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Tue, January 21st, 2003   #1
A Black Falcon
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Default Rom Sites (links)

The only problem with rom sites is that they keep dissappearing... either the owners shut them down because of bandwidth, or game companies force them to shut down... so often good rom sites die. I've seen it happen to several rom sites I once used to get a lot of roms from...

Anyway, here are most of my bookmarked emulation-related sites.

Emulation Sites (no roms)

http://www.zophar.net - huge, great emulation site. Other than its up to date emulation news, it has HUGE numbers of translation patches and IPS patching utilities, game music soundtracks and soundtrack players/plugins, lots of emulators, public domain roms, etc... no commerical roms, but still very useful site.

www.arcadeathome.com - no roms, but it has emulators and a forum that has plenty of rom links there, if you look around them. I've found links from that forum pretty useful.

http://www.smiff.clara.net - N64 Emulation Help site... very useful for getting N64 emulation going on your system.

http://haggar.emuunlim.com - Has others stuff too, but main thing is Capcom CPS2 (arcade system) XORs. They let you play CPS2 roms, which otherwise don't work.

http://www.phuck-ign.net - no roms, but a good list of rom site links. (on the Links page)

Emulators - Official Webpages

http://www.zsnes.com - SNES. I sure hope you know about this one...

http://www.pj64.net - official site for Project 64 Emulator, the best N64 emulator.

http://gens.consolemul.com - Gens Genesis/32X (with 32X Bios, not found there), and Sega CD emulator.

http://fceultra.sourceforge.net - FCE Ultra (NES Emulator) website

http://vboy.emuhq.com - The best GB/GBC/GBA Emulator. Only one real flaw - no link cable (multiplayer) support. Still, it does everything else the best.

http://pt.emuunlim.com - Project Tempest -- the first real working Jaguar emulator. Not finished yet (its now at ver. 0.4), so many games don't work, but its all there is for Jaguar emulation.

http://nebula.emulatronia.com - Nebula official site (Neo-Geo/CPS1/CPS2 emulator. Runs MAME/Kawaks/Nebula-format Neo Geo roms.)

Sites with Roms

http://www.filemirrors.com - useful. It finds mirrors for many files, provided you know the name of what you are searching for. Many of them are often dead links, but still stuff can be found there if you can't find it elsewhere. Downloads are often pretty slow.

http://www.planetemu.net - Yes, it is in French, and has more European-version roms than most emu sites, but still, its a very good currently functional roms site. The downside? One download at a time, and it forces you to wait a while between downloads, too.

http://www.emugateway.com - Good Neo-Geo emu/rom site. Relatively small collection of Neo-Geo roms, but they all work and its a good place to get some, if you're waiting for the slow downloads at Filemirrors or Planetemu's forced wait times. Oh, and it has NeoRAGEx .07hack to download, and thats my favorite Neo Geo emulator.... its better than the final official release (.6) or the .8 hack.

http://www.classicgaming.com - Has a good selection of roms for old systems (no new systems here). Good, though not up to date (for example it has no newer Neo Geo roms) collection. However, it downloads from FilePlanet so you've usually got those terrible wait times FilePlanet has...

Rom Sites -- with few currently working roms

http://www.emuparadise.org - It was once MUCH better, but now its mostly broken links. The Jaguar games currently work... most of the time. I've had some fail midway. Most other systems don't right now.

http://www.emureactor.net - Another site whose roms are currently offline. This one has all of them gone right now... but at least for this one they say so...

http://neodump.cjb.net - very few of the roms are actually available. A couple do, though.

http://www.edgeemu.com - I've never been able to get this site to actually download anything... maybe others here might have better luck or something...
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Wed, January 22nd, 2003   #2
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Do any of you know of ROM sites that have some sort of explanation explaining why they consider it okay to offer these games? I'm looking for some research for a paper I have to right soon.
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Thu, January 23rd, 2003   #3
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Here's what I wonder. Why would they be breaking the law even though all it does is NO profit for them and increase chances they could be arrested? It's almost like they think they are doing something moral...

In any case, here's all the explanations I've heard.
Quote:
"If you do not delete these files within 24 hours, you are breaking the law. These are ONLY for testing!"

The above is a classic, even though there IS no 24 hour law. You download those files you are already breaking the law, there is no test period.
Quote:
These games are no longer being made, so we are doing a favor by releasing this "vaporware" so that others may enjoy these games like we did. The companies are not making any profit that could be denied by us releasing these old out of print games.

First off, I always find it amusing that they have to explain away all the moral problems each and every time I see this explanation. It's never partial, it's always complete. It's like the explanation is for them more than us.

Second, I'm afraid that releasing old ROMs with the defense that the companies aren't making money off them any more isn't valid, especially now in the era of the GBA. Now they certainly are making money off old out of print games, money they could easily be deprived of if people decide not to buy the new game because they already downloaded the older version. Games like Final Fantasy 1-6, all the classic 2D Mario games, and various other assorted games from across the map, are all having money made off of them. N64 games too are being released all over again, thus games like Zelda OOT are hardly out of print. (True, Zelda OOT is right now a limited edition bonus disk, but do you honestly think Nintendo is stupid enough not to sell it seperatly after the preorder deal?)
Quote:
Sure, some of these are still in print, but we feel that most of the people that download these games are just trying them out, and if they like them enough, they will pay for it.

This is for those people who download games that are still being made and sold as we speak.

First off, they don't seem to mention the games that aren't liked enough to be "worthy of payment" but for some reason were never deleted from that person's computer.

Second, seriously, how is this an excuse? This isn't a frickin' pizza order here. Nintendo never said "your satisfaction is promised or your money back". That's not even something that all companies should be forced to do. "Let the buyer be ware". If you want to test a game, either find someone who has it already and ask to play it for a bit or rent it! I just wait for the day someone actually tries to sue a game company because the game is malfunctioning, as in, it sucks too much to play.
Quote:
Many purchases can actually be traced TO us providing this content! We have given companies sales thanks to people testing these games and liking them enough to buy them.

Let's assume this claim is true. How does that excuse the piracy? They could have tested it other ways.

Now let's look at the claim and ask how they know it's true. What studies have they done to proove this? How were the studies performed, using proper logic and scientific methods? How many is "many"? I submit that any and all e-mails from people saying "I bought it because I liked it when I downloaded the rom" could very well be from liars, faked for proof on their part, or any other situation. Let's also ask how many of these e-mails they may have recieved as their evidence they have. One or two? A dozen? Anywhere NEAR as many as the number of downloads from that site? Any "Infering" they do beyond that is not scientific proof, not that the mail itself is that valid either, since e-mail is a very dumb medium that really can be faked and can't be prooved to come from anywhere.
Quote:
I'm not going to be defending this at all. I want to get this stuff, and it's easier to get it for free. I just want to okay?

I like this explanation because it's honest, to themselves and to me. At least they aren't making up any stuff to make it sound moral and just. Now I can attack the whole theft thing directly without the justification thing to get in the way. Of course, those that think this usually are too stubborn to be convinced to stop, but hey they are easy to spot in the mall and avoid.
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Thu, January 23rd, 2003   #4
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Quote:
Second, I'm afraid that releasing old ROMs with the defense that the companies aren't making money off them any more isn't valid, especially now in the era of the GBA. Now they certainly are making money off old out of print games, money they could easily be deprived of if people decide not to buy the new game because they already downloaded the older version. Games like Final Fantasy 1-6, all the classic 2D Mario games, and various other assorted games from across the map, are all having money made off of them. N64 games too are being released all over again, thus games like Zelda OOT are hardly out of print. (True, Zelda OOT is right now a limited edition bonus disk, but do you honestly think Nintendo is stupid enough not to sell it seperatly after the preorder deal?)

Well, that may be the case with Nintendo and Sega, but what about companies that are defunct and no longer in the business? There are literally dozens of consoles that were released in the industry's first boom, many of them are extremely obscure, and none of them were made by companies who still participate in videogaming. It's an extreme rarity for games from those old systems to be re-released, and the rare titles on those consoles are not marketed in any way whatsoever. However, copyrights still protect these games, and for some reason these companies who no longer even make attempts to make a profit from their properties will still take the time to go after providers of ROMs of their games.

Even with Nintendo and Sega, the only games that will ever be re-released are the most popular ones of their day. The obscure and rare titles will never see the light of day again. It's for this reason that I think Nintendo is full of shit with their anti-emulation crusade, to say nothing of just how WRONG it is to charge $30 for indivual games that are miniscule in filesize and over a decade in age. I could see them having a case if they go after people trying to sell these ROMS for money, but you almost never see that, so frankly, I don't see what ROMS of games they no longer sell does to them, if they have no intention of making money off of them. It's technically stealing, but it's not as though Nintendo's losing money every time someone downloads a copy of Zelda II. It's not as though someone's actually removing stock from them, they're trading what they cannot buy.

Finally, if I remember correctly, you are entitled to possess ROMs of games you own. Even though Nintendo says otherwise, I don't believe the law agrees on that statement.
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Thu, January 23rd, 2003   #5
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Wow, DJ! Do you want to write a paper? Could you just give me a quick link of the sites you found those quotes at? I don't need direct links to the quotes cause that will take too long, but I gotta cite my sources, ya know. THANKS!
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Thu, January 23rd, 2003   #6
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Thing is, I found these at message boards mainly, and a few at some ROM sites I've seen.

Hmm, as for links, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to be mean by providing this one: www.tendocity.net Some of our own members there provided quotes like the "I don't care" one.

Oh, maybe instead of using the quote box, I should have said paraphrase .

Anyway, I could do a random search for a site to find the 24 hour rule thing. As far as I know, that's still a common excuse.

The rest of it is pretty much message board quotes.

www.ffwa.org has one message board I think I read a lot of them at. Check the forums for FF1-4, FF5, and FF6. No, I don't know why the first 4 are grouped and the rest are seperated into their own forum, but that's the way it is.

If I think of any further links I can provide, I will. I'm sure that more than a few of those excuses have been put on actual rom sites.

Oh and Weltall, yes you are correct. People ARE fully entitled to possess ROMs of any game they own, unless they actually signed a contract in opening or installing that game. Old PC games had such open agreements, but not a single console game has had such an agreement. Nintendo doesn't say it's actually illegal if you pay attention, but they are great at scare tactics. First they say "don't make illegal copies", which doens't say all copies are illegal, but if you make a copy, do it the legal way. Then they say "any copies made are NOT autherized", which can easily fool a person into thinking it's not legal by the law, when in fact the wording only says Nintendo doesn't authorize it. The law is clear enough that you can own backups of anything you own. Of course, there is one rule to owning backup copies. You can only be playing ONE copy at any time. That way, it's exactly the same as owning just one, which you do.

Anyway, with that in mind, I enter contests with whatever NES games I actually own.
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Fri, January 24th, 2003   #7
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Any emulation site with games that are currently on the market has no REAL excuse. You see "24 hours" or "only if you own the game", but everyone knows no one actually follows that... its just an excuse...

However, I agree with Weltall. There are a LOT of old games that will NEVER see the light of day again. Those, like PC Abandonware (games that developers don't sell anymore but you still want to play) are technically illegal but I have no problem at all with it... its not like there is any other way of playing those games.

http://www.the-underdogs.org/faq.php#a3
Oh, BTW, on the Abandonware issue, this link is pretty good. Read that answer and the next one. Then they have four links... the first one is to a good article at Moby Games. ( http://www.mobygames.com/featured_article/feature=7/ ). Read that too, if you want. The Underdogs is site with LOTS of abandonware games (more than any other abandonware site I've found, by FAR)... but unlike most abandonware sites, they are responsible and only give downloads for games that are actually not sold anywhere... many "abandonware" sites have downloads for lots of old games that are actually still being sold. Thats just Warez with a different name... but this one only have non-available games. I fully support that as well. If the developer (or a reseller) isn't selling it I want some way to be able to play it... and I won't otherwise. Nor will anyone else. That's why the IDSA and other group's attempts to kill abandonware sites is so awful, IMO... yes, I do understand why. They want to keep their intellectual property theirs. However, it isn't nice to the consumers to not allow people to have games... so I like those sites. Same for Classicgaming ( http://www.classicgaming.com ). That site only has old, out of print systems... no NES, SNES, or anything newer than that. The newest ones they have are Sega Master System, some arcade games, and (only older) Neo Geo games... and lots of older systems. Not as attractive to people wanting Roms, but it avoids pretty much any issues over if the games are still for sale somewhere...

Oh, and as for me, I download roms because I don't have most of those systems. The only systems I have for consoles, after all, are GB, GBC, and N64... and I want to play the older ones, and don't have any way to. I have no money to buy old systems, and even if I did have the money I'd rather spend it on newer games... I do buy a lot of games (I already have gotten as presents and/or bought 8 games since Christmas), and find 2 platforms more than spends the money I have (PC and NGC), so if I want to play anything else, emulation is the only way.

Not to mention that most of the games I have would be very very hard to find. Oh, and a lot (most, I'm sure) of them are ones I would never buy if they cost money... Also, for systems I do have (GBC and N64), having the rom doesn't mean I won't someday get the game (like how I recently bought Banjo-Tooie). Why? Emulated console games just don't look or play as well on PCs as they do on consoles... N64 looks sharper on a PC screen, but overall the games look far better on a TV. And Game Boy just isn't meant for PC monitors.
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Fri, January 24th, 2003   #8
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Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.
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Sat, January 25th, 2003   #9
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If it wasn't for emulation, I never would have heard of or even played the game Kung-fu, which was introduced to me by Weltall through our first emulation contest. So what is significant about that? Tendocity's culture benefited from it. It gave us something fun and different to do. How the fuck can you say that has HURT Nintendo??? If anything, it opened up people (myself included) to a long lost game that now has recognition and is more likely to be purchased. You won't buy a product if you don't know that it exists. There's a whole industry based on this conundrum know as advertising.

But I can't even buy Kung-fu unless Nintendo decides to re-release it. Sure, I might find it for 10 bucks from some place that sells used games, but the game is not worth that. First I'd have to look for it, then pay too much for it, then remember I don't have an NES anymore, then go out and buy a used one that barely works for 20 bucks, then finally play it. Now when patting myself on the back for being such a moral person, I think of how greedy Nintendo is for making me pay 10 dollars for a 30-cent game and enjoy the game much less than I normally would.

But let's say Nintendo releases a "20 crappy games we've made that you've probably never heard of" collection for the GBA. You can bet people are going to buy it. Even those who have all the roms to those games. "Why would you do that?", you ask? Because it's now portable, it's official, and it'd just cool to have it! Sure, not everyone is going to buy it when they can just use an emulator, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who DO.

I get ROMs because I want to play games at a convenience. People would say that makes me sound selfish. But it's the company's responsibility to make it a convenience for you. When a product is no longer in production and is difficult to acquire, why should I give them my so much of my hard-earned cash? I know people work hard on these games, but when a company no longer supports that product, it it their fault and not the consumers'.

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Sat, January 25th, 2003   #10
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Against the law to play video games, what is this, Greece?

Nobody (except for those paranoid people who are SURE that the government is watching their every move) deletes ROMs after 24 hours. Hell, there are ROMs on my hard drive that I've had for over 24 MONTHS. It's not hurting anyone.
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Sat, January 25th, 2003   #11
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Some clarification. When you buy a game at a used game shop, NONE of that money goes to the game makers. Nintendo didn't jack the price of what you percieve to be a 30 cent game to 10 dollars, supply and demand did. If you don't think it's worth whatever the shop itself set the price at, then don't buy it.
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Sun, January 26th, 2003   #12
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I wasn't sure if re-sellers had to pay liscensing fees or not. Thanks for the clarification, DJ. My mistake.
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #13
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Where can I get some GBA ROMS? I just want to try out a few titles to see if I want to buy them. It's easier than renting.
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #14
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Nah, reselling doesn't require a liscensing fee. You know how lots of food products have a big "not for resale" stamp on them? That's to keep them from being sued if someone eats the can of used sliced beets some person bought and kept in the back seat of their car for 17 years and gets a bit ill. Now renting requires a liscensing fee, because that's constant revenue off something instead of a one time and then you have no more right to it deal.
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #15
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You have a cat?
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #16
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Yes, in fact I also have another cat, which means on top of having 1 cat, I also own 2 cats in total.
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #17
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Total Raisin Bran?
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #18
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DeJap is a very important site for everyone that has roms.

Roms sites just aren't what they used to be...
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #19
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OB1, if you really want to use ROMS to test GBA games, just use your common sense. It's only really useful for non-action games, like Advance Wars, because playing a GBA game with a keyboard isn't like playing a GBA. I "tried out" Super Metroid with an emulator and I hated it. Yet I love Fusion, and would probably like Metroid too. It's just the whole experience. So don't discount a game until you've actually played it, or you might miss out on another Metroid.
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #20
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Game Boy games on PC just don't work out well. I now do have a great gamepad, but playing Gameboy games on PC is as unrewarding as it ever has been... yet some of the same games are great on a standard GB. I think its the format... they are meant to be on a GB. At least with TV-based systems, its meant to be played with a gamepad (assuming you spend the $20 it costs to get a good one) and on a big screen so it works a lot better...

Also, it is definitely true that rom sites are in decline... it used to be a LOT easier to find roms and most sites had working links. Now lots are gone and more don't work... it makes finding roms tougher and makes it actually requrire effort. I still don't know of a good, currently working GBA roms site... I found a few in the past but they all go down... and I wish I could find a site with working downloads to Sega CD games...

If you do make the effort, still some of those links are helpful... I've found the arcadeathome forums can be good for some stuff, and the links at some of those pages I linked have some good sites on them.

If you want Neo-Geo, its easy... Classicgaming and Emu Gateway together have a very nice collection...

Also, Filemirrors is great... with one caveat. You have to know EXACTLY what you are searching for. The search is very close on focus and you really do need to know most of the filename (or most of the beginning of it) to get what you want. Then try the links and hope 1) that the link works and 2) that the rom is good.
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #21
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Whitey: Thanks for the lesson. I don't plan on using a mouse and keyboard to test out GBA game.
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Mon, February 3rd, 2003   #22
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Know of any good Saturn emulators? I'm dying to play Panzer Saga.
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Thu, February 6th, 2003   #23
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I don't know if there are any... you could look around the sites linked here, but don't get your hopes up too much, I'd say. But maybe one of those would help.
http://www.zophar.net/saturn.html
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Mon, February 10th, 2003   #24
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Getting back to the topic of ROM sites...

Cherryroms is very, very reliable, and good for SNES roms. However, it does not offer ROMs that are protected under ISDA law (whatever that means).

GbxEmu.com is a pretty good site for GBA roms and it also has GB and GBC roms there too.

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Mon, February 17th, 2003   #25
A Black Falcon
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Should this be made a sticky?
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