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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #1
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Default A thread ruined by ABF Vol. XXXVIII (So who's getting a PSP this month?)

Wipeout Pure looks awesome, but other than that I don't care much about the launch lineup...
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #2
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Yeah well you also didn't care enough about RE4 to get it.

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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #3
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And that matters how? I'm not the biggest RE fan in the world, you know (they're fine games, sure, but I don't run out to get them... just have RE2 for N64, and I only got that because it was $10...), while I definitely like the WIpeout series.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #4
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I'm just saying that you not having interest in a game doesn't mean much to anyone but you, since you have, well... different tastes.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #5
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What, exactly, did my saying "Wipeout Pure looks cool" do to deserve "well you're an idiot who likes stupid games" (you know that's what you meant, you've stated it as such multiple times before)? Other than your well-known desperate need to insult me every time i post, that is.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #6
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Quote:
Wipeout Pure looks awesome, but other than that I don't care much about the launch lineup...

Think, Einstein, think.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #7
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Metal Gear Acid, you mean? Could be fine, but a Metal Gear tactical strategy game seems a bit weird...
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #8
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So did a turn-based Mario rpg.

And what about Lumines? It's a terrific puzzle game, possibly the best game on the system.

Quote:
9 Presentation

Tetsuya Mizuguchi is known for putting together as much an experience as a game, and Lumines is no less the whole trip for being a launch game on Sony's new handheld.

8 Graphics

The shape and the sound of puzzle gaming is rarely the focus, but Q Entertainment fused the external design to the gaming experience here with great care.

9 Sound

Even for those who have no desire to dance to this music, the selection of tracks and the variety of music is mondo engrossing.

9 Gameplay

A brand new concept in puzzle gaming, Lumines is an earnest addiction that's elegantly simple and disarmingly challenging.

8 Lasting Appeal

A few missing options hurt the appeal of playing it too often, but it's a very diggable puzzle game that you can pick back up years from now and enjoy.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #9
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True.

But I'm sure that the standard for sci-fi tactical strategy games will continue to be the same game it's been for over a decade now: X-Com: UFO Assualt.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #10
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Yeah MGA is just like that...
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #11
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They're both sci-fi tactical strategy games, anyway. It's not MG:A's fault if it can't compete with one of the greatest strategy games of all time. (yes, I know you meant something else... but they ARE both tactical strategy...)
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #12
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Yeah, X-Com is totally a card-based console strategy game...


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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #13
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Console or PC Is irrelevant for genres... it's game style that matters. And yes, they are different. But in both you move people around a map, with a tile-based overhead perspective, in order to find, shoot, and kill the baddies. Using strategic controls, not action controls.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #14
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What the hell are you talking about?
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #15
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If it's so different from other tactical strategy games, explain how so.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #16
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WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT XCOM IN A PSP THREAD???

You are so damn weird.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #17
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MGS is a tactical strategy game. Hmm... I have NO IDEA why I should talk about other tactical strategy games!
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #18
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You said that MGA is just going to be the same as XCom... do you know anything about the game?

It was so nice here when you were gone...
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #19
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What did I say about comprehension? One of these years you'll admit it...
Quote:
But I'm sure that the standard for sci-fi tactical strategy games will continue to be the same game it's been for over a decade now: X-Com: UFO Assualt.

Means what it says. "Tactical strategy" is a broad subgenre. It's not one specific way of doing things. So two games can be comparable while also being distinct while being within the same subgenre. Just like every other subgenre. It's not very hard to understand.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #20
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Which has NOTHING to do with this thread.

I'm really thinking about blocking your posts for a long while... I can't stand idiots.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #21
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How, exactly, does discussing a game that is coming out on PSP have nothing to do with the PSP? I'd love to hear your explanation of THAT one...
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #22
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You weren't talking about a PSP game, you were talking about a PC game in a completely different genre.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #23
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No, it's in the same genre. Otherwise why would I have talked about it in relation to MGA?
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #24
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I dunno, because you're nuts, maybe? Yeah I think that's pretty much it.

I never knew that X-Com was a card-based strategy/adventure game though. That's pretty interesting.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #25
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So Baten Kaitos isn't an RPG because it uses cards? Or Lost Kingdoms an action/RPG? Thanks, I never knew that... Cards in games like these are just the medium to make the game a bit different from its genre-mates, not something that puts it into a totally different genre.

Honestly, can't you see how ridiculous this "complaint" of yours is? Have you even PLAYED X-Com?
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #26
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Have YOU played Metal Gear Acid? Do you even KNOW how it plays? It's a card-based strategy game that it also a Japanese graphic adventure game. If you think that's in the same genre as X-Com then you're, well, ABF.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #27
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Have you played X-Com? Just answer the question!
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #28
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No. But I know what kind of game it is. I know that's it's very popular.

And I know that it's not card-based or a graphic adventure game.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #29
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What do you keep telling others not to do, OB1? Oh yeah, that's judge games without playing them.

http://psp.ign.com/articles/583/583313p1.html

Metal Gear Acid does have cards, and a story (I very highly doubt that it's a graphic adventure. That means Monkey Island or TLJ. What the game does have is a story, told through animated cutscenes.). But what it is primarially, as this preview makes clear, is a TACTICAL STRATEGY GAME. That is, a small-unit (in this case a unit of one) strategy game where you carefully plan every move, using some interface. Where you have indirect, not direct, control of your characters.

Yes, the fact that this game uses cards as a way of randomizing what actions you can make and when you can make them, and limiting total actions, is different from other titles in the genre. So it's not quite the typical tactical strategy game, or even the typical console-style tactical strategy game (think Fire Emblem (though that's also not your typical console tactical strategy game), Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Force, Disagaea, etc), but it IS in that subgenre. No question.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #30
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When did i judge the game? I just said that it's not like MGA.

And you know nothing about MGA. Tim Rogers, the guy from insertcredit (who lives in Japan and is the biggest Metal Gear fan that I know of), told me this about the game:
Quote:

Kojima still believes his most brilliant invention so far was putting
Meryl's codec frequency only on the back of the CD case.

It's only a matter of time before he returns to the adventure genre.
So he says. His pick for game of the year 2004, he told me a few
weeks back, remains "Gyakuten Saiban 3." So!!

Good things might happen.

And Metal Gear Ac!d is, well, kind of trippy. No pun intended. It
is, effectively, a Japanese graphic adventure game, with a card-
collecting flavor.

So sorry, but you're wrong yet again. And "graphic adventure" does not just mean Monkey Island or TLJ. They make them in other countries, too, you philistine.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #31
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Default So who's getting a PSP this month?

You go too far. Your hot-headedness has again gotten ahead of your initial good sense, OB1! Take a deep breath or something and think... otherwise this discussion is essentially over.





Here is what an actual hands-on preview of the US version has to say about the gameplay.

http://psp.ign.com/articles/583/583313p1.html?fromint=1
Quote:
What the creators of this game want you to understand is that, despite the shift to a new play style, this is still Metal Gear to the core. Konami had the first English language version of the game at its Gamer's Day event to prove this point. The setting is tangential, the control is totally different, and yet, once you go looking, you will find a Metal Gear threatening to conquer gamers yet again.

When you break down the gameplay of a Metal Gear game to the metal, you will find some of the locked-in elements that make this a fine series for a card battler. Enemy AI gets brilliant when it needs to track you down and cease your life, but the majority of play in a Metal Gear game is spent analyzing the patrol routes of enemies and sneaking past leaks in their defenses. Metal Gear Acid simply takes the directional control and the tension of making a controller slip too soon out of the picture.

Instead, Metal Gear Acid has a deck of cards dealt to you on each room of a stage. These cards have specific values for a given technique -- a SOCOM or FAMAS weapon card will allow you to open fire on an enemy, while Ration cards allow healing -- but you can and often will have to sacrifice cards for movement across the stage. You'll want to keep your best cards for when the action gets heavy, but every card has the potential to be useful in certain circumstances, so choose wisely from your deck every time you pull. And don't forget that each card has a value for use, which delays how long a player must wait out while the enemy makes its own maneuvers -- if you're expecting to run and gun with your biggest cards all through the game, you'll be out-timed, outwitted, and out of life long before you learn your lesson.

Tactical techniques from the Metal Gear series have made their way intact to the PSP strategy game. After every move, Snake will have the ability to either stand ready or crouch out of sight as he awaits his next move. Snake can also flatten against walls and other barriers, and can knock on the wall to attract guards towards traps or lure them away from guarded areas. Snake can also make very complicated maneuvers by putting certain cards together in a combo -- for instance, if he tosses a grenade into a crowd of enemies, then quickly uses a few pistol shots to detonate the explosive, there will be no danger from the other soldiers since they have been blown up before it is their turn to react.

And the story.
Quote:
As far as the story goes, diehard may have trouble adjusting to this game's narrative concept than they will to the peculiar action. This is precious ground that the team is treading across, and it is doing it as a side-story officially not connected to the real MGS storyline. Fortunately, the ability to play the game in English for the first time at Konami's event allowed us to settle into the break-away style and story concepts more comfortably. It helped that we've already been conditioned for something very different from our experience with the previous handheld Metal Gear Solid on GBC -- that game felt like the Metal Gear story and included many of the characters familiar to fans, but it really was its own entity that continued on in something of an alternate universe from the real MGS series. Metal Gear Acid plays out much the same way, using the ending of the first PlayStation MGS as a jumping-off point for a story that takes its own trip through its own version of what would be Snake's never-ending call to duty instead of peaceful retirement.

The story is played out through animated cut-scenes and striking, almost cartoonish caricatures of the game's regulars -- it's a far break from the ultra-realism of the franchise proper (and is also missing MGS's familiar voiceovers), but in the context of the game itself, the art style is distinct and memorable, and the animated Flash-style cutscenes pack a unique impact. Telling of an airplane hijacking that has given hostages command over a presidential candidate, the story feels less epic than past Metal Gear infiltrations, but the themes of the series quickly rear up, and the way these animatics intercut with the 3D action in the opening scenes we were privy to in this early demo gave the game a style all its own that still felt right for the franchise.

So where does this comment fit in?
Quote:
And Metal Gear Ac!d is, well, kind of trippy. No pun intended. It
is, effectively, a Japanese graphic adventure game, with a card-
collecting flavor.

I'd say that it fits in as a description of the kind of story you would find in this game... or the kind of story-telling. I very much doubt that MGA actually PLAYS like a graphic adventure, given how it is described to play as a unique brand of tactical strategy game. But it's certainly plausible, given the MGS games, that the game presents its story in the way a graphic adventure might... that's definitely what I'd take that statement to mean. Not 'graphic adventure' in the sense that it is a graphic adventure game.

On that topic, sorry, but there IS a definite definition of the graphic adventure. It's not a nation-specific one, either... sure, Monkey Island is American, but TLJ is from a team in Finland. Japan? I know they make interactive stories, but they never release them here... but that's the same thing (one Japanese graphic adventure that DID come out over here would be Snatcher, by the way. Or how about Another on the DS?). You go through a story (most often told with dialogue,sometimes by other means), making choices and solving puzzles (of the logic (ex: a sliding tile puzzle) and/or inventory (ex: "find the wrench in the kitchen, add it to your inventory, and use it on the bolt in the attic loft") varieties) along the way. There usually isn't any action and if there is it's almost always minimal or can be avoided.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #32
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The funny about this is that Tim Rogers knows a little bit more about Metal Gear Acid, Japanese graphic adventure games, and well, games in general than you do. And I say "little" dripping with sarcasm. He says that it's a graphic adventure with a card-based twist (note that card-based games are strategy ones). He's right, you are wrong.

Sorry.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #33
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Have you ever even read any posts of mine or do you just write your little attacks beforehand and post them without any knowledge, or intrest, in what has acutally been said?

Given how your latest post once again demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what I've been saying, it's clearly the latter. If it wasn't so obvious that you beleieve everything you say I'd think it's funny how badly you contradict yourself...
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #34
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You posted descriptions of the game. I know very well what kind of game it is.

But Tim Rogers, who's a big fan of Japanese graphic adventure games (which can be very different from MI and even Snatcher, which is why your ignorant statement that "there's only ONE kind of graphic adventure is so laughable), has met Hideo Kojima on a number of occasions, and is in love with the Metal Gear series, says that Ac!d is "a Japanese graphic adventure game, with a card-
collecting flavor"
, and he knows a hell of a lot more about this subject than you, me, and all of IGN's staff put together. So pardon me if I don't put much stock into an ignorant fanboy's opinion on a game that he has never played that largely falls into a genre that he has never played. I'm talking about you, btw. In case you didn't get that.
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Wed, March 9th, 2005   #35
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Have you noticed yet that I haven't said he's wrong? No? Didn't think so... sigh...
Quote:
But Tim Rogers, who's a big fan of Japanese graphic adventure games (which can be very different from MI and even Snatcher, which is why your ignorant statement that "there's only ONE kind of graphic adventure is so laughable), has met Hideo Kojima on a number of occasions, and is in love with the Metal Gear series, says that Ac!d is "a Japanese graphic adventure game, with a card-
collecting flavor", and he knows a hell of a lot more about this subject than you, me, and all of IGN's staff put together. So pardon me if I don't put much stock into an ignorant fanboy's opinion on a game that he has never played that largely falls into a genre that he has never played. I'm talking about you, btw. In case you didn't get that.

I have played far more adventure games than you, of that I'm pretty sure. It isn't exactly a genre I don't know well. Sure, I haven't played Japanese-only interactive stories. Neither have you, I'm sure. But given how such games go in English, it's not hard to guess the general way such things would work... and a connection between Kojima and those makes sense because the MGS games are very heavy on the story and conversations... like an adventure game or an RPG (the two genres that are the most conversation-heavy, excepting the Myst-branch of graphic adventures of course), not an action game. Having that continue -- with changes, like the animated, somewhat cartoonish, cutscenes -- in this game makes perfect sense.

Quote:
which can be very different from MI and even Snatcher, which is why your ignorant statement that "there's only ONE kind of graphic adventure is so laughable),

There is one subgenre (of the 'adventure' genre). It has many divisions: Graphical/text ones like King's Quest I or Hugo's House of Horrors, all-graphical ones like Maniac Mansion or Grim Fandango, ones with action elements like Full Throttle and Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, logic puzzle-focused titles such as Myst and Riven, all menu-driven games like Snatcher... there are many subgenres with many differences (like how the Myst-style ones don't have much conversations, have no inventories, and usually tell their stories mostly through cutscenes and reading books in the game for backstory -- VERY different gameplay from Monkey Island, that's for sure!). But they all share common themes.
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Thu, March 10th, 2005   #36
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Nuts, lazy's posts aren't in here! From the title of the thread, it seems ABF moved it. Where'd you put lazy's posts ABF?
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Thu, March 10th, 2005   #37
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OB1 split it, of course, after ruining the thread. Ask him.
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Thu, March 10th, 2005   #38
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I only split the posts that ABF ruined, into this forum. If lazy posted in this thread they should be in MC.
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Thu, March 10th, 2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Black Falcon
Have you noticed yet that I haven't said he's wrong? No? Didn't think so... sigh...



I have played far more adventure games than you, of that I'm pretty sure. It isn't exactly a genre I don't know well. Sure, I haven't played Japanese-only interactive stories. Neither have you, I'm sure. But given how such games go in English, it's not hard to guess the general way such things would work... and a connection between Kojima and those makes sense because the MGS games are very heavy on the story and conversations... like an adventure game or an RPG (the two genres that are the most conversation-heavy, excepting the Myst-branch of graphic adventures of course), not an action game. Having that continue -- with changes, like the animated, somewhat cartoonish, cutscenes -- in this game makes perfect sense.




There is one subgenre (of the 'adventure' genre). It has many divisions: Graphical/text ones like King's Quest I or Hugo's House of Horrors, all-graphical ones like Maniac Mansion or Grim Fandango, ones with action elements like Full Throttle and Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, logic puzzle-focused titles such as Myst and Riven, all menu-driven games like Snatcher... there are many subgenres with many differences (like how the Myst-style ones don't have much conversations, have no inventories, and usually tell their stories mostly through cutscenes and reading books in the game for backstory -- VERY different gameplay from Monkey Island, that's for sure!). But they all share common themes.


I love how you can say all of this in a way that makes it sound like you think you're right, even though you're proving my point that MGA is NOT XCom.

What a fool.
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Fri, March 11th, 2005   #40
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Huh? I stopped talking about X-Com because explaining what I mean would take a while and you'd ignore me, so why in the world should I waste the effort?
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