the fact is, Castlevania certainly fits in more with stuff like Zelda and Metroid than Solid Snake does). Megaman I can imagine lots of people begging for and I know Capcom has worked close with Nintendo before on Zelda games. Maybe Capcom would be up for it, but that's less likely. Still, I'd love for it to happen. They could get Namco to allow Pacman in there too, again though, off chance.

The biggest off chance, but one that would really make this closer to a "universal" gaming match up extravaganza, something from Square-Enix. I'm thinking some random Final Fantasy character (they did put a bunch of Final Fantasy "class representatives" into that Mario Basketball game), or maybe Sora, who fits into a "crossover" universe more than anyone possibly could.

And of course, I can't be accused of proper wishful thinking without mentioning Little Mac.

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Sacred Jellybean

It was a joke. "Blast Processing" was a loaded marketing term used by Sega to promote the Genesis. It's become a meme of sorts since. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_Processing

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Dark Jaguar

Yeah I remember the ad campaign. I haven't seen it all "i'm in yer base, sending your zigs" style plastered on the net though.

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"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." ~ Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

EdenMaster

We don't have an emoticon that looks nearly frustrated enough.

*sigh*

Well if more characters are on the horizon, I do remember hearing that from Sakurai's suggestion site, the second most requested character was King Dedede, after Sonic. So maybe he's being added too. But still.

*place non-existant emoticon here*

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Dark Jaguar

For those that don't play much SSBM against other humans or just don't have much practice, I introduce this. Basically it's a very nicely put together video tutorial of all those advanced moves that you'd normally have to read instructions on.



I'm not sure how much of this will translate to Brawl, but the idea is to give some people here a chance to learn some new techniques.

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Dark Jaguar

Why are ya frustrated EM? Lack of Geno?

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EdenMaster

Lack of game.

Oh, and patience.

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EdenMaster

Well, he's not playable, but he's an Assist Trophy. Little Mac is in!

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Dark Jaguar

Little Mac... LITTLE MAC! HE'S IN! HE CAN DO IT!

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/item...t/assist10.html

As an assist trophy? Don't tease me like that! Waaaaah!

Edit: That's in response to the writer of that article on the site, not EM. His post went up while I was typing mine so I didn't even see it.

Well it's certainly something at least. Still, for someone just so perfectly suited to a fighting game you'd think he would be a playable character.

Well we now know about where he comes in. Next up, where's the Mega? Where's the Belmont?

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Great Rumbler

Live-action SSBB? Or drug-induced nightmare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng6Rbja9TNY

You decide.

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Sacred Jellybean

What? They're not doing moves based on the actual characters' moves?

Booooooo. Good premise, bad execution. They got 43 seconds of my attention, but not a millisecond more.

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